2008 Titans

[Bassmanbruno]

The Titans had Nicks and Britt rated nearly identical. Neither would have been reaches at #30. I like both WR's a lot.

Britt had the 3rd longest arms among the WR's at the combine. The knocks about his catching/drops is because he tends to catch the ball with his body. His strength, physicality, and long arms make him the best blocking WR in the draft, at least out of the top guys. Better leaper than Nicks, and is faster and taller. A good route runner coming out too, and can get through jams.

Nicks had the 2nd biggest hands. Has questionable work ethic/discipline after gaining nearly 20 lbs. due to not being able to work out because of an injury. He has an inconsistent motor, and he's just an average blocker. Better body control than Britt, and uses his hands to catch the ball away from his body. Isn't as fast as Britt, but is better after the catch with his good balance. Good route runner too, but it will still be hard for him to get separation consistently.

Britt is an all-around WR, and Nicks is a possession guy. As I said, I like both a lot, but with Britt being a better down-field threat and better blocker, he fits Dinger's scheme better.

Also, to clarify a few misconceptions:

I don't know who said Britt was strictly a possession guy, but that's wrong.

I think 40-times for offensive skill positions are vastly over-valued. Running good routes cause more separation than pure speed. But, Britt's 40-time of 4.47 is just fine. Maclin ran a 4.46 40, and Britt has 20 lbs. on him.

Rey Maualuga is best when he moving straight ahead. He would struggle in the Titans Cover 2. He'd have to be taken out on 3rd Down, and could be a liability with his aggressiveness. Would the Titans change their philosophy on drafting the MIKE position early if a can't miss prospect is available? Yes, but that prospect is not Maualuga.

Nicks is no more of a possession receiver than Britt. He made big play after big play this year and his YPC or YAC is evident of that if you didn't see his games.

He's only slightly slower in the 40. But like you said - 40 times don't mean crap when you put on the pads. Maclin may only run a 4.6 at the combine but he'll blow Britt/Nicks off the field in pads when you're judging football speed.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Believe me, I don't doubt that they could or would. But the general opinions seem to be that Fisher and Co. are very happy with Tulloch and what he's been doing /how he's been coming along, and that really, for Fisher's D, they like a smaller, quicker MLB in their system.

They really were never considering replacing him at this point.

If they weren't changing DC - I wouldn't consider it - but you just never know with a new guy coming in what he may tell Fisher.

 

[NashVol11]

If they weren't changing DC - I wouldn't consider it - but you just never know with a new guy coming in what he may tell Fisher.

It's not really a new guy coming in. It is a secondary coach promoted from within. This system is the Titans' system. They promoted from within because Cecil had learned it. His biggest change will be blitzing more. Other than that, it will be pretty similar to what we have seen in the past.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

It's not really a new guy coming in. It is a secondary coach promoted from within. This system is the Titans' system. They promoted from within because Cecil had learned it. His biggest change will be blitzing more. Other than that, it will be pretty similar to what we have seen in the past.

Still doesn't change the fact it is a new guy in charge - if you were going to change stuff up - now would be the time.

 

[NashVol11]

Still doesn't change the fact it is a new guy in charge - if you were going to change stuff up - now would be the time.

Fisher had no plans to do that. Even when we thought of LB as a need, it was always referring to OLBs.

 

[TitanHope]

Nicks is no more of a possession receiver than Britt. He made big play after big play this year and his YPC or YAC is evident of that if you didn't see his games.

Nicks is more of a possession receiver than Britt is when translating to the NFL. Both players made big plays for their teams, but Nicks profiles more as a possession receiver in the NFL. A possession receiver can still make plays for his team.

Britt has a better career YPC at 17.1 than Nicks at 15.7. In Britt's sophomore season, he had a 19.9 YPC average and 1,200+ receiving yards.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Nicks is more of a possession receiver than Britt is when translating to the NFL. Both players made big plays for their teams, but Nicks profiles more as a possession receiver in the NFL. A possession receiver can still make plays for his team.

Britt has a better career YPC at 17.1 than Nicks at 15.7. In Britt's sophomore season, he had a 19.9 YPC average and 1,200+ receiving yards.

What was Nicks YPC last year compared to Britt's last year?

 

[TrueOrange]

If they weren't changing DC - I wouldn't consider it - but you just never know with a new guy coming in what he may tell Fisher.

