'15 AL OL Brandon Kennedy

[SSVol]

There's what 130ish div 1 programs. Annual contenders is bama Clemson, osu, OU and maybe 1 or 2 others. Less than 1%.

Maths is super not easy.

 

[jakez4ut]

Maths is super not easy.

Ok, less than 5%. Appreciate the proof read👍

 

[Tidal Surge]

There's what 130ish div 1 programs. Annual contenders is bama Clemson, osu, OU and maybe 1 or 2 others. Less than 1%.

In a given year, the chances they have a hole big enough to be filled, by a grad transfer that's good enough to not only fill it, but also contribute significantly enough to "get richer", that wouldn't be a for sure starter at the school he's already at?

I mean it's possible. But still probably less than 1%.

But panties are in a wad because the rich actually might lose something, even if only depth.

Saban is not trying to save college football from itself. What we're talking about are grad transfers.

Not rising sophomores or juniors that get antsy about riding the pine.

Oh, gotcha now. Yeah, probably won't be a common occurrence. But using the QB example, it's common for QBs to redshirt. So, one graduating in 3 years, could have 2 years to play. And Saban was refering to schools losing their best players. If it happens it could be a costly loss to the school who loses their star starting QB, RB, WR, LB...they were counting on.

 

[jakez4ut]

Oh, gotcha now. Yeah, probably won't be a common occurrence. But using the QB example, it's common for QBs to redshirt. So, one graduating in 3 years, could have 2 years to play. If it happens it could be a costly loss to the school who loses their star starting QB, or RB or WR or LB they were counting on.

Well, it hasn't hurt bama. Not 1 time, and y'all have had sure fire clue chips leave and sit a year or go juco.

Where it hurts are programs that go through transition and see contributors leave or depth leave, or both.

And we know something about that.👍

 

[Tidal Surge]

Well, it hasn't hurt bama. Not 1 time, and y'all have had sure fire clue chips leave and sit a year or go juco.

Where it hurts are programs that go through transition and see contributors leave or depth leave, or both.

And we know something about that.👍

That's what Saban was talking about. There'll be some instances when one of the top teams will cherry pick one of the best players from a team that can't afford that hit. Also, if a program loses their HC, they might also see some of their best players who are getting their degrees in three years quickly jump ship to go with him or elsewhere.

Eta: My panties aren't in a wad. I wear boxers. And they're not in wad either. Lol. If Kennedy winds up at UT, I won't lose a wink of sleep or fret over it. I'll wish him well except on TSIOs. I'll hope those are very rough days for him and very good days for our nose tackles.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Removing blocks on grad transfers is definitely something that could be a double edged sword for any team. If Pruitt gets us back to the top of the pack in thhe SEC, then we’ll probably be in a position like Bama is in with Kennedy at some point.


Still, I’m generally in favor of rules that give a bit more agency to the guys putting their bodies on the line for our entertainment. Especially when it’s guys who’ve taken care of their academic obligations and are in position to graduate.

Also I’m not sure how many grad transfers actually end up finishing their postgraduate degree, but it’s really common for people to pursue higher education at a different school than where they earned their bachelors. It varies on the field of study and the school, of course, but generally it’s a good idea to get away from where you spent your first 4 years and pursue that next degree somewhere new.

 

[jakez4ut]

That's what Saban was talking about. There'll be some instances when one of the top teams will cherry pick one of the best players from a team that can't afford that hit. Also, if a program loses their HC, they might also see some of their best players who are getting their degrees in three years quickly jump ship to go with him or elsewhere.

Eta: My panties aren't in a wad. I wear boxers. And they're not in wad either. Lol.

The wad thing was in general, and towards Nick if it were specifically aimed somewhere.

And what hasn't hurt bama, is guys leaving.

And has bama really benefited from a grad transfer so much so that it made some huge difference to their season?

Bottom line it's just not a huge deal for top programs, from just a pure #'s standpoint.

And I think the free agency angle is just an overzealous reaction to something that probably won't matter to either program all that much in the end. He's not gonna play @ bama, we need depth on the OL, and he's graduated, and wants to play somewhere else,

It's a diversion tactic. Nothing more.

 

[Tidal Surge]

The wad thing was in general, and towards Nick if it were specifically aimed somewhere.

And what hasn't hurt bama, is guys leaving.

And has bama really benefited from a grad transfer so much so that it made some huge difference to their season?

