19 students, 3 adults dead in Texas elementary shooting.

#3,152
#3,152
davethevol said:
Honestly, he probably could have used his vehicle to roll up on children outside and killed just as many or more. He planned to kill, and he would have found a way.
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There are numerous ways he could have done as much, or even more, damage without using a gun. But people like BB don't want to acknowledge that because it interferes with their ingrained anti-gun narrative the left has pushed for years. Imagine if the attacker had worn a suicide vest, or used another form of explosives?
 
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#3,153
#3,153
Weezer said:
Adults, no, but children? You seem to have forgotten most of the victims were kids, in a locked classroom.
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Adults would have been much more likely to successfully intervene if the only threat was a blunt instrument.

It's a dumb argument.

Let me know the next time someone enters a school, with the intent to kill a bunch of kids ... armed only with a baseball bat.
 
#3,155
#3,155
BowlBrother85 said:
Adults would have been much more likely to successfully intervene if the only threat was a blunt instrument.

It's a dumb argument.

Let me know the next time someone enters a school, with the intent to kill a bunch of kids ... armed only with a baseball bat.
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There were only two adults in the classroom. And we both know baseball bats aren't generally the weapon of choice. That doesn't change the fact a baseball bat, a madman, and a locked room full of kids can still have a very bad outcome.

I get it. You've been taught to blame the gun. But the gun wasn't the problem. The problem was the crazy ass hole wielding it.
 
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#3,156
#3,156
Weezer said:
There are numerous ways he could have done as much, or even more, damage without using a gun. But people like BB don't want to acknowledge that because it interferes with their ingrained anti-gun narrative the left has pushed for years. Imagine if the attacker had worn a suicide vest, or used another form of explosives?
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How did this start?

I linked an article to a video that Donald Trump Jr. posted on Facebook, where he stated that a bat could have killed 19 kids just as easily as the AR-15. I inferred that was dumb, and you wanted to argue the point. I never said there weren't other "numerous ways he could have done as much, or even more, damage without using a gun." My point was specific to either a baseball bat or a knife.... but you will argue anything, and then forget how the damn discussion even started.
 
#3,158
#3,158
Weezer said:
There were only two adults in the classroom. And we both know baseball bats aren't generally the weapon of choice. That doesn't change the fact a baseball bat, a madman, and a locked room full of kids can still have a very bad outcome.

I get it. You've been taught to blame the gun. But the gun wasn't the problem. The problem was the crazy ass hole wielding it.
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That was never the point. This began because Trump Jr. said that a damn baseball bat could have killed just as many people as the AR-15 did. You are so sensitive to this matter, that you will argue anything. It's stupid.
 
#3,160
#3,160
allvol123 said:
An adult male could undoubtedly do this with elementary aged children.
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Only without adult intervention, which there would be if the only weapon being used was a bat. There is no damn way police officers don't storm that school if the only thing they are up against is a bat.
 
#3,161
#3,161
BowlBrother85 said:
How did this start?

I linked an article to a video that Donald Trump Jr. posted on Facebook, where he stated that a bat could have killed 19 kids just as easily as the AR-15. I inferred that was dumb, and you wanted to argue the point. I never said there weren't other "numerous ways he could have done as much, or even more, damage without using a gun." My point was specific to either a baseball bat or a knife.... but you will argue anything, and then forget how the damn discussion even started.
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lmao You seem to be offended because I disagree with your assessment (other than Don Jr. being a moron). A knife could very easily have done as much if not more damage as a gun in this situation. It would have been harder with a baseball bat, but not impossible. Stabbing and bludgeoning are both as effective at killing as shooting. A person intent on harming others will find a way. Take away his guns and he'll just find another weapon capable of doing great harm. The problem is NOT guns.

I obviously don't know how to make you see this but take away the gun and you still have the crazy madman intent on doing great harm. The gun does not cause this. If the root cause (the crazy guy) is not dealt with, we haven't solved the problem.
 
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#3,163
#3,163
BowlBrother85 said:
Adults would have been much more likely to successfully intervene if the only threat was a blunt instrument.

It's a dumb argument.

Let me know the next time someone enters a school, with the intent to kill a bunch of kids ... armed only with a baseball bat.
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Elementary Schools are soft targets filled with unarmed women and children. A baseball bat is an ideal weapon because it’ll never need reloading and it’ll never jam.

I think the left wants this to be about guns because their policies of normalizing mental health issues have been such abject failures.
 
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#3,164
#3,164
Weezer said:
lmao You seem to be offended because I disagree with your assessment (other than Don Jr. being a moron). A knife could very easily have done as much if not more damage as a gun in this situation. It would have been harder with a baseball bat, but not impossible. Stabbing and bludgeoning are both as effective at killing as shooting. A person intent on harming others will find a way. Take away his guns and he'll just find another weapon capable of doing great harm. The problem is NOT guns.