Right, no i agree on that if it was going to happen, now would be the time/case, but I'm sure Cecil got promoted b/c Fisher knew he would run the same established thing; he's not all powerful as DC

 

[TrueOrange]

It's not really a new guy coming in. It is a secondary coach promoted from within. This system is the Titans' system. They promoted from within because Cecil had learned it. His biggest change will be blitzing more. Other than that, it will be pretty similar to what we have seen in the past.

The blitzing though is going to be more of a personel thing though; pretty much thought that w/ haynesworth gone they won't be able to get as much pressure w/o some LBs coming in to help once and a while, unless one of the new DTs turns out to be a monster

But yeah, pretty much will be same Defense system and play

 

[NashVol11]

The blitzing though is going to be more of a personel thing though; pretty much thought that w/ haynesworth gone they won't be able to get as much pressure w/o some LBs coming in to help once and a while, unless one of the new DTs turns out to be a monster

But yeah, pretty much will be same Defense system and play

We knew Cecil was going to blitz more even before Haynesworth was gone.

 

[TrueOrange]

We knew Cecil was going to blitz more even before Haynesworth was gone.

Really? I got the blitzing thing was a fan-issue more than an on-the-field problem, i.e. fans heard we weren't blitzing and it got them upset, but they didnt realize that it was because the dline got so much pressure that we didnt need to - they just heard "hey wait, we're not blitzing; that's stupid" or something

I really never heard things about more blitzing till people/analysts started talking about the coaching change in combination with the fact that haynesworth probably wasn't coming back

 

[TitanHope]

What was Nicks YPC last year compared to Britt's last year?

Nicks's was 18.0 and Britt's was 15.8.

What's your point? There's no denying Nicks had a great junior season, but over their collegiate careers, Britt has him beat.

Over their careers, Britt is better than Nicks in every category aside from TD's.

It doesn't matter though. The NFL is not the Big East or ACC.

I really never heard things about more blitzing till people/analysts started talking about the coaching change in combination with the fact that haynesworth probably wasn't coming back

Yup, it's been kind of a self-made conclusion. Schwartz always approached the whole blitzing issue with, "Well, when the DL can generate pressure, we can drop guys into coverage." With AH leaving, it's been kind of an educated guess that the DL won't be able to generate enough pass-rush. Add in that Schwartz is gone and Cecil's reputation as a player, and people assume that the defense will be more aggressive. We won't really know until this season, but is it really possible to blitz less than Schwarty!

Personally, I'm not that concerned about the pass-rush as I am about the run-defense. Hopefully, all these 1-gap DT's will be able to shoot their gaps and consistently disrupt the running plays.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Nicks's was 18.0 and Britt's was 15.8.

What's your point? There's no denying Nicks had a great junior season, but over their collegiate careers, Britt has him beat.

Over their careers, Britt is better than Nicks in every category aside from TD's.

It doesn't matter though. The NFL is not the Big East or ACC.

What's my point? Lol - you're the one that brought up their 'career' YPC when it was clear Nicks wasn't the same player he is now during his first 2 years. Nicks wouldn't have been anywhere close to a first rounder if not for his past season. Britt was a whole career guy. Nicks, like Meachem, didn't hit his stride early on - so what? Didn't seem to make people think Meachem sucked and wasn't worth a first round pick. Now he's not as good even though the numbers say he has bigger play potential?

You also have to take into account (if you want to consider their whole career) that Britt played at Rutgers when Schiano had them on the up swing and they weren't so miserable. Nicks was on ONE good team... and that was his last year. Butch Davis didn't get things turned around till this past year and he still had a backup QB throwing to him a lot of the time. Nicks was drafted for what he has done recently and in the present - not because of the crap he had to deal with his freshman/sophomore season - yet he still did OK.

 

[TitanHope]

What's my point? Lol - you're the one that brought up their 'career' YPC when it was clear Nicks wasn't the same player he is now during his first 2 years. Nicks wouldn't have been anywhere close to a first rounder if not for his past season. Britt was a whole career guy. Nicks, like Meachem, didn't hit his stride early on - so what? Didn't seem to make people think Meachem sucked and wasn't worth a first round pick. Now he's not as good even though the numbers say he has bigger play potential?

