'16 TN LB Tim Hart (FORMER UT commit 6/26/15)

[VolGee4]

It doesn't make it better. It makes it easier from not biting you in the ass standpoint. You think Butch is gonna keep pulling multiple 5* late in the game if 9 wins is the ceiling? I don't.

I also don't think that's the ceiling so hopefully it's a moot point. The Bama point is they can afford to "burn bridges" cause there are enough kids willing to line up for a NC contender.

My point is a few are making a big deal about the actual letting go of a committed player, yet forget that other schools do it too. It doesn't matter if those schools win big or not; they still do it. I don't like burning bridges, but we are at the point where it's not a huge deal. MUS doesn't consistently produce high level talent, yet UT has been the second most attended school by its general student population. Three years from now, a player won't really know who Hart was. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

[landscapingvol]

This is the first recruit I have ever seen bash a school he was once committed

 

[HalfullVol]

PFort said he took an OV to Memphis this weekend.

this is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Biblical...

 

[southgatevol]

Reading is struggling today. I never said or implied we should get everyone we offered. My point is that TN has enough talent these days that we can easily rely on in state players for 25-40% of our class on any given year (assuming they actually come here). The talent is there, that's the point.

No problem with my reading skills. I think you get the best talent you can get no matter the state. Great talent is great talent and the address doesn't matter.

 

[southgatevol]

Memphis has always been a struggle. This year the whole state looks like a struggle. Butch said he was going to build a fence around the state 3 years ago. This year looks as though Butch may need old Donald Trump to show him how to build a fence.

Of course he said he would. Easier said than done. He would be the first UT coach in my memory to consistently get every instate recruit he wants.

 

[SouthKnoxVOL]

Memphis has always been a struggle. This year the whole state looks like a struggle. Butch said he was going to build a fence around the state 3 years ago. This year looks as though Butch may need old Donald Trump to show him how to build a fence.

The talent in Tennessee this year was not very good. The 17' class is loaded.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

My point is a few are making a big deal about the actual letting go of a committed player, yet forget that other schools do it too. It doesn't matter if those schools win big or not; they still do it. I don't like burning bridges, but we are at the point where it's not a huge deal. MUS doesn't consistently produce high level talent, yet UT has been the second most attended school by its general student population. Three years from now, a player won't really know who Hart was. It's just the nature of the beast.

Ok, we're arguing two different points.

But for ****s and giggles, I'm not a fan of it, no matter who's doing it, so it doesn't make it acceptable cause XYZ does it. I wish we could find a way around it. Early signing period protects both parties. Coaches wouldn't be so nillie-willie accepting commitments and kids won't be able to screw schools over last minute and they'll be more selective.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

No problem with my reading skills. I think you get the best talent you can get no matter the state. Great talent is great talent and the address doesn't matter.

You're still missing it. You said we can't rely on TN anyway or we'll be in the gutter (paraphrasing). If we took only TN kids every year (top 25 kids) we'd probably be in a similar situation as Miss St from a talent standpoint. We don't win a NC on 25 TN kids but 10-12 with needs sprinkled in elsewhere is a winnable formula. Now if a QB from GA is better than the QB from TN then yes, you take the GA kid. Point is, if need be we can get by on classes heavy in TN talent.

 

[Nashvegas31]

First, there are DEFINITELY two sides to the story. You're reacting as if there's only one. Most coaches will have an open mind and accept Butch's explanation, whatever it is. The fact that he never took an OV is very telling. Now, will some coaches with an ax to grind against UT use this as ammo? Absolutely, but if it isn't this it will be something else.

Second, it doesn't matter if you understand why the offer was made in the first place. Maybe there's an underclassman at the school that the staff wants. Maybe a 5-star unexpectedly committed and took his spot. Maybe losing no players to the draft cut the projected numbers. Whatever the reason, Butch saw fit to do so. Considering that he's forgotten more about recruiting and talent evaluation than you'll ever know, I'll side with him.

I know there are 2 sides to every story. I'm just telling you Memphis HS football does not think that way. They play the victim card at all times.

 

[southgatevol]

You're still missing it. You said we can't rely on TN anyway or we'll be in the gutter (paraphrasing). If we took only TN kids every year (top 25 kids) we'd probably be in a similar situation as Miss St from a talent standpoint. We don't win a NC on 25 TN kids but 10-12 with needs sprinkled in elsewhere is a winnable formula. Now if a QB from GA is better than the QB from TN then yes, you take the GA kid. Point is, if need be we can get by on classes heavy in TN talent.

We can agree to disagree. At this point, I don't think we could win championships with 40 to 50 instate players on the roster. I hope the talent improves to where it is possible.

