2012 GOP Nomination

#101
#101
lawgator1 said:
I am.

And I personally think marriage laws are a matter for the states.
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How about abortion? Education? Welfare? Healthcare?

There are a whole... whole bunch of things that Congress has done without clear Constitutional authority.

But I arrive at that decision because marriage has traditionally been viewed in the law as a local governance issue. I don't take that position because I couldn't get my way on it in Washington, which is what the far right has done with these social issues once they started losing at the federal level.
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You probably meant that they weren't as effective at shopping judges, right?

Abortion? Once Roe came down, suddenly it was a states' rights issue.
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It WAS a states rights issue. Every state had their own law and RvW struck them down.
Marriage? Once DOMA fell apart and the folks in Texas couldn't shut down gay marriage in California, suddenly its a states' rights issue.
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What do you mean "fell apart"? I think it was bad law but you are revising history here. California voted down gay marriage but the people were overruled by an activist judge.

DOMA polled well also.
 
#102
#102
KiffinKiller said:
I'm not arguing the articles point of view though. I just don't like those who claim to be pro-freedom..but support less freedom for things they disagree with.
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Other than the Sodomy law which preceeded his time in office... what would you cite as proof.

No one is going to be perfect. I will disagree with him on that law even if I ultimately vote for him.

I am sincerely asking for you help in finding reasons why I should not vote for him. If the GOP runs someone that I cannot vote for with a clear conscience, I am voting 3rd party in protest.
 
#103
#103
lawgator1 said:
fyp

(And incidentally, ergo the criticism so many have of Christians as absurdly hypocritical).
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You saying something simply does not make it true. Disagreeing with someone is not the same as hating them... at least not for those evil fundamental Christians you think you know so much about. Maybe you are telling on yourself. Maybe you assume that those who disagree with you are "haters" because you are?
 
#104
#104
sjt18 said:
Other than the Sodomy law which preceeded his time in office... what would you cite as proof.

No one is going to be perfect. I will disagree with him on that law even if I ultimately vote for him.

I am sincerely asking for you help in finding reasons why I should not vote for him. If the GOP runs someone that I cannot vote for with a clear conscience, I am voting 3rd party in protest.
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I'm not going to tell you who to vote for. I am confident that if you don't vote for him, you will have found your own reasons. I'm hoping for Paul personally.
 
#105
#105
KiffinKiller said:
Ignoring their disapproval of his views on big gov't, his support for anti-gay laws are all the proof they would need to paint him anti-gay.
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Besides the sodomy law, what are you talking about?
Now I don't care what his beliefs are - but when you try and pass an unconstitutional law for the sake of your beliefs - you're anti-(insert term).
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Which law (given the 10th Amendment) has he passed that is unconstitutional?

I don't think the sodomy law was "his", was it?
 
#106
#106
sjt18 said:
Other than the Sodomy law which preceeded his time in office... what would you cite as proof.

No one is going to be perfect. I will disagree with him on that law even if I ultimately vote for him.

I am sincerely asking for you help in finding reasons why I should not vote for him. If the GOP runs someone that I cannot vote for with a clear conscience, I am voting 3rd party in protest.
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He supported the sodomy law - it wasn't passed under his watch - but he supported it because it suited his christian ideals.
 
#107
#107
KiffinKiller said:
I'm not going to tell you who to vote for. I am confident that if you don't vote for him, you will have found your own reasons. I'm hoping for Paul personally.
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I would love to vote for him. If he'd be a little more realistic on foreign policy, I would.

I am just looking for your help in finding those reasons on Perry. I don't know that much about him yet.
 
#109
#109
Paul seems to be appealing to many because he's conservative on fiscal issues and liberal on social issues.

That being said, do people actually think he would be a good president? I could be wrong, but isn't this the guy who suggested using the gold standard and recently said the USA should simply declare bancruptcy?
 
#110
#110
the GOP is going to find a way to screw up the nomination, my hope now is that they can retain the House and gain a majority in the Senate.
 
#111
#111
tvolsfan said:
Paul seems to be appealing to many because he's conservative on fiscal issues and liberal on social issues.

That being said, do people actually think he would be a good president? I could be wrong, but isn't this the guy who suggested using the gold standard and recently said the USA should simply declare bancruptcy?
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He's honest.... and that bothers you?

What happens if the US declares bankruptcy and can do it orderly? One of the first things would be a sell of assets to pay off debt. IMO, US Gov't land holdings are WAY too large so gimmee that one. Another thing would be a return to the "core" business... like getting troops out of countries full well capable of defending themselves so gimmee that one too. It would require settlement of debt and a restructuring of future commitments... FOR SURE gimmee that one.

