'18 GA QB Trevor Lawrence

[butchna]

I'm sorry, there is absolutely no evidence that Butch will trend the same way that Dabo has. I'm not saying it can't happen, but until there is something tangible that says it willhappen, and not just blind optimism, I will dismiss that theory.

Dabo had to learn how to be a HC. Butch had been one for numerous years. Not to say that there isn't a learning curve going to the SEC, but Dabo had to start from scratch. Can't stand the guy, but I guess kudos to him.

Quite a SPIN there! See? Negavols are just as skilled as Sunshine Pumpers! :lol:

 

[butchna]

Butch has to hire elite coordinators and assistants, and most importantly get out of their way and let them coach, just like Dabo did. That's how he's going to take it to the next level and win championships at Tennessee. If he doesn't do those things he most likely won't be around much longer.

I really think it's that simple.

I'd say most posters advocating giving him a chance agree with this. k:

 

[InVOLuntary]

It may or may not happen. I'm just pointing out that it's unfair to compare a guy that's had 10 years with a program to a guy that's had 4. If you are going to compare them, compare the same number of years, you get similar results. How then is Dabo a better coach?

You can also add that Butch is doing it against much stiffer competition.

 

[BigZiti09]

You can also add that Butch is doing it against much stiffer competition.

And started with a more depleted roster.

 

[ChattownVFL]

It's been four years of top recruiting classes since that depleted roster. That is no longer an excuse

 

[BigZiti09]

It's been four years since that depleted roster. That is no longer an excuse

When you are comparing the first 4 years of a tenure of two coaches, yeah, it's a factor you consider.

Looking to the future, no it is not.

 

[Outofmyvolcanmind]

This.

Dabo isn't a genius coach. He has just been given enough time to get it right and he kept improving and kept winning enough to keep the momentum and to keep the posse at bay.

Butch needs a big year next year.

And ACC minus Florida State has been absolute trash.

 

[Outofmyvolcanmind]

We may indeed, but I wouldn't bet on it based on what we've seen.

Looks like Dabo made a good jump from year 3 to year 4, followed by a 5 year run he's currently on where he's 58-9 with 2 straight Final 4 playoff appearances.

Conversely, Butch took a significant step back imo from year 3 to year 4. He enters 2017 on a pretty warm seat and nobody's saying he's primed to go on a similar run to the one Dabo is currently on. We all remember 1998 so there's hope, but it surely isn't likely.

I hope Butch does a 180 and pulls it together beginning next year and is here for a long time due to unprecedented success. But I just don't see it Kristy.

While I see your point they both inherited different situations. Clemson already had solid talent and the ACC has been down for awhile.

When Miami, Virginia Tech get back to top ten status, we'll see.

 

[McGeesPub]

In January 2012 after West Virginia hung 70 on Clemson, I'm sure they had their own McGee's Pub on their board saying "Dabo just isn't a head coach. After 4 years I see no evidence that he's ever gonna get it done as a head coach."

Your excuse for Dabo is that he had to learn how to be a head coach. Reality is that you are forming a conclusion that Butch isn't capable and then coming up with reasons why Dabo's case is different even though their trajectories are similar.

I don't know if Butch is gonna get it done. Looking more like he's come really close but missed out on a couple of games that would have gotten him over the hump but now he may never break through the perceived ceiling.

But there's definitely still a chance that he could have a breakout year and then get to a point of sustained success making future success more probable.

Again, it's not an excuse. It is reality that Dabo had never been a head coach before, and thus variance in situations with Butch that could explain how it took Dabo a few years to take off. Your line of thinking is trying to force the fact that they have similar trajectories because of what you see as a similar- but not really- series of records in their respective first four seasons.

Also, I did acknowledge the fact that it could happen with Butch. I'm not making the ironclad call that it can't, just saying that there is no compelling evidence that it will. And you certainly haven't offered any, just your usual "you think you know more, but really I know more" shtick.