 

[VolGee4]

You're still missing it. You said we can't rely on TN anyway or we'll be in the gutter (paraphrasing). If we took only TN kids every year (top 25 kids) we'd probably be in a similar situation as Miss St from a talent standpoint. We don't win a NC on 25 TN kids but 10-12 with needs sprinkled in elsewhere is a winnable formula. Now if a QB from GA is better than the QB from TN then yes, you take the GA kid. Point is, if need be we can get by on classes heavy in TN talent.

I don't believe this year's class was good enough for that. Leb will tell you otherwise because ND, Michigan, Cal, UNC, and A&M recruited them. But Cal and UNC are not on our level, and we didn't want all of the kids. Emmitt Gooden won't qualify either. Didn't have a great RB, LB, or DT either. So, this year was limited.

 

[UTwild82]

I know it shouldn't, but it absolutely floors me how many Vol fans are on FB and twitter trashing him. Unreal. Do these people not realize it's beyond pathetic and classless for 30-60 year olds to take to social media and badmouth a 18 year old?

 

[loggervol]

if this young man is truly a d1 talent, he will have a scholarship somewhere. it won't be at UT but he will get a free education and play football somewhere.

I don't know what the coaches told him but he looked like a perfect candidate for a blue shirt.

all coaches are in the business of winning or trying to win. and if they aren't, they're out of a job. anybody that says different is a liar. Butch has to take the best players to win. if he doesn't take the best players, the same people complaining about any player being let go or being offered a blue shirt. would be b!#%Hing because the class isn't ranked high enough.

jmo.

GO VOLS!!!!!!!

 

[allvol123]

He shouldnt know any better than to write that. But that is why parents exist. Step up.

 

[Atzar]

I know there are 2 sides to every story. I'm just telling you Memphis HS football does not think that way. They play the victim card at all times.

Here's the thing, though. Want to be treated better than Tim Hart? Be better than Tim Hart.

Harsh, callous, but there it is. This is an industry built on competition.

 

[VOLtilldeath]

Best of luck to you Tim Hart!

Man you guys are always wishing guys well when and if thy dont go to UT.i ont blive.that way if they dont play for UT i may wish them luck at not getting hurt.but tim hart has bashed the Tenne$ee coaches an probally thw UNIVERSITY and current players.so i could care less if he ever sees a uniform or playing time .goo ridence you VOL basher you ill get no love pr respect from me for bashing the coaches at the university i been watching for well over 45 years.

 

[landscapingvol]

Memphis has always been a struggle. This year the whole state looks like a struggle. Butch said he was going to build a fence around the state 3 years ago. This year looks as though Butch may need old Donald Trump to show him how to build a fence.

I see you are still wanting UT to just focus on instate recruiting. I will give you a few minutes to think of a team, other than maybe Bama or LSU, that dominates just about all instate recruits. I know you are still tore up over Nate Johnson and now Tim Hart.

 

[SouthKnoxVOL]

Man you guys are always wishing guys well when and if thy dont go to UT.i ont blive.that way if they dont play for UT i may wish them luck at not getting hurt.but tim hart has bashed the Tenne$ee coaches an probally thw UNIVERSITY and current players.so i could care less if he ever sees a uniform or playing time .goo ridence you VOL basher you ill get no love pr respect from me for bashing the coaches at the university i been watching for well over 45 years.

.

 

[CrunchingTheVolz]

I see you are still wanting UT to just focus on instate recruiting. I will give you a few minutes to think of a team, other than maybe Bama or LSU, that dominates just about all instate recruits. I know you are still tore up over Nate Johnson and now Tim Hart.

I'd never expect us to sign the top 15 instate guys or anything like that. But 2 of the top 15? Nah, you can't sell me on that. If those other 13 kids were going to Georgia St, UTC, or even places like NCST. But when Clemson, Oregon, Notre Dame, Ole Miss, and A&M are taking them, I see it as a huge failed opportunity. If you're going to talk about locking down the state, then do it. Not sometimes. Its got to be a constant presence in TN high schools, not just years when there are a handful of 5* guys.

They should have extended an offer to N.Johnson 6-8 months ago. Over 3000 yards and 44 TDs receiving in 2 years? No brainer.