So Britt should be punished because Nicks was a late bloomer? That's not exactly fair. Plus, even if we compare Nicks's breakout year to Britt's, then Britt's YPC of 19.9 is better than Nicks's of 18.0. Besides, Nicks isn't necessarily a one-year-wonder. He had a better freshman season than Britt, and his sophomore season he caught 74 balls for 958 yards and earned 1st Team All-ACC honors.

Meachum hasn't done squat in the NFL yet, and I never said Nicks wasn't as good as Britt. I think they're both going to be studs, but it's just Britt has a better chance of being a more complete receiver due to his consistent production and measurables.

You also have to take into account (if you want to consider their whole career) that Britt played at Rutgers when Schiano had them on the up swing and they weren't so miserable. Nicks was on ONE good team... and that was his last year. Butch Davis didn't get things turned around till this past year and he still had a backup QB throwing to him a lot of the time. Nicks was drafted for what he has done recently and in the present - not because of the crap he had to deal with his freshman/sophomore season - yet he still did OK.

That's a bit circumstantial for my tastes. Cause I can then say Mike Teel is a sucky QB to receive passes from (until '08 at least), and the ACC's been below average recently.

Tis a slippery slope, my friend.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

So Britt should be punished because Nicks was a late bloomer? That's not exactly fair. Plus, even if we compare Nicks's breakout year to Britt's, then Britt's YPC of 19.9 is better than Nicks's of 18.0. Besides, Nicks isn't necessarily a one-year-wonder. He had a better freshman season than Britt, and his sophomore season he caught 74 balls for 958 yards and earned 1st Team All-ACC honors.

Meachum hasn't done squat in the NFL yet, and I never said Nicks wasn't as good as Britt. I think they're both going to be studs, but it's just Britt has a better chance of being a more complete receiver due to his consistent production and measurables.



That's a bit circumstantial for my tastes. Cause I can then say Mike Teel is a sucky QB to receive passes from (until '08 at least), and the ACC's been below average recently.

Tis a slippery slope, my friend.

I never said anything about punishing Britt. Ranking Nicks higher than Britt isn't 'punishing' him.

And the ACC may have been "below" average - but that's only because they haven't had an elite team. They still are twice as good as the Big East and their defenses are still a lot better. Not as slippery as you might think. Teel > backup QB.

And Robert Meach's success (or lack of) has nothing to do with the point I was making.

 

[NashVol11]

I never said anything about punishing Britt. Ranking Nicks higher than Britt isn't 'punishing' him.

And the ACC may have been "below" average - but that's only because they haven't had an elite team. They still are twice as good as the Big East and their defenses are still a lot better. Not as slippery as you might think. Teel > backup QB.

And Robert Meach's success (or lack of) has nothing to do with the point I was making.

It doesn't make your late bloomers look too good, and was definitely not a good example to use. If Nicks is like Meachem, then we don't want him.

 

[NashVol11]

Yup, it's been kind of a self-made conclusion. Schwartz always approached the whole blitzing issue with, "Well, when the DL can generate pressure, we can drop guys into coverage." With AH leaving, it's been kind of an educated guess that the DL won't be able to generate enough pass-rush. Add in that Schwartz is gone and Cecil's reputation as a player, and people assume that the defense will be more aggressive. We won't really know until this season, but is it really possible to blitz less than Schwarty!

Personally, I'm not that concerned about the pass-rush as I am about the run-defense. Hopefully, all these 1-gap DT's will be able to shoot their gaps and consistently disrupt the running plays.

This was the main thing. People knew that Schwartz blitzed hardly ever and knew that Cecil would be more aggressive. That's just how he is. As soon as the Titans hired Cecil, the Tennessean predicted that it would be basically the same defense with more blitzing. The article itself is locked because it's in the Archives section now, but I distinctly remember that article that came out almost six weeks before Haynesworth left. Everyone expected Cecil to be more aggressive than Schwartz either way.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

It doesn't make your late bloomers look too good, and was definitely not a good example to use. If Nicks is like Meachem, then we don't want him.

The only comparison of Nicks to Meachem were that they both had great final years in college. There are tons of 'late bloomers' that have had success in the NFL. Stop being closed minded and trying to twist the argument. You know the point exactly - but are just trying to be difficult at this point.

 

[TitanHope]

I never said anything about punishing Britt. Ranking Nicks higher than Britt isn't 'punishing' him.

