'17 CA DT/OL Jalen McKenzie

#351
#351
Wickman said:
The all caps were sarcasm.

We are in on better talent.

Pretty simple.
Click to expand...

Sarcasm is not seen on VN that often so forgive me for not picking up on it.

So, Butch stopped returning my calls after I told him he betrayed the team (I was joking, Butch. Get over it.) so I'm not sure how many OT's we might take. And you don't pass on Trey Smith, I get that. But I also don't think you eliminate a legacy's chances to get an offer over two knee surgeries anymore.

Players recover. Hell, Jacob Gilliam played an entire season with nothing but duct tape and positive thinking holding his leg together.
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NFL All-ACL Team
 
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#352
#352
I'll do my best to be civil in responding to this asinine expectation that UT should take a player simply because they are a legacy. No sports program with scholarship limitations would ever be beholden to providing a full-ride scholarship to the children of former players, and most certainly not an all-time top 10 winning football program such as UT. Why we have fans who continue to promote such low expectation nonsense is beyond me.

Additionally, the tackle position is inarguably the strongest position of the 2017 class. There are 15 tackles rated in the top 100 composite. That's unreal. Furthermore, the 2018 class shows early indications of being tackle heavy, too. If that is not enough to convince you that a top football program should probably not take a chance or reach on a prospect at the tackle spot in 2017, know that there are several developmental tackles with great upside that might be lower rated for the moment but also offer enticing potential over a 4-5 year college career (Obinna Eze would be one of many examples here).

I think Jalen Mckenzie could become a terrific P5 player. But, as pointed out numerous times, he has only played one full season of high school football due to two separate knee injuries on the same knee and he is only 17 years old. That is a significant risk for a young man that's around 300 lbs. If he were to have another injury on that same knee over the next few season, he would probably have a decision to make about whether or not to continue his playing career. I doubt money will be a motivating factor in such a scenario, given the stature of his father with the Raiders. My point is that he is a considerable risk from an injury perspective.

Now let's consider who we have a reasonable to strong chance to sign at tackle in 2017 (using 247 composite position rankings):

#7 Jedrick Wills
#9 Andrew Thomas
#10 Trey Smith
#15 Chuck Filiaga
#18 Tony Gray
#27 Obinna Eze
#31 Adrian Ealy
(Jalen McKenzie is rated #47, for reference)

Now ratings aren't the end-all be-all for me, but several of these OTs participated recently at the Rivals 5-Star Challenge, facing some of the best d-lineman in the country. Wills, Filiaga, Gray, Eze, and Ealy all made it to the OL/DL finals. Wills and Ealy were two of four or five lineman who made it on Mike Farrell's All-Position team. Ealy has apparently made significant and steady improvement in the camp circuit and will most certainly shoot up the rankings. Wills is already rated a five-star but I would anticipate a rise in his composite ranking, too. He looks elite. Interestingly enough, he may also be best suited for a guard position, which could mean UT would pursue him even if we felt confident we could land both blue chip in-state OT's (Smith and Eze). Ealy has previously visited UT and has spoken very highly of our coaching staff, stating that he communicates with our staff as often as with any other. LSU is of course a very possible (maybe even likely) destination, but UT would appear to be in as good a position as any other school outside of the home state bayou bengals. The same could be said for Wills. He is generally thought to be a UK lean, with both UT and Bama the strongest contenders outside his homestate. Both the UK and LSU programs have coaching staffs that could be on the hot seat if 2016 does not play out as fans expect (at least a bowl for UK and probably a top 10 finish for LSU). Obviously if the season turns out less than expected then questions marks will swirl around the HC of the program, making suitors outside the state more probable.

Filiaga is originally from CA but moved to TX. This could help our cause. He spoke well of UT following his visit a few months back, and has stated that he intends to return. He is actually my second favorite tackle prospect this cycle, behind Smith.

I don't know much about Thomas and have never seen him play. I watch the highlights on Tony Gray and was unimpressed. I hope we have all the other listed players above him in priority, personally.

Smith wasn't at the Rivals camp challenge but he is rated as the #1 OT this cycle by both ESPN and 247. He is as elite as it gets and should probably be our highest priority recruit this cycle. I will be very, very surprised if he signs anywhere but UT, assuming we have a top 10 season as we are expected to have (and most certainly should have).