Bottom line it's just not a huge deal for top programs, from just a pure #'s standpoint.

And I think the free agency angle is just an overzealous reaction to something that probably won't matter to either program all that much in the end. He's not gonna play @ bama, we need depth on the OL, and he's graduated, and wants to play somewhere else,

It's a diversion tactic. Nothing more.

Tbh, idk how good Kennedy is or can be. That injury last season was an unfortunate setback for him. I think he was the #2 center coming out of spring camp, behind a senior on his last year of eligibility. If so, Kennedy would've been next man up in relief and the starter if the #1 gets hurt.

But you're probably right about one thing. Barring a sudden change of heart by him, he's not going to playing at Bama anymore.

If all constraints are removed for grad transfers, it seems reasonable to me to expect that they might increase substantially. It's looking like most if not all the constraints could soon be eliminated. If so, we'll get to see what all happens as a result -- good, bad and/or ugly.

 

[jakez4ut]

Tbh, idk how good Kennedy is or can be. That injury last season was an unfortunate setback for him. I think he was the #2 center coming out of spring camp, behind a senior on his last year of eligibility. If so, Kennedy would've been next man up in relief and the starter if the #1 gets hurt.

If all constraints are removed for grad transfers, it seems reasonable to me to expect that they'll increase substantially. It's looking like most if not all the constraints could soon be eliminated. If so, we'll get to see what all happens as a result -- good, bad and/or ugly.

maybe, maybe not. there still has to be someone willing and able to take the kid. scholarship restrictions and how you count kids in a class may limit it somewhat.

and we've already seen it rise over the past few years. used to be, if you had a 4th or 5th year left, you'd stay and just re enroll, no matter if you're going for a graduate degree or not. the goal being to use up your eligibility in hopes of getting to the NFL.

seems there's some of that going on with grad transfers now. so i'm not completely naive here.

i still don't think it's an epidemic type issue, worthy of the attention it's gotten of late. and i say that as a fan of a program that has several Jucos coming in and at least 2 grad transfer players coming. but that's dictated by situation, not as an actual strategy for running a program year in and year out.

the reality is most will use up their eligibility and get their undergrad in the allotted time. those that have the opportunity will go to the NFL early, or go to the NFL versus doing a grad transfer deal.

the guys that want to transfer have two basic motives....they really want that graduate degree, or they want to make the most of the eligibilty they have left somewhere they think they can have a better opportunity.

to me, it's just that simple.

 

[jakez4ut]

Tbh, idk how good Kennedy is or can be. That injury last season was an unfortunate setback for him. I think he was the #2 center coming out of spring camp, behind a senior on his last year of eligibility. If so, Kennedy would've been next man up in relief and the starter if the #1 gets hurt.

But you're probably right about one thing. Barring a sudden change of heart by him, he's not going to playing at Bama anymore.

If all constraints are removed for grad transfers, it seems reasonable to me to expect that they might increase substantially. It's looking like most if not all the constraints could soon be eliminated. If so, we'll get to see what all happens as a result -- good, bad and/or ugly.

i dont' think he was going to play, regardless. the only way he sees the field as a significant contributor at Bama is if someone gets hurt.

 

[Bobo0101]

Oh, gotcha now. Yeah, probably won't be a common occurrence. But using the QB example, it's common for QBs to redshirt. So, one graduating in 3 years, could have 2 years to play. And Saban was refering to schools losing their best players. If it happens it could be a costly loss to the school who loses their star starting QB, RB, WR, LB...they were counting on.

This made me think of Russell Wilson. I guess the argument comes down to prioritizing what is best for the institution who is counting on the player or what is best for the student athlete who wants to showcase his talents.

 

[Tidal Surge]

maybe, maybe not. there still has to be someone willing and able to take the kid. scholarship restrictions and how you count kids in a class may limit it somewhat.

and we've already seen it rise over the past few years. used to be, if you had a 4th or 5th year left, you'd stay and just re enroll, no matter if you're going for a graduate degree or not. the goal being to use up your eligibility in hopes of getting to the NFL.

seems there's some of that going on with grad transfers now. so i'm not completely naive here.

i still don't think it's an epidemic type issue, worthy of the attention it's gotten of late. and i say that as a fan of a program that has several Jucos coming in and at least 2 grad transfer players coming. but that's dictated by situation, not as an actual strategy for running a program year in and year out.

the reality is most will use up their eligibility and get their undergrad in the allotted time. those that have the opportunity will go to the NFL early, or go to the NFL versus doing a grad transfer deal.

the guys that want to transfer have two basic motives....they really want that graduate degree, or they want to make the most of the eligibilty they have left somewhere they think they can have a better opportunity.

to me, it's just that simple.