Disregarding Britt's previous success because Nicks didn't perform to that level until his junior season isn't punishing Britt? It taking Nicks that long to develop isn't an advantage, and you have to worry about players with only one year of elite production. But, as I said before, Nicks was 1st Team All-ACC in '07, so it's not like something suddenly clicked this season.

And the ACC may have been "below" average - but that's only because they haven't had an elite team. They still are twice as good as the Big East and their defenses are still a lot better. Not as slippery as you might think. Teel > backup QB.

The ACC was not twice as good as the Big East. It is slippery when you go away from factual evidence for circumstantial opinion. You shouldn't have to make excuses for Nicks. You should be finding flaws in Britt.

And Robert Meach's success (or lack of) has nothing to do with the point I was making.

What was your point then? He was the player you listed. If it took Nicks that long to develop in college, how is he supposed to develop in the NFL? He's not an intelligent fellow. He scored a 12 on the Wonderlic, which was the lowest of the WR's. It could very well be a mental thing.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Disregarding Britt's previous success because Nicks didn't perform to that level until his junior season isn't punishing Britt? It taking Nicks that long to develop isn't an advantage, and you have to worry about players with only one year of elite production. But, as I said before, Nicks was 1st Team All-ACC in '07, so it's not like something suddenly clicked this season.



The ACC was not twice as good as the Big East. It is slippery when you go away from factual evidence for circumstantial opinion. You shouldn't have to make excuses for Nicks. You should be finding flaws in Britt.



What was your point then? He was the player you listed. If it took Nicks that long to develop in college, how is he supposed to develop in the NFL? He's not an intelligent fellow. He scored a 12 on the Wonderlic, which was the lowest of the WR's. It could very well be a mental thing.

It's not punishing Britt. Britt has had more overall success - so yeah - he's less risky from that stand point. How is that punishing? That seems to be helping him, but since you're all over his jock you try to take one point and twist it around to make it look like I'm bashing him.

The fact that you're making an argument for the Big East isn't making your argument look any better either - hyperbole - I use it occasionally.

Point is - late bloomers are still highly regarded in the draft process as well and many of them outside Meachem have had success. Stop trying to act clueless on that point. The questions you're asking are obvious - unless you like playing these childish games. That's great about his Wonderlic - the Titans don't seem to care about that test anyway - so whatever. If they'll draft the one of the dumber QBs to play in the NFL - then I don't think a WR who scores bad on that test is really a concern or a red flag since they don't have to make reads.

But hey - I guess your guys on ESPN were wrong in ranking Nicks > Britt in best WRs on the board.

 

[TitanHope]

It's not punishing Britt. Britt has had more overall success - so yeah - he's less risky from that stand point. How is that punishing? That seems to be helping him, but since you're all over his jock you try to take one point and twist it around to make it look like I'm bashing him.

:no:

When I said punishing, I mean that Nicks shouldn't have a handicap when comparing their careers.

You said Nicks was a "late-bloomer," and you were wrong. In his sophomore year, he had 74 receptions, 6 more than in his junior year, and had 900+ yards. He earned 1st Team All-ACC honors as a sophomore. He owns 14 records at North Carolina. It wasn't like Meachem where he had 450 yards as a freshman, 380 yards as a sophomore, and then wham - 1,298 yards as a junior. Nicks is leaving North Carolina as their most decorated WR.

Don't belittle yourself with the "all over his jock" pot shot. As for twisting your words, I'm doing no such thing. If I'm misreading what you're saying, then articulate yourself more clearly.

I don't have to twist your words. I'm quite competant in regard to the NFL Draft. It's kinda my thing. :wink2:

The fact that you're making an argument for the Big East isn't making your argument look any better either - hyperbole - I use it occasionally.

I'm not making an argument as I am refuting your ignorance. Over-exaggeration or not, they're both similar competition. Britt faced talented CB's such as Mike Jenkins and Darius Butler, just as Nicks faced CB's like Alphonso Smith and Macho Harris.

Point is - late bloomers are still highly regarded in the draft process as well and many of them outside Meachem have had success. Stop trying to act clueless on that point. The questions you're asking are obvious - unless you like playing these childish games. That's great about his Wonderlic - the Titans don't seem to care about that test anyway - so whatever. If they'll draft the one of the dumber QBs to play in the NFL - then I don't think a WR who scores bad on that test is really a concern or a red flag since they don't have to make reads.