Eze is considered a developmental project, having yet to play a full year of varsity football. In a camp setting, however, he has shown more than enough to believe that his potential is as high as any tackle in the 2017 class (admittedly, this is my opinion, as I have not read a national recruiting analyst describe his ceiling as being that high, although plenty have described it as being a high ceiling). I believe Eze will become one of the staff's top priorities this year (and it may be already). Eze has shown incredible development in a short period of time and the "project label" might be unnecessary and overstated. Just watch highlights of him at the 5-Star Challenge. He is holding his own against the best throughout the highlight reel (granted, we only see 8 minutes of the OL/DL matchups).

So, in conclusion, we are real contenders for 7 blue chip-to-elite tackles this year. And although a few of them could have a future at guard (Wills and Gray in particular), you likely would have any success to recruit them as anything but tackle. Therefore, it's hard to imagine more than 3 OTs in the 2017 cycle. Most fans are optimistic and hopeful we can sign both Smith and Eze (I think we get both). I am in the camp that we can sign 3 this year: Smith, Eze, and one of Wills/Thomas/Filiaga/Gray/Ealy. I, personally, hope we get Filaga, but I also would love to see us land Wills, who I think is a real possibility. He can be moved to guard and then we have bookend tackles and an elite guard in 2017.

Oh, and Eze, Wills, and Ealy are visiting UT in the next few weeks (I think both are scheduled to be here for Orange Carpet). I wouldn't be surprised if Smith and Gray make it in as well.

This is why expecting UT to sign McKenzie despite his injury risk and maybe even limited potential/skill is so preposterous. Maybe in any of Butch's previous recruiting classes, but not in 2017. It's go big or go home this year at the OT position (and 2018 should be the same, especially with eventual 5-star Cade Mays already commited).
 
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#353
#353
junder13 said:
I'll do my best to be civil in responding to this asinine expectation that UT should take a player simply because they are a legacy. No sports program with scholarship limitations would ever be beholden to providing a full-ride scholarship to the children of former players, and most certainly not an all-time top 10 winning football program such as UT. Why we have fans who continue to promote such low expectation nonsense is beyond me.

Additionally, the tackle position is inarguably the strongest position of the 2017 class. There are 15 tackles rated in the top 100 composite. That's unreal. Furthermore, the 2018 class shows early indications of being tackle heavy, too. If that is not enough to convince you that a top football program should probably not take a chance or reach on a prospect at the tackle spot in 2017, know that there are several developmental tackles with great upside that might be lower rated for the moment but also offer enticing potential over a 4-5 year college career (Obinna Eze would be one of many examples here).

I think Jalen Mckenzie could become a terrific P5 player. But, as pointed out numerous times, he has only played one full season of high school football due to two separate knee injuries on the same knee and he is only 17 years old. That is a significant risk for a young man that's around 300 lbs. If he were to have another injury on that same knee over the next few season, he would probably have a decision to make about whether or not to continue his playing career. I doubt money will be a motivating factor in such a scenario, given the stature of his father with the Raiders. My point is that he is a considerable risk from an injury perspective.

Now let's consider who we have a reasonable to strong chance to sign at tackle in 2017 (using 247 composite position rankings):

#7 Jedrick Wills
#9 Andrew Thomas
#10 Trey Smith
#15 Chuck Filiaga
#18 Tony Gray
#27 Obinna Eze
#31 Adrian Ealy
(Jalen McKenzie is rated #47, for reference)

Now ratings aren't the end-all be-all for me, but several of these OTs participated recently at the Rivals 5-Star Challenge, facing some of the best d-lineman in the country. Wills, Filiaga, Gray, Eze, and Ealy all made it to the OL/DL finals. Wills and Ealy were two of four or five lineman who made it on Mike Farrell's All-Position team. Ealy has apparently made significant and steady improvement in the camp circuit and will most certainly shoot up the rankings. Wills is already rated a five-star but I would anticipate a rise in his composite ranking, too. He looks elite. Interestingly enough, he may also be best suited for a guard position, which could mean UT would pursue him even if we felt confident we could land both blue chip in-state OT's (Smith and Eze). Ealy has previously visited UT and has spoken very highly of our coaching staff, stating that he communicates with our staff as often as with any other. LSU is of course a very possible (maybe even likely) destination, but UT would appear to be in as good a position as any other school outside of the home state bayou bengals. The same could be said for Wills. He is generally thought to be a UK lean, with both UT and Bama the strongest contenders outside his homestate. Both the UK and LSU programs have coaching staffs that could be on the hot seat if 2016 does not play out as fans expect (at least a bowl for UK and probably a top 10 finish for LSU). Obviously if the season turns out less than expected then questions marks will swirl around the HC of the program, making suitors outside the state more probable.