 

[BigZiti09]

Again, it's not an excuse. It is reality that Dabo had never been a head coach before, and thus variance in situations with Butch that could explain how it took Dabo a few years to take off. Your line of thinking is trying to force the fact that they have similar trajectories because of what you see as a similar- but not really- series of records in their respective first four seasons.

Also, I did acknowledge the fact that it could happen with Butch. I'm not making the ironclad call that it can't, just saying that there is no compelling evidence that it will. And you certainly haven't offered any, just your usual "you think you know more, but really I know more" shtick.

The bolded is just negavol spin as Butchna stated.

 

[McGeesPub]

I'd say most posters advocating giving him a chance agree with this. k:

And I agree with that. Whether I think we've hit the ceiling with Butch or not, I've accepted the fact that he's the head coach for at least the next year. And it would be an epic waste of money to pay that buyout with our finances, so I've never advocated firing him.

I'm not unreasonable, but if Butch is going to go to the next level, i do believe that he has to make some strong, fundamental changes similar to what RS described, as well as improve in recruiting. I'm as happy as anyone that we got Smith, and it's a great start after a disappointing season,but other than that, the jury is still out on those two things happening.

 

[BigZiti09]

And I agree with that. Whether I think we've hit the ceiling with Butch or not, I've accepted the fact that he's the head coach for at least the next year. And it would be an epic waste of money to pay that buyout with our finances, so I've never advocated firing him.

I'm not unreasonable, but if Butch is going to go to the next level, i do believe that he has to make some strong, fundamental changes similar to what RS described, as well as improve in recruiting. I'm as happy as anyone that we got Smith, and it's a great start after a disappointing season,but other than that, the jury is still out on those two things happening.

Agree with all that.

I think it's gonna come down to whether or not Butch can get out of his own way. If he can't I think we are coach hunting this time next year. And if we are I will feel much better about it than I did in 2010 or 2012. Roster will be in a much better spot and hopefully we will have a great AD leading the search.

 

[McGeesPub]

The bolded is just negavol spin as Butchna stated.

Man, you really don't have any other cards to play aside from trying to build consensus against a poster, and not the actual content itself, do you?

Completely independent of Butch and how Dabo compares to him, it is a theory as to why it took him some time to get to the level he's at. I find it to be a logical one. It has nothing to do with Butch Jones, but it is an example of how their situations are different in this, a comparison of BJ and DS.

Call me a negavol if you want, that means nothing to me. I'm generally pessimistic about our trajectory, and I don't feel that's an unreasonable outlook. Things can change to improve that, but they haven't yet.

 

[BigZiti09]

Man, you really don't have any other cards to play aside from trying to build consensus against a poster, and not the actual content itself, do you?

Completely independent of Butch and how Dabo compares to him, it is a theory as to why it took him some time to get to the level he's at. I find it to be a logical one. It has nothing to do with Butch Jones, but it is an example of how their situations are different in this, a comparison of BJ and DS.

Call me a negavol if you want, that means nothing to me. I'm generally pessimistic about our trajectory, and I don't feel that's an unreasonable outlook. Things can change to improve that, but they haven't yet.

I could list a dozen reasons why Butch's situation is different as well. If Dabo get's the "well he was still learning to be a head coach" then Butch gets to play the "tougher conference, injuries, complete rebuild, less of a recruiting bases, etc"

 

[MetalVolunteer]

Seriously? The best qb in 18, the kid who's thread you just commented in, committed to Clemson.

Oh yes sir, I can read and write just fine thank you. Clemson doesn't run the shotgun all the time, like we do. Now do they run it a lot, yes. They also run way more play action, down the field plays, they have a down the field passing attack. Like I said, they run multiple sets. They also run some single back and trips. Not much, but they do incorporate it into their play calling.

Love how some of you watch football on Tv or played a little JV, think you know everything about the game

This is the exact reason why former players stay off this site.. Gtfuh.

Ever notice why VFL34 disappears for long amounts of time?

 

[MetalVolunteer]

It's as though people comment about a team they have never seen play.

Ha ha ha. Read post above

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Ha ha ha. Read post above

Hey coach..you want a job?

