2013 F Austin Nichols (Memphis Briarcrest)

[bleedingTNorange]

Dude, if you disagree, then fine, throw up some links where Stokes and McRae aren't taken in the next 3 NBA drafts.

But stop with the broken record stuff. We all heard you the first time.

Apparently you didn't because you continue to say they're NBAers and compare them to Goodwin and Thomas when nobody else in the nba mock draft business or scouting business agrees.

I'm telling you tennessee doesn't have 2 guys projected in mock drafts I'm not sure how much simpler I truly can make that for you.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Glass houses, man.

The point is that you're not a very good judge of mediocrity, if you're claiming Pastner is mediocre yet Martin is not.

You yourself said he needed to make the sweet 16 to meet expectations this year...he didn't yet you're somehow trying to argue now that he has met expectations.

He has underachieved in all 4 years in most people (outside of Memphis fans) opinion. He sure as hell hasn't overachieved that's for damn sure, and I truly don't see how you can say he didn't underachieve this year. They were preseason top 25, and will finish outside the top 25 most likely.

Once again try not to turn this to Martin and UT, we are talking about Memphis.

 

[ukvols]

We can't have a rational discussion if you're going to make up rules.

If you want to talk to me, you're going to have to admit that when someone says "the sky is blue", you have to concede the point.

Top 25 means Top 25.

I don't understand why it's so hard to grasp the concept of the true, current Top 25 being the Committee's Top 25.

You beat an 11 seed who happens to be 25th in the last Coaches Poll and are selling it as a Top 25 win.

 

[CAVol]

Year One- hardly enough scholarship players to run a practice, plus the guys he does have see him as "their buddy the assistant coach" rather than an HC. Makes the NIT and washes out in the second game.

Year Two- Brings in a great recruiting class but struggles with a team of all freshman. Needs an AQ to make it to the dance (suspected, we'll never know if Memphis could've gotten the at-large). Plays well against a good Zona squad but loses.

Year Three- A sophomore squad who wins the C-USA reg. season and tournament handily, but loses to any big name they play (and several mediocre teams as well: Murray St., UTEP). Matched up against a comparable St. Louis squad in NCAA first round and loses. Will Barton is drafted in the first round.

Year Four- The narrative is "can he win in the NCAA's and can he beat top 25 teams"? Memphis eats C-USA alive for the second year in a row, but loses most significant OOC games. Pastner finally gets his first NCAA win and Top 25 win, though. Has another top 4 recruiting class coming in, along with a bevvy of seniors for next season.

I see improvement. He's not on the Shaka Smart/Brad Stephens parabola of success as a young coach, but not many young coaches are.

Props for using parabola in a post.

 

[BigZiti09]

I'm guessing this is nothing more than Pastner's agent floating his name out there.

But even that doesn't make much sense. Surely, they wouldn't give that guy a raise or extension based off this season regardless if other teams are interested in him. Also, USC and UCLA could do better. Pastner's next job will be an assistant somewhere IMO.

If I'm USC, I make a run at the UCLA guy.

 

[ukvols]

I'm guessing this is nothing more than Pastner's agent floating his name out there.

But even that doesn't make much sense. Surely, they wouldn't give that guy a raise or extension based off this season regardless if other teams are interested in him. Also, USC and UCLA could do better. Pastner's next job will be an assistant somewhere IMO.

If I'm USC, I make a run at the UCLA guy.

I doubt USC would have to make much of a "run" to get Howland. He has no team to coach right now.

 

[BigZiti09]

I doubt USC would have to make much of a "run" to get Howland. He has no team to coach right now.

Just meant that they should try and hire him. I know he's out of work. USC wouldn't be the only one calling him. He will have opportunities. So yeah, they would have to make a "run" at him. He could easily turn them down.

I guess you're implying that phrase can only be used for working coaches. Idk.

 

[ukvols]

Just meant that they should try and hire him. I know he's out of work. USC wouldn't be the only one calling him. He will have opportunities. So yeah, they would have to make a "run" at him. He could easily turn them down.

I guess you're implying that phrase can only be used for working coaches. Idk.

I'm saying that I don't think it would be hard for USC to get Howland if they really want him.

 

[BigZiti09]

I'm saying that I don't think it would be hard for USC to get Howland if they really want him.

Depends on how many schools are in the market for a new coach and if he wants to go to USC. I'd make him tell me no if I were USC. He may want to sit out a year and see if he gets a better offer.

 

[Saxeus Montis]

If Pastner leaves then UT may very well have a slim chance at Nichols, depending on the memphis hire. However, not sure I agree w/all the Pastner bashing. Pastner is third in IA HISTORY (106) behind Stevens (117) and Everett Case (NCSt 107) for wins in first four years. Regardless of conference or era that is amazing. He has also owned Martin and at least made tourney appearances. Not the best bench coach yet and hasn't got big wins, but an ace recruiter which may very well be just important in the long run. I for one will wait until current Vols coach can beat memphis, make the dance, and/or bring in the quality and volume of talent it takes to compete at the highest level before bashing an up and comer who's primary flaws seem to be inexperience and fact that he coaches memphis.

