19 students, 3 adults dead in Texas elementary shooting.

#1,902
#1,902
I hate to say it but unless we become even more of a police state and turn schools into prisons I don't know how much damage can truly be prevented by cutting off a few entry points or letting a couple teachers carry in class when dealing with someone who wants to cause harm, even less so if they have a plan. I don't know what the solution is. The hope is that we can get kids the help they need before they reach this point, but the truth is that even with the best support systems in the world, some people are just nuts no matter what. I don't know what to do about that.

Idk if it's been discussed in here yet but I've read this is another situation where the cops were at the scene but refusing to go in while the shooting was happening. I don't know if this is 100% reported as a fact yet, but if so, I have to say that I really don't understand why we have cops if this of all situations is one they aren't willing to take risks for. You can bust down the door of a violent felon who's potentially armed to make an arrest but you can't enter a school where little kids are currently getting murdered?

This is all obviously 100% on the shooter but if this is another Broward situation it's not a good look for law enforcement.
 
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#1,904
#1,904
theFallGuy said:
There's no way that's more than the amount killed in car wrecks. In 2018, there were 19,660 deaths among people ages 1-19 in car wrecks. The CDC is saying CDC data shows 4,368 kids died from gunshot wounds in the US in 2020.
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Yeah, 4300 kids shot and killed a year is no biggie. No need to consider sensible reforms to try to cut it to say, 3800. Just ask the parents of the 500 we aren't going to bother with.
 
#1,905
#1,905
allvol123 said:
They literally took fire opening it, the first to guys took fire and the third guy shot the perp. Where did you read a school employee to opened it?
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That is to be expected. When you do a dynamic entry you expect to receive fire, CQB is not for the faint of heart. The question is why did they spend 10-20 or 30 minutes trying to breach the door before they asked someone for a freeking key?
 
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#1,907
#1,907
lawgator1 said:
Yeah, 4300 kids shot and killed a year is no biggie. No need to consider sensible reforms to try to cut it to say, 3800. Just ask the parents of the 500 we aren't going to bother with.
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yes that's exactly what I said LG. 2,811 kids shot and killed is no big deal.

Apparently my 2018 number is off anyways.
 
#1,908
#1,908
TN Ribs said:
Republican leadership chalks this up as the cost of doing business. Evidently they care more about having easy access to AR-15's than protecting children. They are cowards.
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How does grabbing guns cure the mentally ill? Or are these guns killing people all on their lonesome? Again, both sides ignore the real issues at play in their attempts to grab headlines. The Democrats are no better than Republicans.
 
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#1,910
#1,910

The entry team was behind cinder block walls, sure the shooter could have been firing through the door but the entry team was safe enough behind the walls to spend several minutes unsuccessfully breaching the door before getting the damn key.
 
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#1,911
#1,911
MercyPercy said:
Idk if it's been discussed in here yet but I've read this is another situation where the cops were at the scene but refusing to go in while the shooting was happening. I don't know if this is 100% reported as a fact yet, but if so, I have to say that I really don't understand why we have cops if this of all situations is one they aren't willing to take risks for. You can bust down the door of a violent felon who's potentially armed to make an arrest but you can't enter a school where little kids are currently getting murdered?
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Looks like they would rather do the easy work of ticket writing and the fun Starsky & Hutch high speed chases. But when the real s^^t comes, these guys cannot be counted on to save the day. Again, the Parkland security guard should have told you that.
 
#1,912
#1,912
hog88 said:
That is to be expected. When you do a dynamic entry you expect to receive fire, CQB is not for the faint of heart. The question is why did they spend 10-20 or 30 minutes trying to breach the door before they asked someone for a freeking key?
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I can’t answer cause nothing I’ve read discusses the timeframe with that specificity.
 
#1,915
#1,915
hog88 said:
The entry team was behind cinder block walls, sure the shooter could have been firing through the door but the entry team was safe enough behind the walls to spend several minutes unsuccessfully breaching the door before getting the damn key.
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You asked me how they were going to take fire opening it with a key, as if it wasn’t possible. I pasted a source stating they did.
 
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#1,916
#1,916
hog88 said:
The entry team was behind cinder block walls, sure the shooter could have been firing through the door but the entry team was safe enough behind the walls to spend several minutes unsuccessfully breaching the door before getting the damn key.
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It would probably depend upon what he is firing through that cinder block wall too I would guess. I would bet most AR 15's could penetrate a hollow cinder block wall but they may be poured concrete walls
 
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#1,919
#1,919
hog88 said:
The entry team was behind cinder block walls, sure the shooter could have been firing through the door but the entry team was safe enough behind the walls to spend several minutes unsuccessfully breaching the door before getting the damn key.
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You saw the wall the door and the layout huh?
 
#1,920
#1,920
hog88 said:
That is to be expected. When you do a dynamic entry you expect to receive fire, CQB is not for the faint of heart. The question is why did they spend 10-20 or 30 minutes trying to breach the door before they asked someone for a freeking key?
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Thing is, dont cops train for close quarter breech situations? I mean after all the experience (sadly) we had in Iraq going from house to house, you would think this would be pretty much a given that cops most everywhere would be prepared for that - tho few I suspect are ever emotionally ready (takes some serious balls and why you give them some respect). Is this just a situation with small town cops who dont have much training (most dont) and didnt know quite how to handle such a surprise situation?
 
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#1,925
#1,925
Gandalf said:
Thing is, dont cops train for close quarter breech situations? I mean after all the experience (sadly) we had in Iraq going from house to house, you would think this would be pretty much a given that cops most everywhere would be prepared for that - tho few I suspect are ever emotionally ready (takes some serious balls and why you give them some respect). Is this just a situation with small town cops who dont have much training (most dont) and didnt know quite how to handle such a surprise situation?
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I can completely understand the lack of training aspect for the individual officers, the police force I cannot.
 
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