'17 TN DL Rutger Reitmaier (Oregon commit)

#801
#801
SergeantVol said:
The stories I have from Korea, Japan, Thailand, and the Philippines.....

Also have great stories from Iraq but none involve alcohol. Got to see a lot of historical sites that are in the bible.
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Little known fact... historians dismissed the biblical account of the Assyrian empire centraled in Nineveh, recorded in the Bible, because it seemed to be missing off the face of the earth and any other historical texts...

That is until about 150 years ago (IIRC) the whole thing was discovered under Mosul, including inscriptions of people recorded in the Bible.

Just a little interesting history side note
 
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#802
#802
nicksjuzunk said:
Little known fact... historians dismissed the biblical account of the Assyrian empire centraled in Nineveh, recorded in the Bible, because it seemed to be missing off the face of the earth and any other historical texts...

That is until about 150 years ago (IIRC) the whole thing was discovered under Mosul, including inscriptions of people recorded in the Bible.

Just a little interesting history side note
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Been there, Babylon, and Ur.
 
#803
#803
SergeantVol said:
The stories I have from Korea, Japan, Thailand, and the Philippines.....

Also have great stories from Iraq but none involve alcohol. Got to see a lot of historical sites that are in the bible.
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Yup. Lots of crazy stories from those times, Thailand especially.
 
#804
#804
3rdDegreeVol said:
Right. I saw somewhere that he was an EE at Oregon? So he would count as an initial counter at Oregon and then be considered a transfer under:

14.5.2 Conditions Affecting Transfer Status. A transfer student is an individual who transfers from a collegiate institution after having met any one of the following conditions at that institution:

(a) The student was officially registered and enrolled in a minimum, full-time program of studies in any quarter or semester of an academic year, as certified by the registrar or admissions office, provided the student was present at the institution on the opening day of classes;

Skip a bit

(f) The student reported for a regular squad practice (including practice or conditioning activities that occur prior to certification per Bylaws 14.3.5.1 and 14.5.4.6.7), announced by the institution through any member of its athletics department staff, prior to the beginning of any quarter or semester, as certified by the athletics director. Participation only in picture-day activities would not constitute "regular practice";

(g) The student participated in practice or competed in a given sport even though the student was enrolled in less than a minimum full-time program of studies; or

Also:

15.5.6.3.9 Delayed Initial Counter Who Does Not Return to School. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who receives countable financial aid but whose status as an initial counter under this bylaw is delayed until the following academic year shall be counted against the initial limit the following academic year, regardless of whether the student-athlete reports for participation or attends the institution in that academic year.

So I think if he received financial aid from Oregon he's an initial counter there and would be considered a transfer to UT, only counting against the 85.
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You're wrong. There has been transfer students that count against the current class limit. There was one a few years back. Only graduate transfers only count against the 85 and not the current incoming cap unless the rules have dramatically changed.
 
#805
#805
3rdDegreeVol said:
Right. I saw somewhere that he was an EE at Oregon? So he would count as an initial counter at Oregon and then be considered a transfer under:

14.5.2 Conditions Affecting Transfer Status. A transfer student is an individual who transfers from a collegiate institution after having met any one of the following conditions at that institution:

(a) The student was officially registered and enrolled in a minimum, full-time program of studies in any quarter or semester of an academic year, as certified by the registrar or admissions office, provided the student was present at the institution on the opening day of classes;

Skip a bit

(f) The student reported for a regular squad practice (including practice or conditioning activities that occur prior to certification per Bylaws 14.3.5.1 and 14.5.4.6.7), announced by the institution through any member of its athletics department staff, prior to the beginning of any quarter or semester, as certified by the athletics director. Participation only in picture-day activities would not constitute "regular practice";

(g) The student participated in practice or competed in a given sport even though the student was enrolled in less than a minimum full-time program of studies; or

Also:

15.5.6.3.9 Delayed Initial Counter Who Does Not Return to School. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who receives countable financial aid but whose status as an initial counter under this bylaw is delayed until the following academic year shall be counted against the initial limit the following academic year, regardless of whether the student-athlete reports for participation or attends the institution in that academic year.

So I think if he received financial aid from Oregon he's an initial counter there and would be considered a transfer to UT, only counting against the 85.
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All that says is that he is a transfer, not that he is excluded from being an initial counter. It is my understanding that he would be an initial counter at both schools. Like Jave said, if that were a loophole, it would be exploited by many coaches.

It is also worth noting that if RR is transferring without a hardship circumstance, he would have to get a waiver from Oregon or would lose a year of eligibility.
 