 

[junder13]

I thought from the day he committed that this was a scenario that would likely play out once higher-rated recruits joined later in the process. Several other posters speculated as much. If so many were thinking that, then why offer the scholarship 8 months before signing day in the first place? Butch Jones has done this numerous times over the last 3 years and EVERY time the same excuses are thrown out by the same people. I see this as a microcosm of society in general. People will excuse bad behavior (often irrespective of the perceived degree of injustice) if it results in something they want or if addressing said bad behavior would be out of favor with the masses. In this case, the majority of UT fans are quick to dismiss the head coach backing out on his scholarship offer to a kid because they believe a higher rated kid will likely replace him, which they believe will likely result in more wins in the future. It's a small but effective example of how people will bend or even break principles to get what they want, especially behind the mask of an unanimous computer. While Hart may not have developed like expected (hoped), that doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't have been offered a scholarship in the first place. The only kid that Jones has done this to that would have surprised most fans was probably the DE from Florida (the worst offense because it was only a week or so before NSD). Every other occurrence there was plenty of speculation that it would happen from the moment of the commitment going public. If it is that obvious to fans, then why does our coach keeping doing this? That question doesn't really matter anyway though, because it should never happen -- marginal talent, elite talent, or otherwise. The only justified reason for backing out of a commitment to a scholarship offer is grades and for moral reasons. I doubt either apply here, nor did it apply the numerous other instances.

A person of principal should find this pattern to be disturbing, no matter how many other schools do it or not. And winning does not cure all -- only glosses over the unscrupulous for the indecent. And I was just beginning to become more favorable of Jones, too...

Carry on.

 

[BruinVol]

I know it shouldn't, but it absolutely floors me how many Vol fans are on FB and twitter trashing him. Unreal. Do these people not realize it's beyond pathetic and classless for 30-60 year olds to take to social media and badmouth a 18 year old?

How are they trashing him?

 

[CrunchingTheVolz]

I thought from the day he committed that this was a scenario that would likely play out once higher-rated recruits joined later in the process. Several other posters speculated as much. If so many were thinking that, then why offer the scholarship 8 months before signing day in the first place? Butch Jones has done this numerous times over the last 3 years and EVERY time the same excuses are thrown out by the same people. I see this as a microcosm of society in general. People will excuse bad behavior (often irrespective of the perceived degree of injustice) if it results in something they want or if addressing said bad behavior would be out of favor with the masses. In this case, the majority of UT fans are quick to dismiss the head coach backing out on his scholarship offer to a kid because they believe a higher rated kid will likely replace him, which they believe will likely result in more wins in the future. It's a small but effective example of how people will bend or even break principles to get what they want, especially behind the mask of an unanimous computer. While Hart may not have developed like expected (hoped), that doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't have been offered a scholarship in the first place. The only kid that Jones has done this to that would have surprised most fans was probably the DE from Florida (the worst offense because it was only a week or so before NSD). Every other occurrence there was plenty of speculation that it would happen from the moment of the commitment going public. If it is that obvious to fans, then why does our coach keeping doing this? That question doesn't really matter anyway though, because it should never happen -- marginal talent, elite talent, or otherwise. The only justified reason for backing out of a commitment to a scholarship offer is grades and for moral reasons. I doubt either apply here, nor did it apply the numerous other instances.

A person of principal should find this pattern to be disturbing, no matter how many other schools do it or not. And winning does not cure all -- only glosses over the unscrupulous for the indecent. And I was just beginning to become more favorable of Jones, too...

Carry on.

Well said.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

I don't believe this year's class was good enough for that. Leb will tell you otherwise because ND, Michigan, Cal, UNC, and A&M recruited them. But Cal and UNC are not on our level, and we didn't want all of the kids. Emmitt Gooden won't qualify either. Didn't have a great RB, LB, or DT either. So, this year was limited.

Nygel Edmonds was going to Stanford initially and I'm not sure what was behind his flip to Cal, but I believe he's good enough to play here. We've had some trouble of late getting the private school kids out of the Chattanooga area. If MS State can build 9 win teams in the SEC west with another solid P5 school in state I think we could "manage" on a lot of TN talent. TN talent alone won't get us to where we ultimately want to be, no doubting that.

 

[butchna]

Man you guys are always wishing guys well when and if thy dont go to UT.i ont blive.that way if they dont play for UT i may wish them luck at not getting hurt.but tim hart has bashed the Tenne$ee coaches an probally thw UNIVERSITY and current players.so i could care less if he ever sees a uniform or playing time .goo ridence you VOL basher you ill get no love pr respect from me for bashing the coaches at the university i been watching for well over 45 years.

Well said? :unsure:

 

[UTwild82]

How are they trashing him?

All kinds of things. He's a f*****g baby, grow up, he's trash, etc. You name it, it's been said.

I have little to no problem with what Butch did. If we have better options available, we have to get the best available. It's, sadly, the nature of the game. Players do it all the time. But there's no reason for supposed adults to jump on FB, twitter and talk bad. About an 18 year old. It's pathetic.