2013 F Austin Nichols (Memphis Briarcrest)

[johnnybravo]

Wow Memphis wins a dog fight against Kenpom #250 ranked Lipscomb 62-56. Trailed a couple times in the second half and was a 3 point game with less than a minute left.

Any Memphis fan that felt good after Louisville game can't be feeling good after that game.

Starting to like our chances more against them January 4th.

Getting by them and Xavier would give us a lot of momentum going into SEC play. Most of us picked 3-2 against the big 5 on our schedule back in early Dec. agaist GT, VA, WS, Xavier, UM. Still very possible.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Wow Memphis wins a dog fight against Kenpom #250 ranked Lipscomb 62-56. Trailed a couple times in the second half and was a 3 point game with less than a minute left.

Any Memphis fan that felt good after Louisville game can't be feeling good after that game.

Starting to like our chances more against them January 4th.

Terrible, awful game. Cold shooting from the floor and the line, and turning the ball over STILL.

I would've gotten up an walked out of the Forum last night, I think.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Getting by them and Xavier would give us a lot of momentum going into SEC play. Most of us picked 3-2 against the big 5 on our schedule back in early Dec. agaist GT, VA, WS, Xavier, UM. Still very possible.

That's why I've been trying to stress to people not to freak out or hit the panc button, or declare this season as lost.

We win the next 3 games and we are 9-3, and most likely ranked heading into conference play.

With no Maymon I'll take it.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Terrible, awful game. Cold shooting from the floor and the line, and turning the ball over STILL.

I would've gotten up an walked out of the Forum last night, I think.

From what I heard lots of boos, and many fans left early, unhappy fan base in Memphis right now. I have to think Josh is feeling it as well, he was in multiple players faces and that's not something he usually does.

The thing about your guys turnover issues, we don't turn people over, so our defense may be a welcoming to your O. Then again, I your TO issues occur against us you have a serious problem.

Either way, I think it'll be a good game Jan. 4th.

 

[MemphisCanes]

From what I heard lots of boos, and many fans left early, unhappy fan base in Memphis right now. I have to think Josh is feeling it as well, he was in multiple players faces and that's not something he usually does.

The thing about your guys turnover issues, we don't turn people over, so our defense may be a welcoming to your O. Then again, I your TO issues occur against us you have a serious problem.

Either way, I think it'll be a good game Jan. 4th.

I watched the game and there were no boos, but people left early.

They zoned us a lot, and no one was shooting the ball well. When our big guys got to the FT line, they weren't shooting well either. Then there were a lot of turnovers, and it all adds up to an ugly game.

Hopefully it was just the Louisville hangover, mixed with looking forward to the Xmas break and a week without a game.

You may have been right about the UT game though. Not that it is a "must win" for the Tigers, but it's our last shot at making a splash in OOC games before a particularly boring and terrible C-USA slate.

If Pastner loses this one, we could rattle off an undefeated conference schedule and people would still grumble.

 

[cncchris33]

If Pastner loses this one, we could rattle off an undefeated conference schedule and people would still grumble.

As they should. Memphis is far too talented to be playing this poorly. I'm afraid Memphis fans are quickly discovering that Pastner is more Ron Zook than Urban Meyer, to use a football analogy.

 

[MemphisCanes]

As they should. Memphis is far too talented to be playing this poorly. I'm afraid Memphis fans are quickly discovering that Pastner is more Ron Zook than Urban Meyer, to use a football analogy.

We'll see. His public perception can be turned around in one single game in March. Win a tourney game, and he'll win over the Memphis faithful entirely.

I'd like to see how the season plays out, but another one and done in March isn't going to give Pastner one more year.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I watched the game and there were no boos, but people left early.

I wasn't there, but according to the CA writer for the tigers who was there, there were boos.

“@TheCAJasonSmith: and now the first boos from the home fans for Tigers going into this media timeout. 30-29, Memphis.”

 

[bleedingTNorange]

We'll see. His public perception can be turned around in one single game in March. Win a tourney game, and he'll win over the Memphis faithful entirely.

I'd like to see how the season plays out, but another one and done in March isn't going to give Pastner one more year.

Whoa that's a change of tune?