I hope you're right. I hope there's not any significant amount of unintended bad consequences for the sport or the players (if/when the NCAA eliminates release and contact restrictions on grad transfers).

I do think it's a good thing that juco and grad transfers don't have to sit out a year. No matter how good you are in recruiting, player development and roster management, due to things like unexpected injuries, attrition, early departures to the NFL, etc., schools do have holes they need to fill.

(An aside: Bama is good at that stuff but still has a few dangerously thin positions. Due in part to high staff turnover we lost out on Peterson, Walker and another ILB target and two DL targets. We were able to grab a 3* ILB and a juco DT, but a far cry from what we needed at those positions in the 2018 cycle. To make matters worse, 3 of our rising ILBs are hardly making the most of their opportunities to step up and/or stay out of trouble. If one of the starting ILBs gets hurt it could be tough sledding. We also couldn't land a good HS or a transfer QB due to having Jalen & Tua. We finally got a QB the other day that was a PWO at Arky St.)

And of course filling holes and building depth is an even bigger short-term need in situations like UT's where a coaching change causes loss of recruits, above normal attrition, etc. It looks like Pruitt and his staff are doing a good job in getting some key juco and grad transfers, and they're off to a really strong start landing HS talent too in this recruiting cycle. Good luck the rest of the way.
:toast:

 

[drvenner]

My overall opinion on transfers is that they should be able to go wherever they want without any coach dictating any scholarship restriction that first year. The consequence for the transfer should be to sit out a year, just to limit wholesale free agency that would occur. Graduate transfers should have no such restriction.

 

[RikidyBones]

My overall opinion on transfers is that they should be able to go wherever they want without any coach dictating any scholarship restriction that first year. The consequence for the transfer should be to sit out a year, just to limit wholesale free agency that would occur. Graduate transfers should have no such restriction.

This.

 

[jakez4ut]

This made me think of Russell Wilson. I guess the argument comes down to prioritizing what is best for the institution who is counting on the player or what is best for the student athlete who wants to showcase his talents.

Yep and that Russell Wilson deal can be easily blamed on ncsu's head coach.

It's still not the norm.

 

[jakez4ut]

I hope you're right. I hope there's not any significant amount of unintended bad consequences for the sport or the players.

I do think it's a good thing that juco and grad transfers don't have to sit out a year. No matter how good you are in recruiting, player development and roster management, due to things like unexpected injuries, attrition, early departures to the NFL, etc., schools do have holes they need to fill.

(An aside: Bama is good at that stuff but still has a few dangerously thin positions. Due in part to high staff turnover we lost out on Peterson, Walker and another ILB target and two DL targets. We were able to grab a 3* ILB and a juco DT, but a far cry from what we needes at those positions in the 2018 cycle. To make matters worse, 3 of our rising ILBs are hardly making the most of their opportunities to step up and/or stay out of trouble. If one of the starting ILBs gets hurt it could be tough sledding. We also couldn't land a good HS or a transfer QB due to having Jalen & Tua. We finally got a QB the other day that was a PWO at Arky St.)

And of course filling holes and building depth is an even bigger short-term need in situations like UT's where a coaching change causes loss of recruits, above normal attrition, etc. It looks like Pruitt and his staff are doing a good job in getting some key juco and grad transfers, and they're off to a really strong start landing HS talent too in this recruiting cycle. Good luck the rest of the way.
:toast:

Sympathy or empathy for Alabama is at an all time low.

We're all out.:shades:

 

[SobeVol]

That's what Saban was talking about. There'll be some instances when one of the top teams will cherry pick one of the best players from a team that can't afford that hit. Also, if a program loses their HC, they might also see some of their best players who are getting their degrees in three years quickly jump ship to go with him or elsewhere.

Eta: My panties aren't in a wad. I wear boxers. And they're not in wad either. Lol. If Kennedy winds up at UT, I won't lose a wink of sleep or fret over it. I'll wish him well except on TSIOs. I'll hope those are very rough days for him and very good days for our nose tackles.