 

[Vol8188]

Oh yes sir, I can read and write just fine thank you. Clemson doesn't run the shotgun all the time, like we do. Now do they run it a lot, yes. They also run way more play action, down the field plays, they have a down the field passing attack. Like I said, they run multiple sets. They also run some single back and trips. Not much, but they do incorporate it into their play calling.

Love how some of you watch football on Tv or played a little JV, think you know everything about the game

This is the exact reason why former players stay off this site is because of desk jockeys like yourself want to berate people.. Gtfuh.

Ever notice why VFL34 disappears for long amounts of time?

Right man. I just don't know football.

 

[MetalVolunteer]

Hey coach..you want a job?

Naw yall have a good day and merry xmas. Got some small mouth that I need to be catching.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Butch has to hire elite coordinators and assistants, and most importantly get out of their way and let them coach, just like Dabo did. That's how he's going to take it to the next level and win championships at Tennessee. If he doesn't do those things he most likely won't be around much longer.

I really think it's that simple.

Agreed Ron. Butch needs to take a step back and hire elite coordinators to take over. Being too tight and too stubborn will not get you anywhere in the SEC. That's exactly what cost Les Mile's job at LSU. It's time to loosen up and win or start packing your bags.

 

[McGeesPub]

I could list a dozen reasons why Butch's situation is different as well. If Dabo get's the "well he was still learning to be a head coach" then Butch gets to play the "tougher conference, injuries, complete rebuild, less of a recruiting bases, etc"

And those are completely valid reasons as to why Butch didn't come in and compete for division titles. And to me, that means that Butch is on a path that is completely different than Dabo. If Butch gets to Dabo level results, frankly, it will be a better coaching job than what Dabo has done. If not, then he's obviously not our "Dabo," whatever that means. I just don't see much that's analogous between the two trajectories.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Naw yall have a good day and merry xmas. Got some small mouth that I need to be catching.

Good luck. If you don't like including Jesus in his birthday celebration, which is your right, how about just saying happy holidays?

 

[BigZiti09]

And those are completely valid reasons as to why Butch didn't come in and compete for division titles. And to me, that means that Butch is on a path that is completely different than Dabo. If Butch gets to Dabo level results, frankly, it will be a better coaching job than what Dabo has done. If not, then he's obviously not our "Dabo," whatever that means. I just don't see much that's analogous between the two trajectories.

"Our Dabo" to me means be a head coach that makes good hires, recruits, CEO of the program, let the coaches do their thing, win.

Neither Butch nor Dabo were great coordinators before they became head coaches. And I personally don't think Dabo is that great of a coach. He lets the coaches coach and he oversees.

Dabo is the coach Butch should aspire to be. Dabo has taken the path to success that Butch should be trying to follow.

That's what posters mean when they say Butch needs to be Dabo in my opinion.

 

[Kristy*]

Good luck. If you don't like including Jesus in his birthday celebration, which is your right, how about just saying happy holidays?

FYI, X is the Greek letter “chi,” the initial letter in the word Χριστός. Χριστός means “Christ.”

Informal, yes. Sacrilegious, no.

 

[McGeesPub]

"Our Dabo" to me means be a head coach that makes good hires, recruits, CEO of the program, let the coaches do their thing, win.

Neither Butch nor Dabo were great coordinators before they became head coaches. And I personally don't think Dabo is that great of a coach. He lets the coaches coach and he oversees.

Dabo is the coach Butch should aspire to be. Dabo has taken the path to success that Butch should be trying to follow.

That's what posters mean when they say Butch needs to be Dabo in my opinion.

But those qualities could describe a number of good coaches. Heck, they describe Fulmer to a T when DC and JC were here. That's not something that's unique to Dabo.

I think what people are really hoping for with the Dabo comparison is that there is a seemingly magic switch that's going to be flipped to go to the next level. This is the part that I have a hard time seeing.

And I think, honestly, that's a bit unfair to Butch. He has proven at a couple of places that he's a good HC. He has some tangible head coaching feathers in his cap. The question to me is if he is at this level. That's the part that I've argued doesn't really apply to Dabo.