I disagree with him at times... agree more with his son.... but the guy isn't a fake. He isn't afraid to take up a position on principle then try to convince others. IOW's... he's not a politician but a statesman.
 
#112
#112
MG1968 said:
the GOP is going to find a way to screw up the nomination, my hope now is that they can retain the House and gain a majority in the Senate.
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That would probably be the best scenario anyway. The last time it was like that... the GOP actually acted like conservatives and twisted Clinton's arm to make some progress.
 
#113
#113
sjt18 said:
He's honest.... and that bothers you?

What happens if the US declares bankruptcy and can do it orderly? One of the first things would be a sell of assets to pay off debt. IMO, US Gov't land holdings are WAY too large so gimmee that one. Another thing would be a return to the "core" business... like getting troops out of countries full well capable of defending themselves so gimmee that one too. It would require settlement of debt and a restructuring of future commitments... FOR SURE gimmee that one.

I disagree with him at times... agree more with his son.... but the guy isn't a fake. He isn't afraid to take up a position on principle then try to convince others. IOW's... he's not a politician but a statesman.
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I agree he is honest, I'm just not at all sure about some of his views. I think declaring bancruptcy would be quite the disaster.
 
#114
#114
sjt18 said:
Did he say that's why he supported it? I honestly have not heard his reasons.
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He called it 'appropriate'. He is vocal leader for the rights of the traditional family, keeping gays from being scout masters, etc.

Under the law the convictions would prevent the men from getting certain jobs, and would in some states require them to register as sex offenders.
 
#115
#115
KiffinKiller said:
He called it 'appropriate'. He is vocal leader for the rights of the traditional family, keeping gays from being scout masters, etc.

Under the law the convictions would prevent the men from getting certain jobs, and would in some states require them to register as sex offenders.
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But why is it bad just because he has a different view? We all can't be cardboard cut outs of each other!
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#116
#116
tvolsfan said:
I agree he is honest, I'm just not at all sure about some of his views. I think declaring bancruptcy would be quite the disaster.
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So would you rather have someone knowing where you disagreed with them or someone who said they agreed with you then snuck around and behaved different?

I'm asking because I think we as a people have become far to tolerant of "leaders" who lie to us. I'd rather have a choice between two or more guys telling the truth. So much so that I do not plan on voting for another guy when I recognize he's lying... like Romney.
 
#117
#117
KiffinKiller said:
He called it 'appropriate'. He is vocal leader for the rights of the traditional family, keeping gays from being scout masters, etc.
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I'm really not trying to goad you but that isn't what you said before. If he said that he supported the anti-sodomy law because it fit his Christian ideals then I would have a bigger problem than if he said the law was appropriate because it reflected the values of the majority of Texans.

Also, who said that gays could not be scout leaders if the scouts and supporting parents wished to associate with them?

Do you have a right to associate with whoever you please? If so, why do you have a problem with the Scouts doing the same? Do you have a right to associate privately with people who agree with you or your values? Is it right for gov't to force you to affirm someone you disagree with?

Under the law the convictions would prevent the men from getting certain jobs, and would in some states require them to register as sex offenders.
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That is a good reason to oppose the law. I am not sure that by itself is enough to dismiss Perry as a candidate with MUCH bigger issues to solve.
 
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#118
#118
sjt18 said:
Did he say that's why he supported it? I honestly have not heard his reasons.
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Do a search on Perry/gardasil and perry/trans Texas corridor as well as Perry/Bilderberg should tell you this guy is as status quo as they come.
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#119
#119
tvolsfan said:
I'm not sure who will win the GOP nomination, but I think Obama will be getting 4 more years.
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Regardless of policies, he is the worst leader I have ever seen in any position of importance. The fact he will still be the democrat nominee is baffling to me.
 
#120
#120
I'm seriously not joking when I say this but the Democratic party is facing serious meltdown issues. The Independent voter is burned and will not go back to the Ds for a long time. If we have a decent economic recovery with the next admin, they will be re-elected and if they don't screw the late teens up, they will be able
to hand select the next President after his 2 terms
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#121
#121
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Do a search on Perry/gardasil and perry/trans Texas corridor as well as Perry/Bilderberg should tell you this guy is as status quo as they come.
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I'll be doing some research tomorrow. I know he was involved with something requiring all young women to get HPV vaccines.
 
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