Iirc you made it sound like there was no chance he'd be canned after this year. Now you're saying lose the first game in the tourney this year and he's gone? What if he misses the tourney all together, very much a possibility?

 

[cncchris33]

We'll see. His public perception can be turned around in one single game in March. Win a tourney game, and he'll win over the Memphis faithful entirely.

I'd like to see how the season plays out, but another one and done in March isn't going to give Pastner one more year.

I agree to a point. For the most part, winning cures all ails. Limping into the tourney and losing in the round of 32 still likely leaves a sour taste in fans' mouths with the talent on that team.

I think at some point, the culmination of his body of work as a coach being 2nd rd losses in the tourney, has to catch up with him. You can't accumulate the type talent he has, and routinely underachieve with it in a lightweight conference.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Whoa that's a change of tune?

Iirc you made it sound like there was no chance he'd be canned after this year. Now you're saying lose the first game in the tourney this year and he's gone? What if he misses the tourney all together, very much a possibility?

That's not what I'm saying at all. I think there is no chance he gets fired this year. Even if he tanks and misses the tourney (which has yet to happen with his recruits), he'll still get a year with his new guys.

 

[MemphisCanes]

I agree to a point. For the most part, winning cures all ails. Limping into the tourney and losing in the round of 32 still likely leaves a sour taste in fans' mouths with the talent on that team.

I think at some point, the culmination of his body of work as a coach being 2nd rd losses in the tourney, has to catch up with him. You can't accumulate the type talent he has, and routinely underachieve with it in a lightweight conference.

Not at all. Getting to the round of 32 would give Pastner a NCAA win and another win over a "good team" if not a top 25 win.

That's progress, which is what you want to see in an extremely young coach. Whether he'll get there or not is yet to be seen.

 

[cncchris33]

Not at all. Getting to the round of 32 would give Pastner a NCAA win and another win over a "good team" if not a top 25 win.

That's progress, which is what you want to see in an extremely young coach. Whether he'll get there or not is yet to be seen.

To be clear, I'm not saying those results would cost him his job at season's end, but I think it's disingenuous to say Memphis fans would be satisfied on the whole with another early flame-out in the tourney when considering Pastner's recruiting success, despite what may appear to be slight improvement. IMO, his window for showing slight improvement is fading, and at some point in the near future, fans should expect drastic improvement. Maybe that is next year with his newest class of shiny toys, but I guarantee it had better be soon. Memphis isn't the type of program that pays millions for 2nd rd losses with top 5 talent.

 

[MemphisCanes]

To be clear, I'm not saying those results would cost him his job at season's end, but I think it's disingenuous to say Memphis fans would be satisfied on the whole with another early flame-out in the tourney when considering Pastner's recruiting success, despite what may appear to be slight improvement. IMO, his window for showing slight improvement is fading, and at some point in the near future, fans should expect drastic improvement. Maybe that is next year with his newest class of shiny toys, but I guarantee it had better be soon. Memphis isn't the type of program that pays millions for 2nd rd losses with top 5 talent.

You take improvement where you can get it. You win your conference, then you get to the tourney with an at-large. Next comes a tourney win, then a Sweet 16, Elite 8, etc.

Improvement is improvement. The season in which his teams stops improving over last year's product is when he's in trouble. That hasn't really happened yet.

 

[cncchris33]

You take improvement where you can get it. You win your conference, then you get to the tourney with an at-large. Next comes a tourney win, then a Sweet 16, Elite 8, etc.

Improvement is improvement. The season in which his teams stops improving over last year's product is when he's in trouble. That hasn't really happened yet.

The level of improvement he has shown in four years is negligible IMO, while the talent has increased significantly. Those two things don't add up, and aren't signs of a coach with his team trending upward at a rapid pace. If Memphis fans are satisfied with mediocre performances with vastly supreme talent, then they have the right coach, and I misjudged their expectations and level of patience. I'm not hating on Pastner either. I think he's a really good guy who enjoys what he's doing. I just think he is in over his head from an X's and O's standpoint, and I believe he has a difficult time establishing his authority with his players.

 

[DominicLoBianco]

Pastner is not going to get canned. C-USA is too weak and his team is too talented to not win the automatic bid to the tourney. Not to mention they play better as the year goes on. Look for them to make a run in the tourney to maybe make the sweet 16.