Filiaga is originally from CA but moved to TX. This could help our cause. He spoke well of UT following his visit a few months back, and has stated that he intends to return. He is actually my second favorite tackle prospect this cycle, behind Smith.

I don't know much about Thomas and have never seen him play. I watch the highlights on Tony Gray and was unimpressed. I hope we have all the other listed players above him in priority, personally.

Smith wasn't at the Rivals camp challenge but he is rated as the #1 OT this cycle by both ESPN and 247. He is as elite as it gets and should probably be our highest priority recruit this cycle. I will be very, very surprised if he signs anywhere but UT, assuming we have a top 10 season as we are expected to have (and most certainly should have).

Eze is considered a developmental project, having yet to play a full year of varsity football. In a camp setting, however, he has shown more than enough to believe that his potential is as high as any tackle in the 2017 class (admittedly, this is my opinion, as I have not read a national recruiting analyst describe his ceiling as being that high, although plenty have described it as being a high ceiling). I believe Eze will become one of the staff's top priorities this year (and it may be already). Eze has shown incredible development in a short period of time and the "project label" might be unnecessary and overstated. Just watch highlights of him at the 5-Star Challenge. He is holding his own against the best throughout the highlight reel (granted, we only see 8 minutes of the OL/DL matchups).

So, in conclusion, we are real contenders for 7 blue chip-to-elite tackles this year. And although a few of them could have a future at guard (Wills and Gray in particular), you likely would have any success to recruit them as anything but tackle. Therefore, it's hard to imagine more than 3 OTs in the 2017 cycle. Most fans are optimistic and hopeful we can sign both Smith and Eze (I think we get both). I am in the camp that we can sign 3 this year: Smith, Eze, and one of Wills/Thomas/Filiaga/Gray/Ealy. I, personally, hope we get Filaga, but I also would love to see us land Wills, who I think is a real possibility. He can be moved to guard and then we have bookend tackles and an elite guard in 2017.

Oh, and Eze, Wills, and Ealy are visiting UT in the next few weeks (I think both are scheduled to be here for Orange Carpet). I wouldn't be surprised if Smith and Gray make it in as well.

This is why expecting UT to sign McKenzie despite his injury risk and maybe even limited potential/skill is so preposterous. Maybe in any of Butch's previous recruiting classes, but not in 2017. It's go big or go home this year at the OT position (and 2018 should be the same, especially with eventual 5-star Cade Mays already commited).
Click to expand...

It isn't fair for you to participate in arguments on VN, Coach DeBord. I gave you the "like" because you just scared the hell out of me.

You obviously know more about this than..everybody. You shut me up. Good info!

Edit: You actually DIDN'T shut me up. I just had to go to sleep. See Below.
 
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#354
#354
If we only got two out of that list, then I could see us offer Mckenzie. Probably on the board but way down the list.
 
#355
#355
I wonder how high of a prospect Jalen would have been if he didn't have 2 knee surgeries. Still think Jalen ends up at Tennessee when it's all said and done
 
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#356
#356
junder13 said:
I'll do my best to be civil in responding to this asinine expectation that UT should take a player simply because they are a legacy. No sports program with scholarship limitations would ever be beholden to providing a full-ride scholarship to the children of former players, and most certainly not an all-time top 10 winning football program such as UT. Why we have fans who continue to promote such low expectation nonsense is beyond me.

Additionally, the tackle position is inarguably the strongest position of the 2017 class. There are 15 tackles rated in the top 100 composite. That's unreal. Furthermore, the 2018 class shows early indications of being tackle heavy, too. If that is not enough to convince you that a top football program should probably not take a chance or reach on a prospect at the tackle spot in 2017, know that there are several developmental tackles with great upside that might be lower rated for the moment but also offer enticing potential over a 4-5 year college career (Obinna Eze would be one of many examples here).