Your point at the surface sounds valid. Like sabans defense however it has holes. Saban says it isn’t “on him”, but as I read the rule the players’ coach can give a wave to bypass this. If you care about a kids future and know he isn’t going to play, you submarine his career. Even more so at the grad level. He’s paid his dues, let the kid pursue his dreams.
As to your argument it sounds valid at first. However almost always a “championship” level team exists in other conference ( case in point in your argument- Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio state). The current rule would therefore allow a transfer there. So cherry picking can and has always been possible, and hasn’t adversely affected the course yet ( maybe cam). So this sounds more like a good cover argument for Saban and Bama fans wanting to weaken the competition and stack the deck at the expense of players careers.

 

[quadlee21]

Gonna be awesome when Kennedy is officially a Vol. Two (maybe three) year starter at center. Could end up being the best get of the '18 class.

whoaaa, what have I missed ? whats the deal with the 3rd year eligibility possibility ? that sounds to good to be true.

 

[LA Vol]

He's a RS Soph-- RS his FR year and got a medical RS last year.

 

[bignewt]

Anything happen yet?

 

[quadlee21]

He's a RS Soph-- RS his FR year and got a medical RS last year.

oh ok. I didn't realize he had been granted a extra red shirt for a medical.

 

[quadlee21]

If this dude has already graduated and still may have 3 years left to play. He may very well be a Doctor by the time his eligibility is up...............LOL

 

[LA Vol]

I wondered about that, too-- how many more degrees can he get? I'm guessing he expects to start right away and hopes to make an impact and be drafted after two years.

 

[Tidal Surge]

Your point at the surface sounds valid. Like sabans defense however it has holes. Saban says it isn’t “on him”, but as I read the rule the players’ coach can give a wave to bypass this. If you care about a kids future and know he isn’t going to play, you submarine his career. Even more so at the grad level. He’s paid his dues, let the kid pursue his dreams.
As to your argument it sounds valid at first. However almost always a “championship” level team exists in other conference ( case in point in your argument- Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio state). The current rule would therefore allow a transfer there. So cherry picking can and has always been possible, and hasn’t adversely affected the course yet ( maybe cam). So this sounds more like a good cover argument for Saban and Bama fans wanting to weaken the competition and stack the deck at the expense of players careers.

Maybe so. But I don't think it's that Saban doesn't care about Kennedy's best interests. He is supportive of Kennedy transfering, but he's not supportive of rules that could essentially force UA to develop players for the benefit of teams that compete directly against UA and those transfering players' former teammates.

I suspect Saban also thinks Kennedy's case doesn't pass the tampering smell test very well. Another UA offensive lineman, Dallas Warmack just recently grad transfered to Oregon where former UA offensive line coach Mario Cristobal is the HC. It was Warmack's desire to transfer (not Saban's) and it was smooth as silk. But the media rarely mentions that fact when reporting about Kennedy's case.

Though cherry picking has already been possible but uncommon, it stands to reason that elimination of transfer release and contact restrictions will make it much easier and therefore more common. It appears the NCAA is likely to eliminate those restrictions for grads pretty soon. If they do, we'll soon get to see all that happens as a result.

ETA: The narrative that Saban doesn't care about his players is popular on VN and other team boards, but it's unfounded. So, I'm just gonna leave this here:

Bama Cuts Episode 4, Part 1: Saban, Clinton-Dix, Cooper, Henry cut up (247Sports/BOL)

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Maybe so. But I don't think it's that Saban doesn't care about Kennedy's best interests. He is supportive of Kennedy transfering, but he's not supportive of rules that that essentially force UA to develop players for the benefit of teams that compete directly against UA and those transfering players' former teammates at Bama.

I suspect Saban also thinks Kennedy's case doesn't pass the tampering smell test very well. Another UA offensive lineman, Dallas Warmack just recently grad transfered to Oregon where former UA offensive line coach Mario Cristobal is the HC. It was Warmack's desire to transfer (not Saban's) and it was smooth as silk. But the media rarely mentions that fact when reporting about Kennedy's case.

Though cherry picking has already been possible but uncommon, it stands to reason that elimination of transfer release and contact restrictions will make much easier and therefore more common. It appears the NCAA is likely to eliminate those restrictions for grads pretty soon. If they do, we'll soon get to see all that happens as a result.

TBF, Warmack also only has one year left and is transferring to a school that has no chance of being matched up with Bama anytime soon.