#806
#806
3rdDegreeVol said:
Right. I saw somewhere that he was an EE at Oregon? So he would count as an initial counter at Oregon and then be considered a transfer under:

14.5.2 Conditions Affecting Transfer Status. A transfer student is an individual who transfers from a collegiate institution after having met any one of the following conditions at that institution:

(a) The student was officially registered and enrolled in a minimum, full-time program of studies in any quarter or semester of an academic year, as certified by the registrar or admissions office, provided the student was present at the institution on the opening day of classes;

Skip a bit

(f) The student reported for a regular squad practice (including practice or conditioning activities that occur prior to certification per Bylaws 14.3.5.1 and 14.5.4.6.7), announced by the institution through any member of its athletics department staff, prior to the beginning of any quarter or semester, as certified by the athletics director. Participation only in picture-day activities would not constitute "regular practice";

(g) The student participated in practice or competed in a given sport even though the student was enrolled in less than a minimum full-time program of studies; or

Also:

15.5.6.3.9 Delayed Initial Counter Who Does Not Return to School. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who receives countable financial aid but whose status as an initial counter under this bylaw is delayed until the following academic year shall be counted against the initial limit the following academic year, regardless of whether the student-athlete reports for participation or attends the institution in that academic year.

So I think if he received financial aid from Oregon he's an initial counter there and would be considered a transfer to UT, only counting against the 85.
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Kudos to you and Kristy for tracking down all of this info. I can tell you from my playing days that once you are on campus, officially rostered and attend class you are tied to that university. Your clock starts and if you leave you are considered a transfer and must sit out a year.
 
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#807
#807
Kristy* said:
All that says is that he is a transfer, not that he is excluded from being an initial counter. It is my understanding that he would be an initial counter at both schools. Like Jave said, if that were a loophole, it would be exploited by many coaches.

It is also worth noting that if RR is transferring without a hardship circumstance, he would have to get a waiver from Oregon or would lose a year of eligibility.
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If he gets a release, I believe he can still use a redshirt for the transfer.
 
#811
#811
If he's not released then he can't go on scholarship. He can enroll anywhere. If he doesn't play football then he doesn't lose a year of eligibility. However his clock has started.
 
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#812
#812
Kristy* said:
All that says is that he is a transfer, not that he is excluded from being an initial counter. It is my understanding that he would be an initial counter at both schools. Like Jave said, if that were a loophole, it would be exploited by many coaches.

It is also worth noting that if RR is transferring without a hardship circumstance, he would have to get a waiver from Oregon or would lose a year of eligibility.
Click to expand...

I don't think the regulation is particularly clear on this kind of circumstance. I kind of waffled back and forth on whether he would be an initial counter at UT. Looking at the definition of an initial counter is what lead me to think he wouldn't be.

15.02.3.1 Initial Counter. [FBS/FCS] An "initial counter" is a counter who is receiving countable financial aid in a sport for the first time. (See Bylaw 15.5.6.3 in football for instances in which the institution is permitted to defer the counting of such financial aid until the following academic year.)

Since the definition didn't specify per school, I took it to mean any financial aid anywhere. Since he isn't receiving aid for the first time (again debatable) I didn't think he's an initial counter. Otherwise he certainly fits the description under 15.5.6.3.1 Recruited Student-Athlete Entering in Fall Term, Aided in First Year. I think, just from reading the regulation, you could make a case either way. Probably the only way to really know is to find a similar situation and see how it was handled as DaddyChad said. I don't really follow recruiting enough to know, I just thought it was interesting question to research.

Given that he definitely counts at Oregon, has to sit a year regardless and still counts against the 85 limit, I'm not sure it's much of a loophole, if it is the case. I don't think too many schools will use up their initial counters to benefit another school. Maybe it would happen once or twice but then I think schools wouldn't allow the player a release to the other school.
 
#814
#814
Apparently, he told Oregon he wanted to be closer to home in Nashville. I'm sure Vandy will be glad to get him and won't care if he sits a year. Still think he's a take if Hoke can pull him to UT. He probably needs to RS, anyway.
 
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#815
#815
Kristy* said:
Was it a Big 12 specific rule that initially cost Mayfield his year of eligibility when he transferred?
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Yeah. I had no idea about that but I looked it up....

In February 2014, Oklahoma head coach Bob Stoops confirmed that Mayfield would be walking on for the Oklahoma Sooners. Mayfield was not eligible to play until the 2015 season, and lost a season of eligibility due to Big 12 Conference transfer rules following an unsuccessful appeal of his transfer restrictions.
 
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#816
#816
BigZiti09 said:
Yeah. I had no idea about that but I looked it up....

In February 2014, Oklahoma head coach Bob Stoops confirmed that Mayfield would be walking on for the Oklahoma Sooners. Mayfield was not eligible to play until the 2015 season, and lost a season of eligibility due to Big 12 Conference transfer rules following an unsuccessful appeal of his transfer restrictions.
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Gotcha. I knew he lost a year but thought it was an NCAA rule. Thanks.
 