I think Jalen Mckenzie could become a terrific P5 player. But, as pointed out numerous times, he has only played one full season of high school football due to two separate knee injuries on the same knee and he is only 17 years old. That is a significant risk for a young man that's around 300 lbs. If he were to have another injury on that same knee over the next few season, he would probably have a decision to make about whether or not to continue his playing career. I doubt money will be a motivating factor in such a scenario, given the stature of his father with the Raiders. My point is that he is a considerable risk from an injury perspective.

Now let's consider who we have a reasonable to strong chance to sign at tackle in 2017 (using 247 composite position rankings):

#7 Jedrick Wills
#9 Andrew Thomas
#10 Trey Smith
#15 Chuck Filiaga
#18 Tony Gray
#27 Obinna Eze
#31 Adrian Ealy
(Jalen McKenzie is rated #47, for reference)

Now ratings aren't the end-all be-all for me, but several of these OTs participated recently at the Rivals 5-Star Challenge, facing some of the best d-lineman in the country. Wills, Filiaga, Gray, Eze, and Ealy all made it to the OL/DL finals. Wills and Ealy were two of four or five lineman who made it on Mike Farrell's All-Position team. Ealy has apparently made significant and steady improvement in the camp circuit and will most certainly shoot up the rankings. Wills is already rated a five-star but I would anticipate a rise in his composite ranking, too. He looks elite. Interestingly enough, he may also be best suited for a guard position, which could mean UT would pursue him even if we felt confident we could land both blue chip in-state OT's (Smith and Eze). Ealy has previously visited UT and has spoken very highly of our coaching staff, stating that he communicates with our staff as often as with any other. LSU is of course a very possible (maybe even likely) destination, but UT would appear to be in as good a position as any other school outside of the home state bayou bengals. The same could be said for Wills. He is generally thought to be a UK lean, with both UT and Bama the strongest contenders outside his homestate. Both the UK and LSU programs have coaching staffs that could be on the hot seat if 2016 does not play out as fans expect (at least a bowl for UK and probably a top 10 finish for LSU). Obviously if the season turns out less than expected then questions marks will swirl around the HC of the program, making suitors outside the state more probable.

Filiaga is originally from CA but moved to TX. This could help our cause. He spoke well of UT following his visit a few months back, and has stated that he intends to return. He is actually my second favorite tackle prospect this cycle, behind Smith.

I don't know much about Thomas and have never seen him play. I watch the highlights on Tony Gray and was unimpressed. I hope we have all the other listed players above him in priority, personally.

Smith wasn't at the Rivals camp challenge but he is rated as the #1 OT this cycle by both ESPN and 247. He is as elite as it gets and should probably be our highest priority recruit this cycle. I will be very, very surprised if he signs anywhere but UT, assuming we have a top 10 season as we are expected to have (and most certainly should have).

Eze is considered a developmental project, having yet to play a full year of varsity football. In a camp setting, however, he has shown more than enough to believe that his potential is as high as any tackle in the 2017 class (admittedly, this is my opinion, as I have not read a national recruiting analyst describe his ceiling as being that high, although plenty have described it as being a high ceiling). I believe Eze will become one of the staff's top priorities this year (and it may be already). Eze has shown incredible development in a short period of time and the "project label" might be unnecessary and overstated. Just watch highlights of him at the 5-Star Challenge. He is holding his own against the best throughout the highlight reel (granted, we only see 8 minutes of the OL/DL matchups).

So, in conclusion, we are real contenders for 7 blue chip-to-elite tackles this year. And although a few of them could have a future at guard (Wills and Gray in particular), you likely would have any success to recruit them as anything but tackle. Therefore, it's hard to imagine more than 3 OTs in the 2017 cycle. Most fans are optimistic and hopeful we can sign both Smith and Eze (I think we get both). I am in the camp that we can sign 3 this year: Smith, Eze, and one of Wills/Thomas/Filiaga/Gray/Ealy. I, personally, hope we get Filaga, but I also would love to see us land Wills, who I think is a real possibility. He can be moved to guard and then we have bookend tackles and an elite guard in 2017.

Oh, and Eze, Wills, and Ealy are visiting UT in the next few weeks (I think both are scheduled to be here for Orange Carpet). I wouldn't be surprised if Smith and Gray make it in as well.

This is why expecting UT to sign McKenzie despite his injury risk and maybe even limited potential/skill is so preposterous. Maybe in any of Butch's previous recruiting classes, but not in 2017. It's go big or go home this year at the OT position (and 2018 should be the same, especially with eventual 5-star Cade Mays already commited).
Click to expand...