 

[bamacheats]

If Pastner leaves then UT may very well have a slim chance at Nichols, depending on the memphis hire. However, not sure I agree w/all the Pastner bashing. Pastner is third in IA HISTORY (106) behind Stevens (117) and Everett Case (NCSt 107) for wins in first four years. Regardless of conference or era that is amazing.

No it isn't. His conference is the exact reason its not "amazing".

He has also owned Martin and at least made tourney appearances. Not the best bench coach yet and hasn't got big wins, but an ace recruiter which may very well be just important in the long run. I for one will wait until current Vols coach can beat memphis, make the dance, and/or bring in the quality and volume of talent it takes to compete at the highest level before bashing an up and comer who's primary flaws seem to be inexperience and fact that he coaches memphis.

Possibly the most idiotic phrase in sports. I guess by that logic, Pastner is better than Donovan since Cuonzo "owns" Donovan?
:crazy:

 

[MemphisCanes]

Apparently you didn't because you continue to say they're NBAers and compare them to Goodwin and Thomas when nobody else in the nba mock draft business or scouting business agrees.

I'm telling you tennessee doesn't have 2 guys projected in mock drafts I'm not sure how much simpler I truly can make that for you.

DraftExpress: Mock Draft

McRae listed as 28th pick, Stokes as 36th. Or does this not exist?

For note there are three Tigers listed in the last 8 picks of this draft, two of which are Tarik Black and Joe Jackson. I'm dubious on their NBA potential, but here they are.

 

[MemphisCanes]

I don't understand why it's so hard to grasp the concept of the true, current Top 25 being the Committee's Top 25.

You beat an 11 seed who happens to be 25th in the last Coaches Poll and are selling it as a Top 25 win.

You don't possibly see why anyone could be confused by this?

 

[MemphisCanes]

You yourself said he needed to make the sweet 16 to meet expectations this year...he didn't yet you're somehow trying to argue now that he has met expectations.

He has underachieved in all 4 years in most people (outside of Memphis fans) opinion. He sure as hell hasn't overachieved that's for damn sure, and I truly don't see how you can say he didn't underachieve this year. They were preseason top 25, and will finish outside the top 25 most likely.

Once again try not to turn this to Martin and UT, we are talking about Memphis.

I said he needed to win an NCAA game this season. Don't try to put words in my mouth when you're floundering for a point.

From the beginning of the season, I said he needed to win his conference, make the tourney and win a game. That's progress and that's what happened.

We were preseason top 25, and will probably finish in the top 25. We're not falling 11 spots for beating the 25th ranked team in the nation, and losing to the 8th (or whatever MSU is/will be).

 

[MemphisCanes]

If Pastner leaves then UT may very well have a slim chance at Nichols, depending on the memphis hire. However, not sure I agree w/all the Pastner bashing. Pastner is third in IA HISTORY (106) behind Stevens (117) and Everett Case (NCSt 107) for wins in first four years. Regardless of conference or era that is amazing. He has also owned Martin and at least made tourney appearances. Not the best bench coach yet and hasn't got big wins, but an ace recruiter which may very well be just important in the long run. I for one will wait until current Vols coach can beat memphis, make the dance, and/or bring in the quality and volume of talent it takes to compete at the highest level before bashing an up and comer who's primary flaws seem to be inexperience and fact that he coaches memphis.

Well said.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

DraftExpress: Mock Draft

McRae listed as 28th pick, Stokes as 36th. Or does this not exist?

For note there are three Tigers listed in the last 8 picks of this draft, two of which are Tarik Black and Joe Jackson. I'm dubious on their NBA potential, but here they are.

If you go back I did say 2013 not 2014, but fair enough we can go by 2014. So Memphis has 4 NBAers according to that site (plus Goodwin) and Tennessee has 2? Is that what you're saying?

On a side note...never thought I'd see the day where Jordan McRae was a projected first round pick, love the development we have witnessed of this kid. Also very surprised how high they have stokes, but happy for him.

 

[MemphisCanes]

If you go back I did say 2013 not 2014, but fair enough we can go by 2014. So Memphis has 4 NBAers according to that site (plus Goodwin) and Tennessee has 2? Is that what you're saying?

I don't really care whether its 2013 or 2014 or 2015, that's not my point.

The point is that the two squads have comparable talent, whether you look at "star rating" or "NBA potential".