#817
#817
3rdDegreeVol said:
I don't think the regulation is particularly clear on this kind of circumstance. I kind of waffled back and forth on whether he would be an initial counter at UT. Looking at the definition of an initial counter is what lead me to think he wouldn't be.

15.02.3.1 Initial Counter. [FBS/FCS] An "initial counter" is a counter who is receiving countable financial aid in a sport for the first time. (See Bylaw 15.5.6.3 in football for instances in which the institution is permitted to defer the counting of such financial aid until the following academic year.)

Since the definition didn't specify per school, I took it to mean any financial aid anywhere. Since he isn't receiving aid for the first time (again debatable) I didn't think he's an initial counter. Otherwise he certainly fits the description under 15.5.6.3.1 Recruited Student-Athlete Entering in Fall Term, Aided in First Year. I think, just from reading the regulation, you could make a case either way. Probably the only way to really know is to find a similar situation and see how it was handled as DaddyChad said. I don't really follow recruiting enough to know, I just thought it was interesting question to research.

Given that he definitely counts at Oregon, has to sit a year regardless and still counts against the 85 limit, I'm not sure it's much of a loophole, if it is the case. I don't think too many schools will use up their initial counters to benefit another school. Maybe it would happen once or twice but then I think schools wouldn't allow the player a release to the other school.
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There was a kid that mostly played special teams for us a few years ago that would be a better example but Kamara is another one. Started at Bama received benefits there then went to Juco then an initial counter for Tennessee. Abernathy and Wiggins were recent graduate transfers that count against the 85 but not the class limit. It would be abused and exploited if it were handled differently where coaches would be poaching other players from other programs.
 
#818
#818
DaddyChad said:
There was a kid that mostly played special teams for us a few years ago that would be a better example but Kamara is another one. Started at Bama received benefits there then went to Juco then an initial counter for Tennessee. Abernathy and Wiggins were recent graduate transfers that count against the 85 but not the class limit. It would be abused and exploited if it were handled differently where coaches would be poaching other players from other programs.
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He was an initial counter for Tennessee because he went Juco if he would have transferred and not went to Juco then he wouldn't have counted against the 25 he would have counted against the cap of 85. But of course we know Bama would have never allowed for that which is why he went to Juco first so then he could sign with Tennessee once you go to Juco you can sign with whoever you want.
 
#819
#819
nicksjuzunk said:
Little known fact... historians dismissed the biblical account of the Assyrian empire centraled in Nineveh, recorded in the Bible, because it seemed to be missing off the face of the earth and any other historical texts...

That is until about 150 years ago (IIRC) the whole thing was discovered under Mosul, including inscriptions of people recorded in the Bible.

Just a little interesting history side note
Click to expand...

Weird, my pastor brought that exact fact up in this Sunday's sermon.
 
#820
#820
all_volz said:
He was an initial counter for Tennessee because he went Juco if he would have transferred and not went to Juco then he wouldn't have counted against the 25 he would have counted against the cap of 85. But of course we know Bama would have never allowed for that which is why he went to Juco first so then he could sign with Tennessee once you go to Juco you can sign with whoever you want.
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If the athlete transfers in at the beginning of the academic year and goes on scholarship, they 100% count as an initial counter. I'm not sure where people are getting this misinformation from but again if they're an athlete on scholarship they count against your cap for the year. Graduate transfers are again the exception, they only count toward the 85 limit. If they're a mid year enrollee they used to be able to back count or count forward to the current class. If someone wants to disprove this, cite an example just one that's not a graduate transfer.
 
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#821
#821
DaddyChad said:
If the athlete transfers in at the beginning of the academic year and goes on scholarship, they 100% count as an initial counter. I'm not sure where people are getting this misinformation from but again if they're an athlete on scholarship they count against your cap for the year. Graduate transfers are again the exception, they only count toward the 85 limit. If they're a mid year enrollee they used to be able to back count or count forward to the current class. If someone wants to disprove this, cite an example just one that's not a graduate transfer.
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I just don't think this is right DC. Like I've stated in previous posts things may have changed but transfers only count against the 85 once they have started classes, been officially rostered and received financial assistance. RR was an early enrollee last spring semester and went through spring practice.
 
#822
#822
Vandy coached reading this thread finding out how the rules effect this transfer lol
 
#824
#824
gc49ervol said:
I just don't think this is right DC. Like I've stated in previous posts things may have changed but transfers only count against the 85 once they have started classes, been officially rostered and received financial assistance. RR was an early enrollee last spring semester and went through spring practice.
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Yet you won't be able to find a specific example which there would be numerous ones if this was the way the actual rule worked. It's worded weird in some parts but yet any compliance office will tell you once a kid goes on scholarship at a new university they will count as a counter against current cap unless they're a grad transfer then they only count against 85. I'm going to tap out on the discussion though because I don't think I can add anything further at this point and arguing about it just makes me look like an ass.
 
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