Slept on it and I couldn't just concede your well argued, albeit condescending, point. Here is why:

First of all, McKenzie is not a stiff. He is having a great spring per reviews, he's been described as having been an exceptional player by his coaches, he's young enough to more readily heal from his injuries and he isn't playing shooting guard for f*k*s sake. He's an OT. Gilliam played a season without an ACL, Munoz was an All-American with multiple surgeries.

Not to mention his star rating, WITH the injury, is only slightly lower than most of those kids you are describing as saviors of the program.

Whether you and some others want to admit it or not, a big part of UT's resurgence has been the FAMILY culture that Butch has installed. He has been rewarded with 100% buy in from players, their families and fans. Loyalty and respect for tradition play a huge part in that. So alienating Khalil, our most highly recruited player in years who happens to also be the most charismatic player on the team shouldn't be a consideration? Then how about the older McKenzies who happen to have their name's and pictures hung all over the sports complex? I don't need to go into the McKenzie family history at UT but not offering this kid would be a huge slap in the face.

According to you, he can be a good P5 player. Just not at Tennessee. We should pass on him because....why? There are a few 4* kids who had good camps?

I'll "do my best to be civil" while i explain our roster to you;

We have Cade Mays, the best tackle in the 2018 class, coming in next year. And there is 5* Drew Richmond who will have 4 years to play come the fall, Ryan Johnson, 4* who would be just as highly recruited this year as most of the players you mentioned, Marcus Tatum and Nathan Niehaus (both of whom were rated the same or lower than and injured McKenzie) will more than likely RS, too. Add to that Trey Smith and Eze who we will probably get and I think UT's line can afford to take a risk on Jalen McKenzie's knee.

And sorry to say but the ship has probably sailed on Filagia, Thomas, Willis and Ealy. I'm glad that you keep up with the recruiting forum but your condescension is based on opinon and star ratings. You might want to consider our actual roster and the fact that you can only play two tackles on the field at any given time. Even considering depth it is "asinine" to make the assumption that we pull 4 of the top tackles in the country this year.

So yeah, I'll take Trey Smith, Obinna Eze and McKenzie. Especially when you look on the sideline and see tradition and respect for the Vols history suited up together. Berry, McKenzie, Mays, Hayden, Kelly, etc.

Your quote:
"Why we have fans who continue to promote such low expectation nonsense is beyond me."

It's a big reason why I started enjoying UT fooball again. No other team in football offers that and that is why i hope the kid gets an offer. Can you understand that?
 
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#357
#357
I don't care to make this a back-and-forth and I am not interested in arguing with a poster whom I've never met and know nothing about. I'll just say that, while I may be wrong, and Jalen McKenzie might be one of the top OL prospects in the entire country irrespective of how strong a year it is at the OT position, I still do not agree that we should offer legacy recruits scholarships because they are legacy. I am well aware of the history of the McKenzie family (two high NFL draft picks from the 80s and Kmac will almost certainly be a high draft pick as well if he stays healthy and continues to improve) but that does not change the need for a top tier program to strive to sign the best combination of skill, talent, and character it possibly can each and every year. We play in a conference that typically has 5 or 6 teams in the top 10 in recruiting every single year. So if we are on the cusp of a top 10 class, we are still likely 4th - 6th in our very own conference. Each scholarship counts.

Kmac is one of my favorite recruits in the Butch Jones era. He recruited several of our 2015 signees (Tuttle being one of the most important), plus he has a great personality and has his family's legacy he is continuing. I would love to see his brother join him. Maybe that could even keep him around a 4th year if he continues developing and has a high draft status after his junior season.

That said, I would still not want to sign him if we have the opportunity to sign a player with a higher skill set, higher ceiling, and less injury risk. JMO. Others feel differently. So be it.

Lastly, to state that the ship has sailed on several of the top rated out-of-state players I listed previously (Jedrick Wills, Andrew Thomas, Chuck Filiaga, Tony Gray, and Adrian Ealy) is unfounded. I cannot confirm our current position with A. Thomas but I can say with the certainty of recent publicly available interviews as recent as last week that all four of the other out-of-state lineman are very much still in play. And, as I stated in my previous post, several of our OT prospects will likely continue going up in the ratings (Trey Smith, Obinna Eze, Wills, Filiaga, Ealy), while Gray may stay the same or even move down. I cannot speak on Thomas but he is highly regarded at present and has spoken highly of UT in the recent past.