Don't get lost in the minutiae.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

If Pastner leaves then UT may very well have a slim chance at Nichols, depending on the memphis hire. However, not sure I agree w/all the Pastner bashing. Pastner is third in IA HISTORY (106) behind Stevens (117) and Everett Case (NCSt 107) for wins in first four years. Regardless of conference or era that is amazing. He has also owned Martin and at least made tourney appearances. Not the best bench coach yet and hasn't got big wins, but an ace recruiter which may very well be just important in the long run. I for one will wait until current Vols coach can beat memphis, make the dance, and/or bring in the quality and volume of talent it takes to compete at the highest level before bashing an up and comer who's primary flaws seem to be inexperience and fact that he coaches memphis.

For some reason you're doing what the other Memphis fans all do...in your defense of Pastner you start comparing to Martin, why? Being objective in 2 years Martin has made the NIT in both years, is that your level of expectation?? Judge Pastner on the job he has done, not comparing him to coaches at Tennessee....in 4 years his team has not met the pre season rankings that were set for his team. Theres over expectation arguments for his first year ok, but this years team was top 20 and had the talent to be in the sweet 16 or better...instead they almost lost to a 11 seed and then got embarrassed by a Michigan State team, I wouldnt think this year ultimately met expectations.

Now maybe I have the wrong perception of Memphis fans and what they expect out of their basketball program...I figured the expectation was to produce a top 20 team every year that was a NCAA sweet 16 or better pretty much every year...if the expectation is actually NITs and first round NCAA losses than Pastner appears to be doing just fine and you should give him an extension.

 

[BigZiti09]

I don't really care whether its 2013 or 2014 or 2015, that's not my point.

The point is that the two squads have comparable talent, whether you look at "star rating" or "NBA potential".

Don't get lost in the minutiae.

I watched UT - Memphis live this season. The talent level top to bottom isn't close. Memphis > Tennessee. If you're comparing best two players then yeah, they are much closer and UT may even have the edge there. Top to bottom, Memphis is more talented and definitely has better athletes.

 

[ukvols]

You don't possibly see why anyone could be confused by this?

The Selection Committee's decisions matter now. The Coaches Poll is irrelevant now. The Coaches Poll means absolutely nothing right now. St. Mary's is #46 in the only rankings system that matters now.

That's the best I can do.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I don't really care whether its 2013 or 2014 or 2015, that's not my point.

The point is that the two squads have comparable talent, whether you look at "star rating" or "NBA potential".

Don't get lost in the minutiae.

So Memphis has 4 NBAers and Tennessee has 2 but the talent is equal? Ok.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I said he needed to win an NCAA game this season. Don't try to put words in my mouth when you're floundering for a point.

From the beginning of the season, I said he needed to win his conference, make the tourney and win a game. That's progress and that's what happened.

We were preseason top 25, and will probably finish in the top 25. We're not falling 11 spots for beating the 25th ranked team in the nation, and losing to the 8th (or whatever MSU is/will be).

You said he needed to make the sweet 16, you really want me to pull the post because I remember being shocked you expected him to win 2 games in the NCAA when he hadn't even won one.

You're 19 in the AP poll, not sure where you learned math but that wouldn't be a 11 spot drop.

 

[bamacheats]

Well said.

:lolabove:

One of the greatest insults I've seen in a while. You know you're clueless when this clown gives you kudos.

 

[MemphisCanes]

For some reason you're doing what the other Memphis fans all do...in your defense of Pastner you start comparing to Martin, why? Being objective in 2 years Martin has made the NIT in both years, is that your level of expectation?? Judge Pastner on the job he has done, not comparing him to coaches at Tennessee....in 4 years his team has not met the pre season rankings that were set for his team. Theres over expectation arguments for his first year ok, but this years team was top 20 and had the talent to be in the sweet 16 or better...instead they almost lost to a 11 seed and then got embarrassed by a Michigan State team, I wouldnt think this year ultimately met expectations.

Now maybe I have the wrong perception of Memphis fans and what they expect out of their basketball program...I figured the expectation was to produce a top 20 team every year that was a NCAA sweet 16 or better pretty much every year...if the expectation is actually NITs and first round NCAA losses than Pastner appears to be doing just fine and you should give him an extension.

I'm only comparing him to Martin because we're on the UT board.

Would you like to compare him to someone else? Calipari? He's no Calipari, I admit.

Any other coaches in Memphis history? He stacks up well.

Any other coaches in C-USA? He demolishes them.

Any other coaches in the new "America 12/Metro 12"? He stacks up pretty well.

Any others you want to cover?

 

[MemphisCanes]

You take improvement where you can get it. You win your conference, then you get to the tourney with an at-large. Next comes a tourney win, then a Sweet 16, Elite 8, etc.

Improvement is improvement. The season in which his teams stops improving over last year's product is when he's in trouble. That hasn't really happened yet.

This is the closest I can find to me coming on this board and stating a prediction.

I clearly say "next comes a tourney win".