2013 F Austin Nichols (Memphis Briarcrest)

#2,876
#2,876
bleedingTNorange said:
You said he needed to make the sweet 16, you really want me to pull the post because I remember being shocked you expected him to win 2 games in the NCAA when he hadn't even won one.

You're 19 in the AP poll, not sure where you learned math but that wouldn't be a 11 spot drop.
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We're 15 in the coaches.

Also, please pull the post in which I said I wouldn't be satisfied with the season unless we made the sweet 16.
 
#2,877
#2,877
MemphisCanes said:
The point is that the two squads have comparable talent, whether you look at "star rating" or "NBA potential".
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Since you weren't gonna do it, I did. I looked up the "stars" for the guys getting double digit minutes on each team.

Tennessee...
5* x1
4* x 3
3* x 1
2* x 4

Our average rating....3.1

Memphis...
5* x 2
4* x 4
3* x 2

Your average rating...4.0


That's a huge difference, although I'm sure you will try to argue otherwise. For comparison, Memphis talent would be 2nd in the SEC to only Kentucky while Tennessee is 7th in the SEC by these rankings.
 
#2,878
#2,878
bleedingTNorange said:
Since you weren't gonna do it, I did. I looked up the "stars" for the guys getting double digit minutes on each team.

Tennessee...
5* x1
4* x 3
3* x 1
2* x 4

Our average rating....3.1

Memphis...
5* x 2
4* x 4
3* x 2

Your average rating...4.0


That's a huge difference, although I'm sure you will try to argue otherwise. For comparison, Memphis talent would be 2nd in the SEC to only Kentucky while Tennessee is 7th in the SEC by these rankings.
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I'm not going to agree that that's a "huge difference". Sorry. Fiddle with the numbers however you'd like.
 
#2,879
#2,879
MemphisCanes said:
I'm only comparing him to Martin because we're on the UT board.

Would you like to compare him to someone else? Calipari? He's no Calipari, I admit.

Any other coaches in Memphis history? He stacks up well.

Any other coaches in C-USA? He demolishes them.

Any other coaches in the new "America 12/Metro 12"? He stacks up pretty well.

Any others you want to cover?
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Like I said, you don't have to compare him to anyone...what are Memphis fans expectations for their program? I thought it was a team every year that was ranked and in the sweet 16 or better, thought you were trying to continue the success of Cal. If its NITs and first round NCAA knock outs then ok, like I said I misjudged the expectations you all have for your program.
 
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#2,880
#2,880
MemphisCanes said:
I'm not going to agree that that's a "huge difference". Sorry. Fiddle with the numbers however you'd like.
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Suppose Memphis started all 4* players, and the Vols started all 3* players. The star average would be the same as what he calculated. The team with the 4s is going to win most of the time.
 
#2,881
#2,881
MemphisCanes said:
This is the closest I can find to me coming on this board and stating a prediction.

I clearly say "next comes a tourney win".
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When I get home to a computer I'll try to find it...I asked for an actual prediction because you're always rewording what you said or saying its not how you meant it...you gave me and actual expectation of sweet 16...like I said I'll look for it when I get home and can use a computer not a phone.
 
#2,882
#2,882
bleedingTNorange said:
Like I said, you don't have to compare him to anyone...what are Memphis fans expectations for their program? I thought it was a team every year that was ranked and in the sweet 16 or better, thought you were trying to continue the success of Cal. If its NITs and first round NCAA knock outs then ok, like I said I misjudged the expectations you all have for your program.
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If you thought that was Memphis' history, you are mistaken.

Memphis has historically been a good program, but the 4 year Cal run was undeniably the best run in our history.

You think that rational fans expected a 30 year old HC with no prior experience to come in and continue that? Do you know how dumb that sounds, BTO?
 
#2,883
#2,883
bleedingTNorange said:
When I get home to a computer I'll try to find it...I asked for an actual prediction because you're always rewording what you said or saying its not how you meant it...you gave me and actual expectation of sweet 16...like I said I'll look for it when I get home and can use a computer not a phone.
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I did a search for posts from me using "sweet 16" and "sweet sixteen" going back to the dawn of time. No posts like you claim were returned.

From the end of last season, I've been pretty adamant that I want a tourney win this season and I'd be satisfied, as that would be progress.
 
#2,884
#2,884
MemphisCanes said:
I'm not going to agree that that's a "huge difference". Sorry. Fiddle with the numbers however you'd like.
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The difference between 2nd most talented in the SEC and 7th most talented...yea that a pretty big difference. Sorry the numbers dont support your opinion, or the 4 NBAers you have compared to our 2.
 
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#2,886
#2,886
MemphisCanes said:
If you thought that was Memphis' history, you are mistaken.

Memphis has historically been a good program, but the 4 year Cal run was undeniably the best run in our history.

You think that rational fans expected a 30 year old HC with no prior experience to come in and continue that? Do you know how dumb that sounds, BTO?
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The first couple years a pass absolutely, and I'm not saying fire him today...but if he doesn't make a sweet 16 next year I would think his seat would have to start getting hot.

No I don't think he should match Cals success right off the bat, but I thought you would want your program close to that level again. If you're content with NITs and first round losses like I've said OK i apparently misjudged the Memphis fan base and expectations.

Tennessee has historically been a NIT or NCAA one and done program...the Bruce era was historic for Tennessee. I'm giving Martin time, but I wouldn't be content reverting back to NITs and first round knock out ls every year...I'd like to see the program move close to where Bruce had it and turn into a very good basketball program.

Maybe thats just me.
 
#2,887
#2,887
MemphisCanes said:
You're free to your opinion man.
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And you're free to your opinion however wrong or factually incorrect it may be...the difference is mine is backed with numbers an facts to support my opinion, yours is simply your opinion with no facts just a slightly biased opinion on the situation.
 