If we get McKenzie then great. Unless he really turns heads dramatically his senior year, it likely means we missed on some potentially elite OL talent in 2017, however. He has good pedigree so he may be just as good. Hopefully he has a healthy season and we'll find out. Irrespective, he's a injury risk at a position we appear to have a wealth of options at, which is why I don't view him as a "must sign" prospect this year. Again, JMO. Carry on.
 
#359
#359
Jalens injury has definitely held him back. He may say hes 100% in interviews but you can see he isn't. Still very stiff in his movements and his strength is nowhere near where it needs to be.

He isn't on the level Kahlil is but hes still a very good prospect and would still be a good addition to this roster.

I dont see any other OL that are great shots to land at UT other than Smith and Eze.

Smith
Eze
McKenzie - could be looked at as a Guard if he doesn't progress more

Done at OL for the year, that's my prediction for all of nothing its worth :)
 
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#360
#360
junder13 said:
I don't care to make this a back-and-forth and I am not interested in arguing with a poster whom I've never met and know nothing about. I'll just say that, while I may be wrong, and Jalen McKenzie might be one of the top OL prospects in the entire country irrespective of how strong a year it is at the OT position, I still do not agree that we should offer legacy recruits scholarships because they are legacy. I am well aware of the history of the McKenzie family (two high NFL draft picks from the 80s and Kmac will almost certainly be a high draft pick as well if he stays healthy and continues to improve) but that does not change the need for a top tier program to strive to sign the best combination of skill, talent, and character it possibly can each and every year. We play in a conference that typically has 5 or 6 teams in the top 10 in recruiting every single year. So if we are on the cusp of a top 10 class, we are still likely 4th - 6th in our very own conference. Each scholarship counts.

Kmac is one of my favorite recruits in the Butch Jones era. He recruited several of our 2015 signees (Tuttle being one of the most important), plus he has a great personality and has his family's legacy he is continuing. I would love to see his brother join him. Maybe that could even keep him around a 4th year if he continues developing and has a high draft status after his junior season.

That said, I would still not want to sign him if we have the opportunity to sign a player with a higher skill set, higher ceiling, and less injury risk. JMO. Others feel differently. So be it.

Lastly, to state that the ship has sailed on several of the top rated out-of-state players I listed previously (Jedrick Wills, Andrew Thomas, Chuck Filiaga, Tony Gray, and Adrian Ealy) is unfounded. I cannot confirm our current position with A. Thomas but I can say with the certainty of recent publicly available interviews as recent as last week that all four of the other out-of-state lineman are very much still in play. And, as I stated in my previous post, several of our OT prospects will likely continue going up in the ratings (Trey Smith, Obinna Eze, Wills, Filiaga, Ealy), while Gray may stay the same or even move down. I cannot speak on Thomas but he is highly regarded at present and has spoken highly of UT in the recent past.

If we get McKenzie then great. Unless he really turns heads dramatically his senior year, it likely means we missed on some potentially elite OL talent in 2017, however. He has good pedigree so he may be just as good. Hopefully he has a healthy season and we'll find out. Irrespective, he's a injury risk at a position we appear to have a wealth of options at, which is why I don't view him as a "must sign" prospect this year. Again, JMO. Carry on.
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We both obviously love following TN so I think we have more in common than we not so I hope there are no hard feelings. In fact, I agree with a lot you said.
But:
I guess the main sticking point is that you are talking about McKenzie like he is some kind of scrub. He isn't. He has had some serious injuries but he is progressing very nicely by all accounts. An offer for him isn't charity. I don't expect Butch to extend an offer to a 105 lb DT named Jennifer because her dad was Peerless Price. People act like McKenzie is in constant fear of toppling over while trying to do a girlie pushup. He's really good at football.

Again, I go to Chance Hall. 3* w/ 85 ranking per 247, lower than McKenzie. Torn Achilles his SENIOR year and he ended up a Freshman All-American. UT didn't back off him and volnation was wringing its hands over it. I only bring him up to say that a serious injury doesn't mean that you are not worth an offer. People heal ad improve. I read how highly McKenzie is regarded and if he is healthy, he is in the class of those other targets.