 

[MemphisCanes]

The level of improvement he has shown in four years is negligible IMO, while the talent has increased significantly. Those two things don't add up, and aren't signs of a coach with his team trending upward at a rapid pace. If Memphis fans are satisfied with mediocre performances with vastly supreme talent, then they have the right coach, and I misjudged their expectations and level of patience. I'm not hating on Pastner either. I think he's a really good guy who enjoys what he's doing. I just think he is in over his head from an X's and O's standpoint, and I believe he has a difficult time establishing his authority with his players.

I'm not saying that he's going to be at Memphis for 30 years, but we knew what we were getting into with Pastner.

He was 31. No HC experience. There was going to be some "on the job training". The guy doesn't have a problem with X's and O's, the problem is getting his players to perform to what their expected potential is.

He's won 25 games a year, conference championships and signed top 5 recruiting classes. You don't just fire the guy despite his teams improving, because they're not improving fast enough. That's bad business.

 

[cncchris33]

I'm not saying that he's going to be at Memphis for 30 years, but we knew what we were getting into with Pastner.

He was 31. No HC experience. There was going to be some "on the job training". The guy doesn't have a problem with X's and O's, the problem is getting his players to perform to what their expected potential is.

He's won 25 games a year, conference championships and signed top 5 recruiting classes. You don't just fire the guy despite his teams improving, because they're not improving fast enough. That's bad business.

I see your points. I would just be surprised if the majority of fans were that level-headed and patient, esp following the success of Cal.

It may be bad business to fire someone for not improving fast enough, but it happens every year.

Good discussion.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

That's not what I'm saying at all. I think there is no chance he gets fired this year. Even if he tanks and misses the tourney (which has yet to happen with his recruits), he'll still get a year with his new guys.

I must've misinterpreted this..."I'd like to see how the season plays out, but another one and done in March isn't going to give Pastner one more year."

 

[bleedingTNorange]

You take improvement where you can get it. You win your conference, then you get to the tourney with an at-large. Next comes a tourney win, then a Sweet 16, Elite 8, etc.

Improvement is improvement. The season in which his teams stops improving over last year's product is when he's in trouble. That hasn't really happened yet.

Didn't you say you expected a sweet 16 appearance this year?

If this team misses the tourney, or even losses in the first round...how is that not his team not improving from last season?

 

[Unimane]

Memphis isn't making the Sweet 16 and will get their usual fool's gold, a.k.a. the Fulmer November, by going into their below average conference in the next few weeks only to lose their first game in the tourney, again. I'm quite content to see the Tiger fans looking to keep Pastner around. At some point, you would think that someone over there would realize that he's pulling in talent that accomplishes nothing. I can only suppose Memphis officials are worried about his AAU connection with his dad drying up, but what does that matter if you have the guy you do roaming the sidelines?

 

[WhatInVolnation]

This is all one needs to hear from Austin's father to know he is a nut: "We could have gone to the ACC or anywhere, but everyone was saying Memphis is going to the Big East." I think Austin is going to go to college and play basketball, not you and him. Thus, there should be no "we" in that sentence. He obviously made the decision for his son and now thinks he should have made a different decision.

 

[UT IE 95]

This is all one needs to hear from Austin's father to know he is a nut: "We could have gone to the ACC or anywhere, but everyone was saying Memphis is going to the Big East." I think Austin is going to go to college and play basketball, not you and him. Thus, there should be no "we" in that sentence. He obviously made the decision for his son and now thinks he should have made a different decision.

What you call a nut, I call good involved parenting. This was a huge decision, it's nice to see parents involved in that process.

 

[WhatInVolnation]

What you call a nut, I call good involved parenting. This was a huge decision, it's nice to see parents involved in that process.

It's one thing to be very involved with the decision, which can be good parenting, and quite another when a parent commandeers his child's decision because he is living vicariously through his son. Saying this is disappointing because Austin was excited about playing in the Big East would be fine but saying "we" could've gone to play in any conference seems delusional and evidence of the vicarious living arrangement, which is troubling.

 

[calban]

It's one thing to be very involved with the decision, which can be good parenting, and quite another when a parent commandeers his child's decision because he is living vicariously through his son.

Not the case at all.