#2,888
#2,888
MemphisCanes said:
If you thought that was Memphis' history, you are mistaken.

Memphis has historically been a good program, but the 4 year Cal run was undeniably the best run in our history.

You think that rational fans expected a 30 year old HC with no prior experience to come in and continue that? Do you know how dumb that sounds, BTO?
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I don't disagree with any of this, but at the time he was hired, the UM fans on here seemed to think he'd pick up right where Cal left off, while I and other Vols questioned the wisdom of hiring someone with no HC experience. I'm not saying you were on here with those expectations, as that was four years ago. But, it's funny, where I sit, to see a UM fan refer to the past four seasons as acceptable and continuous improvement, and cite Pastner's prior inexperience. I'm not going to tell you what you should accept, and I don't disagree that there's been improvement since the 2010 season. But, it does get back to BTO's question - what are UM's expectations for men's basketball?
 
#2,890
#2,890
bleedingTNorange said:
The first couple years a pass absolutely, and I'm not saying fire him today...but if he doesn't make a sweet 16 next year I would think his seat would have to start getting hot.

No I don't think he should match Cals success right off the bat, but I thought you would want your program close to that level again. If you're content with NITs and first round losses like I've said OK i apparently misjudged the Memphis fan base and expectations.

Tennessee has historically been a NIT or NCAA one and done program...the Bruce era was historic for Tennessee. I'm giving Martin time, but I wouldn't be content reverting back to NITs and first round knock out ls every year...I'd like to see the program move close to where Bruce had it and turn into a very good basketball program.

Maybe thats just me.
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I'd like to reach the Cal level of success again under Pastner, but do you realize how lofty that bar is?

128 wins in 4 years.
4 consecutive Sweet 16s.
3 consecutive Elite 8s.
1 Final Four
1 National Runner up.

How many other coaches, over their entire career can boast those sorts of numbers? Maybe half-a-dozen?

Why is it fair to think a 30 something coach with 4 years of experience would be able to approach this?

It's been 3 years since we've been to the NIT, and with our new recruiting class, we don't project to be back anytime soon, so I don't know why you keep throwing out the NIT.

If Pastner continues to improve like he has, then Sweet 16s will come, Elite 8s will come, hopefully Final Fours and more will come.

I'm satisfied with progress and improvement.
 
#2,891
#2,891
ukvols said:
I don't disagree with any of this, but at the time he was hired, the UM fans on here seemed to think he'd pick up right where Cal left off, while I and other Vols questioned the wisdom of hiring someone with no HC experience. I'm not saying you were on here with those expectations, as that was four years ago. But, it's funny, where I sit, to see a UM fan refer to the past four seasons as acceptable and continuous improvement, and cite Pastner's prior inexperience. I'm not going to tell you what you should accept, and I don't disagree that there's been improvement since the 2010 season. But, it does get back to BTO's question - what are UM's expectations for men's basketball?
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There are dumb fans everywhere and in every fanbase.

Just look at Bamacheats.

See my previous post for my general expectations.
 
#2,892
#2,892
MemphisCanes said:
I'd like to reach the Cal level of success again under Pastner, but do you realize how lofty that bar is?

128 wins in 4 years.
4 consecutive Sweet 16s.
3 consecutive Elite 8s.
1 Final Four
1 National Runner up.

How many other coaches, over their entire career can boast those sorts of numbers? Maybe half-a-dozen?

Why is it fair to think a 30 something coach with 4 years of experience would be able to approach this?

It's been 3 years since we've been to the NIT, and with our new recruiting class, we don't project to be back anytime soon, so I don't know why you keep throwing out the NIT.

If Pastner continues to improve like he has, then Sweet 16s will come, Elite 8s will come, hopefully Final Fours and more will come.

I'm satisfied with progress and improvement.
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Actually according to the NCAA that Final 4 appearance and Runner up finish never happened
 
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#2,894
#2,894
MemphisCanes said:
I'd like to reach the Cal level of success again under Pastner, but do you realize how lofty that bar is?

128 wins in 4 years.
4 consecutive Sweet 16s.
3 consecutive Elite 8s.
1 Final Four
1 National Runner up.

How many other coaches, over their entire career can boast those sorts of numbers? Maybe half-a-dozen?

Why is it fair to think a 30 something coach with 4 years of experience would be able to approach this?

It's been 3 years since we've been to the NIT, and with our new recruiting class, we don't project to be back anytime soon, so I don't know why you keep throwing out the NIT.

If Pastner continues to improve like he has, then Sweet 16s will come, Elite 8s will come, hopefully Final Fours and more will come.

I'm satisfied with progress and improvement.
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Once again, not saying he should be fired today, simply saying I wouldn't be overly excited with the job he has done to this point. If he makes the dance next year and loses in the first round, or wins but gets destroyed liked this year in the 2nd round...are you still satisfied with that?
 
#2,895
#2,895
bleedingTNorange said:
Once again, not saying he should be fired today, simply saying I wouldn't be overly excited with the job he has done to this point. If he makes the dance next year and loses in the first round, or wins but gets destroyed liked this year in the 2nd round...are you still satisfied with that?
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I'm not. He hasn't beaten any teams that he shouldn't have, and he's still struggling to wrangle all the egos of the recruits that he's getting. I'm far from ready to throw the bank at him and give him a lifetime contract.

If he picks up stakes and heads to USC, or elsewhere, it won't be program crushing like the Cal loss was. We'll most likely keep the Memphis kids in our recruiting class, and go find another coach.

But in all objectivity, Pastner is doing a better job in his first 4 years than any other coach in Memphis history, and that's including Cal. I'm a big proponent of delayed gratification, so I'm willing to give the guy the ability to learn on the job.
 
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