"So if we could get a kid who DOESN'T have a history of knee problems, why wouldn't we?"

The other recruits are very good. No argument. I still don't think we are as close on all of the OT's as you do but I may be wrong. I think we are getting the best one (Smith) and great one (Eze). I also have written so much positive about McKenzie that it is probably getting a bit creepy so I'll stop. He good.

But he also family. One of the most talented classes signed by UT in recent years was Kiffin's. I'm not saying any of the 2017 recruits are capable of a grand theft sandwich like Nu'keese but I think McKenzie is a very good player who will contribute to the team AND to the family culture and unless one of the other kids is a future hall of famer, I'll take him every day.

That is one of the main reasons why this team recruits well, plays hard and fills the stadium. They seem to have all bought in and are tight. bringing in family is a great addition.It makes them fun to watch! Have we gotten so spoiled that we forgot how boring football can be when the players aren't so committed to the team? Or when they are worried about draft stock more than coming back their senior year? Or when you would never dream of a star player changing his #23 to #7 for a hurt teammate? Or when Inky Johnson wasn't allowed around the young players?

I may be going overboard but the legacy stuff, along with bringing VFL's back into the fold, does make a difference. And if you think we haven't passed on more talented players to keep a legacy part of a class you are kidding yourself. We don't agree but that is okay. This is a win/win
 
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#361
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#365
#365
Guyute said:
We both obviously love following TN so I think we have more in common than we not so I hope there are no hard feelings. In fact, I agree with a lot you said.
But:
I guess the main sticking point is that you are talking about McKenzie like he is some kind of scrub. He isn't. He has had some serious injuries but he is progressing very nicely by all accounts. An offer for him isn't charity. I don't expect Butch to extend an offer to a 105 lb DT named Jennifer because her dad was Peerless Price. People act like McKenzie is in constant fear of toppling over while trying to do a girlie pushup. He's really good at football.

Again, I go to Chance Hall. 3* w/ 85 ranking per 247, lower than McKenzie. Torn Achilles his SENIOR year and he ended up a Freshman All-American. UT didn't back off him and volnation was wringing its hands over it. I only bring him up to say that a serious injury doesn't mean that you are not worth an offer. People heal ad improve. I read how highly McKenzie is regarded and if he is healthy, he is in the class of those other targets.

"So if we could get a kid who DOESN'T have a history of knee problems, why wouldn't we?"

The other recruits are very good. No argument. I still don't think we are as close on all of the OT's as you do but I may be wrong. I think we are getting the best one (Smith) and great one (Eze). I also have written so much positive about McKenzie that it is probably getting a bit creepy so I'll stop. He good.

But he also family. One of the most talented classes signed by UT in recent years was Kiffin's. I'm not saying any of the 2017 recruits are capable of a grand theft sandwich like Nu'keese but I think McKenzie is a very good player who will contribute to the team AND to the family culture and unless one of the other kids is a future hall of famer, I'll take him every day.

That is one of the main reasons why this team recruits well, plays hard and fills the stadium. They seem to have all bought in and are tight. bringing in family is a great addition.It makes them fun to watch! Have we gotten so spoiled that we forgot how boring football can be when the players aren't so committed to the team? Or when they are worried about draft stock more than coming back their senior year? Or when you would never dream of a star player changing his #23 to #7 for a hurt teammate? Or when Inky Johnson wasn't allowed around the young players?

I may be going overboard but the legacy stuff, along with bringing VFL's back into the fold, does make a difference. And if you think we haven't passed on more talented players to keep a legacy part of a class you are kidding yourself. We don't agree but that is okay. This is a win/win
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Which more talented players did we pass on to take a legacy?
 
#366
#366
Guyute said:
But Jalen McKenzie is a reach? As a legacy? With his brother being one of the most popular players to suit up in years? And him looking the part if nothing else?

Not to sound defensive but if the loss at long snapper was such an immediate need, why did we wait an entire recruiting class to pick up another kid to do the job? And the one we lost to OU was not getting an offer from UT.

Specialists are getting offers and I am honestly a fan of the kid. I've never watched longsnapper film before and, after Lovingood's, that is ALL I watch. I break down long snapper film all day, all night. Flings that acorn betwixt the legs wherever the hell he wants to, don't he?