I'm not acting clueless about "late bloomers." I'm actually been quite aware of it, and have stated how you have to be cautious when looking at players with only one year of elite production. They're also called "one-year-wonders." They're not highly regarded. It's considered a negative. Yes, players who are possible one-year-wonders can be taken high, but they are taken in spite of that. Just like some players are taken in spite of character concerns or injury history.

But hey - I guess your guys on ESPN were wrong in ranking Nicks > Britt in best WRs on the board.

You'd know better than I would. I had them rated similarly as late 1st RD picks. Whichever one went where would be subjective to the teams picking between them.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

:no:

When I said punishing, I mean that Nicks shouldn't have a handicap when comparing their careers.

You said Nicks was a "late-bloomer," and you were wrong. In his sophomore year, he had 74 receptions, 6 more than in his junior year, and had 900+ yards. He earned 1st Team All-ACC honors as a sophomore. He owns 14 records at North Carolina. It wasn't like Meachem where he had 450 yards as a freshman, 380 yards as a sophomore, and then wham - 1,298 yards as a junior. Nicks is leaving North Carolina as their most decorated WR.

Don't belittle yourself with the "all over his jock" pot shot. As for twisting your words, I'm doing no such thing. If I'm misreading what you're saying, then articulate yourself more clearly.

I don't have to twist your words. I'm quite competant in regard to the NFL Draft. It's kinda my thing. :wink2:



I'm not making an argument as I am refuting your ignorance. Over-exaggeration or not, they're both similar competition. Britt faced talented CB's such as Mike Jenkins and Darius Butler, just as Nicks faced CB's like Alphonso Smith and Macho Harris.



I'm not acting clueless about "late bloomers." I'm actually been quite aware of it, and have stated how you have to be cautious when looking at players with only one year of elite production. They're also called "one-year-wonders." They're not highly regarded. It's considered a negative. Yes, players who are possible one-year-wonders can be taken high, but they are taken in spite of that. Just like some players are taken in spite of character concerns or injury history.



You'd know better than I would. I had them rated similarly as late 1st RD picks. Whichever one went where would be subjective to the teams picking between them.

He had about 400 less hards his junior year than hist first two years on campus yet MORE TDs his junior year than the first two combined and on far less catches. He isn't exactly a Robert Meachem type but his junior year was considerably better. It isn't bringing down Britt - get over it. I'm not wrong on that issue - it's up for debate on where you draw the line.. Britt was obviously more consistent with his stats. Nicks' big play ability is what truly showed up this past year that didn't as much in his first two seasons.

And Nicks doesn't have that handicap - his draft could have potentially been affected. Once again - Meachem and Nicks didn't get their draft spots based on their first two years - they got it based on their combine and junior performances - so what? Would you rather draft a player who was hot his first two years and then cooled off or the opposite?

And don't kid yourself - despite the ACC not having an elite level team - the quality of players that he faced is still quite a bit better than what Britt faced.

And I'm well aware of the fact that someone that if someone is considered a late bloomer that it can hurt their draft stock. But - like Meachem - they're still taken anyway due to the potential to play like that consistently. If a late bloomer is taken ahead of a consistent play like Britt then that speaks volumes about the kid.

 

[NashVol11]

Saying that the Titans would have taken Nicks because you would have taken Nicks is pretty ridiculous. The Titans loved Britt for a while and would very likely have taken him either way. This is such a pointless argument. Let's argue that a slower, smaller one-year wonder is better because of "big-play potential" (despite a lower YPC) and "good competition" in the ACC? Really?

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Saying that the Titans would have taken Nicks because you would have taken Nicks is pretty ridiculous. The Titans loved Britt for a while and would very likely have taken him either way. This is such a pointless argument. Let's argue that a slower, smaller one-year wonder is better because of "big-play potential" (despite a lower YPC) and "good competition" in the ACC? Really?

Never said the Titans would have taken him. But I'd say a majority of the teams (if they had needed a WR in that range) would have - and the Giants did. Not sure where you got that.

His YPC was higher his junior year. He was drafted in the 1st round due to his junior year performance. How many times do I have to say that? Meachem wasn't drafted in the first round due to his freshman or sophomore years. The Big East makes the ACC look good.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Btw - not that it really matters - but the Bengals are having Maualuga practice at OLB.