I obviously don't know how to make you see this but take away the gun and you still have the crazy madman intent on doing great harm. The gun does not cause this. If the root cause (the crazy guy) is not dealt with, we haven't solved the problem.
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That is ridiculous, and I have explained why. The Uvalde police force would have intervened before 21 people were killed, if Salvador Ramos was only carrying a knife.
 
#3,165
#3,165
BowlBrother85 said:
Only without adult intervention, which there would be if the only weapon being used was a bat. There is no damn way police officers don't storm that school if the only thing they are up against is a bat.
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There were only two adults in the locked classroom, both women. (Not meant to be a sexist comment but they probably could have been easily overcome.)
 
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#3,166
#3,166
BowlBrother85 said:
That is ridiculous, and I have explained why. The Uvalde police force would have intervened before 21 people were killed, if Salvador Ramos was only carrying a knife.
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People are dead before the police even arrive because there has been no gunfire to instigate a 911 call in the knife scenario.
 
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#3,167
#3,167
BowlBrother85 said:
That is ridiculous, and I have explained why. The Uvalde police force would have intervened before 21 people were killed, if Salvador Ramos was only carrying a knife.
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You have no way of knowing that, and I would argue their actions demonstrate they most likely would not have. They didn't know what was going on in that room. Sure, they knew there was a man with a gun, but that's it. They had no more information than that.
 
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#3,169
#3,169
allvol123 said:
Not if you go in a room, lock the door, execute the lone adult in the room.
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It depends on how quickly the police respond to the scene. A baseball bat isn't going to keep the police from entering the school, as an AR 15 style rifle obviously did.

Hell, they would have been tripping over each other to be the first to shoot the loon with the bat. This attack lasted over an hour ... there is no way in hell that is the case with just a bat. You will probably argue that too, I guess. This is crazy.
 
#3,170
#3,170
BowlBrother85 said:
It depends on how quickly the police respond to the scene. A baseball bat isn't going to keep the police from entering the school, as an AR 15 style rifle obviously did.

Hell, they would have been tripping over each other to be the first to shoot the loon with the bat. This attack lasted over an hour ... there is no way in hell that is the case with just a bat. You will probably argue that too, I guess. This is crazy.
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You're making tons of assumptions on how the police (who failed miserably in this case) would react. Their sheer incompetence in this instance in no way supports those assumptions.
 
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#3,171
#3,171
Weezer said:
You have no way of knowing that, and I would argue their actions demonstrate they most likely would not have. They didn't know what was going on in that room. Sure, they knew there was a man with a gun, but that's it. They had no more information than that.
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What more did they need to know? They knew that there was an active shooter in the school, who was shooting children.... so they didn't enter the building. There is damn way that a baseball bat would have served as a similar deterrent to a police force! Damn, this idiocy.
 
#3,172
#3,172
BowlBrother85 said:
It depends on how quickly the police respond to the scene. A baseball bat isn't going to keep the police from entering the school, as an AR 15 style rifle obviously did.

Hell, they would have been tripping over each other to be the first to shoot the loon with the bat. This attack lasted over an hour ... there is no way in hell that is the case with just a bat. You will probably argue that too, I guess. This is crazy.
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The police aren’t responding until someone calls them. No one is calling because a 18 year old Hispanic enters this school. At the earliest, the first call is from some kid after he sees the teacher bashed in the head. At that point, he probably has at least 3 minutes to continue unencumbered.
 
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#3,173
#3,173
Weezer said:
You're making tons of assumptions on how the police (who failed miserably in this case) would react. Their sheer incompetence in this instance in no way supports those assumptions.
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Yes, I'm assuming that if the police had known that Ramos only had a baseball bat, instead of an AR 15 style rifle, they would have been confident in their ability to disarm him... and entered the building sooner than an hour and a half.
 
#3,174
#3,174
BowlBrother85 said:
What more did they need to know? They knew that there was an active shooter in the school, who was shooting children.... so they didn't enter the building. There is damn way that a baseball bat would have served as a similar deterrent to a police force! Damn, this idiocy.
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They still wouldn't have known how much danger the children were in. They were kids. They would have (if they acted competently) still used caution in an attempt to protect the children. Your fantasy that they would have stormed in, guns a blazing, is inaccurate.
 
#3,175
#3,175
allvol123 said:
The police aren’t responding until someone calls them. No one is calling because a 18 year old Hispanic enters this school. At the earliest, the first call is from some kid after he sees the teacher bashed in the head. At that point, he probably has at least 3 minutes to continue unencumbered.
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Obviously, that is not as long as the hour and a half that Ramos had with an AR 15.
 
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