I think the legacy culture is a really cool thing that Butch brought with him and it definitely has factored into decision making when it comes to recruiting.
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I never said that Jalen is a reach. Frankly, I don't know about his ability and his recovery after the injuries, and I doubt you do either. It's the coaches that make that decision.

All I said was that the long snapper was not a "reach." He was a need. We didn't offer Horky the year before because the coaches decided to max out the numbers on other players because we still had a long snapper with eligibility.
 
#367
#367
JacketVol said:
I stopped reading after my post until I got to this one. Must be seeing our tax money redistribution at work with these two. GO VOLS and sometimes less is more.
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I've seen you post quite a bit over the years but I can't recall any worthwhile contribution you've made in any thread. In fairness, probably only 10% of posters actually share any meaningful information (which is why I appreciate the poster "kamoshika" so much). It bothers me not that you read over my posts, as I've often wished I'd done the same with yours.

While I give you credit for at least having short posts, your daily post avg is 2.91, which is 20x more than my avg of 0.13 a day. But go ahead and speculate who on VN might be on the government dole at your own tax expense. Most people who make such exaggerated superiority claims aren't really contributing that much in tax redistribution anyway.

I own my own business so I can post whenever I am so inclined. I usually check VN on my lunch break and after I get home from the office.
 
#368
#368
Own my own business and am a doner and sorry that you have zero sense of humor. Again, a very long posts which you could just say screw you and the message would've got conveyed in a more concise manner. But of course, that is not your style.

Now, you could say I am lying about all of this. However, you could be too. Glad my self worth is not tied to you or the boards opinion. Enjoy your Amway business or is it Avon?

Darn Butchna. You're rubbing off on me.

Still a shorter post than the June bug above.
 
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#369
#369
junder13 said:
I've seen you post quite a bit over the years but I can't recall any worthwhile contribution you've made in any thread. In fairness, probably only 10% of posters actually share any meaningful information (which is why I appreciate the poster "kamoshika" so much). It bothers me not that you read over my posts, as I've often wished I'd done the same with yours.

While I give you credit for at least having short posts, your daily post avg is 2.91, which is 20x more than my avg of 0.13 a day. But go ahead and speculate who on VN might be on the government dole at your own tax expense. Most people who make such exaggerated superiority claims aren't really contributing that much in tax redistribution anyway.

I own my own business so I can post whenever I am so inclined. I usually check VN on my lunch break and after I get home from the office.
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How much time I lose with three posts a day. Not much when each post does not read like a novel.
 
#372
#372
JacketVol said:
Own my own business and am a doner and sorry that you have zero sense of humor. Again, a very long posts which you could just say screw you and the message would've got conveyed in a more concise manner. But of course, that is not your style.

Now, you could say I am lying about all of this. However, you could be too. Glad my self worth is not tied to you or the boards opinion. Enjoy your Amway business or is it Avon?

Darn Butchna. You're rubbing off on me.

Still a shorter post than the June bug above.
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Its somewhat ironic when a poster responds with "you have no sense of humor" or the like after taking a shot at another poster.

My initial post was meant to offer a differing view on offering Jalen McKenzie to a poster that felt strongly that we should. I perhaps conveyed the wrong tone in my response. His opinion is just as good as mine, they just differ. Apologies to Guyute for that.

I'll pass on the d1ck measuring contest regarding our businesses. Mine is new and offers good prospects, which is sufficient for me at this time. Although I don't think we have a future friendship blossoming here, I have no qualm with you. :hi:
 
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#374
#374
junder13 said:
Its somewhat ironic when a poster responds with "you have no sense of humor" or the like after taking a shot at another poster.

My initial post was meant to offer a differing view on offering Jalen McKenzie to a poster that felt strongly that we should. I perhaps conveyed the wrong tone in my response. His opinion is just as good as mine, they just differ. Apologies to Guyute for that.

I'll pass on the d1ck measuring contest regarding our businesses. Mine is new and offers good prospects, which is sufficient for me at this time. Although I don't think we have a future friendship blossoming here, I have no qualm with you. :hi:
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Look at it this way. I am helping you get your post count up. As far as Mac goes, I do think he is on our board like I actually posted earlier. If we miss on a few, we would probably add him if we only got two others above him. I have no issue with you either. But, as you get older and if you are married then you will eventually realize size does not matter. Carry on. :hi:

Oh, and good luck with the new business. Hard to start one these days especially if government regulation is involved.
 
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