2013 F Austin Nichols (Memphis Briarcrest)

Agree in order to go top 15 range, he has to develop scoring mid range and out. That's what I'm saying, just didn't say it specifically. If he has a good year this year 14/10 let's say, but he doesn't show much of a mid range or outside game, and he's projected late first round so retuns. However, he tests the waters and the scout tell him he really needs to improve his outside shot.

So he returns for his junior year, shows off a good mid range game, and flashes the ability to hit the 3. You're saying his stock wouldn't improve? That's what I'm saying, that his stock can still go up if he returns junior year, it's not like his stock has to reach its highest point after sophomore year.

Actually I said the exact opposite.
 
I disagree - he had way more talent around him and took on a different role - but let's not argue that. What about Henson, Barnes and Zeller from UNC? They all hurt themselves also?

I don't think Barnes did, but the others I'd agree with.

It just depends on the player, their game etc etc.

All 3 you listed have the size or athleticism jarnell doesn't. He is going to have to rely on monster numbers, or an improved outside game to go high.

If he has a decent sophomore year, he absolutely can return senior year and improve his stock.
 
Ok I'm gonna try and condense what I'm saying cause this has gone all sorts of ways...

Bravo, the links you posted the best I see jarnell is 27th. So...If you said to jarnell, hey I can guarantee you to go late 1st round after this year. OR...you can return junior year, improve your mid range, your outside shot, and athleticism some. While doing this you can play with your buddy Austin Nichols on a team that has a legitimate chance of making a final four run. After your junior year I can guarantee you a top 20 pick. However, you could get injured or not improve which would hurt your draft stock.

Which do you think he chooses. It seems to me you think he'd go option 1, but IMO its option 2. This may be where it is that we are differing.
 
Ok I'm gonna try and condense what I'm saying cause this has gone all sorts of ways...

Bravo, the links you posted the best I see jarnell is 27th. So...If you said to jarnell, hey I can guarantee you to go late 1st round after this year. OR...you can return junior year, improve your mid range, your outside shot, and athleticism some. While doing this you can play with your buddy Austin Nichols on a team that has a legitimate chance of making a final four run. After your junior year I can guarantee you a top 20 pick. However, you could get injured or not improve which would hurt your draft stock.

Which do you think he chooses. It seems to me you think he'd go option 1, but IMO its option 2. This may be where it is that we are differing.

One of the links had Jarnell going in the teens. The other 2 had him going at 25 and 27. Point is that some draft boards do have him listed as a first round pick. These of course are not the top draft board, but they are some that I googled and were able to find. You said you haven't seen any with Jarnell in the first round and asked for links, so I provided just a few.

Hopefully, Jarnell will be able to show his ability to score and rebound around the basket this year and bring his ft shot up 15-20%, if not, then this whole conversation is pointless because he will not be anywhere near a first round pick. We probably agree that his midrange game will be some what weak and will keep Jarnell from moving up from late first round to mid first round at the end of the year. If he shows a good midrange game this year, then I think he moves up to mid first round and conversation is again pointless because he will definitely go being that high.

So, basically what we are saying is Jarnell will show this year that he is very good around the basket and he has exceptional post game ability with a somewhat weak midrange game that could land him at best a 20+ NBA draft pick.

He could come back another year to try to improve his midrange game and improve his draft stock? If he doesn't show improvement, then his draft stock will go down. It won't be the same and it will not improve. It's already been posted that the 2013 class is expected much weaker than the 2014.

If he has 14/10 numbers this year and improves this to say 18/13 without showing any difference in a midrange game improvement the following year, then I don't think his draft stock improves. He has still showed what he is capable of and also shown that he might not improve on his limitations at all.

Now his numbers his Junior year may not be that much of an improvement (unless he can step out and shoot a jumper), but still with that we may not see that much of an improvement because of the players around him. He has Maymon and Hall playing with him this year. You can not double team Stokes with either of them out on the floor. Stokes could see a nothing but double team when on offense his Junior year without those 2 on the roster.
 
One of the links had Jarnell going in the teens. The other 2 had him going at 25 and 27. Point is that some draft boards do have him listed as a first round pick. These of course are not the top draft board, but they are some that I googled and were able to find. You said you haven't seen any with Jarnell in the first round and asked for links, so I provided just a few.

Hopefully, Jarnell will be able to show his ability to score and rebound around the basket this year and bring his ft shot up 15-20%, if not, then this whole conversation is pointless because he will not be anywhere near a first round pick. We probably agree that his midrange game will be some what weak and will keep Jarnell from moving up from late first round to mid first round at the end of the year. If he shows a good midrange game this year, then I think he moves up to mid first round and conversation is again pointless because he will definitely go being that high.

So, basically what we are saying is Jarnell will show this year that he is very good around the basket and he has exceptional post game ability with a somewhat weak midrange game that could land him at best a 20+ NBA draft pick.

He could come back another year to try to improve his midrange game and improve his draft stock? If he doesn't show improvement, then his draft stock will go down. It won't be the same and it will not improve. It's already been posted that the 2013 class is expected much weaker than the 2014.

If he has 14/10 numbers this year and improves this to say 18/13 without showing any difference in a midrange game improvement the following year, then I don't think his draft stock improves. He has still showed what he is capable of and also shown that he might not improve on his limitations at all.

Now his numbers his Junior year may not be that much of an improvement (unless he can step out and shoot a jumper), but still with that we may not see that much of an improvement because of the players around him. He has Maymon and Hall playing with him this year. You can not double team Stokes with either of them out on the floor. Stokes could see a nothing but double team when on offense his Junior year without those 2 on the roster.

I asked for some "legit" boards, meaning known, and respected boards, none of those are. I can create my own deft board and have golden top 10, but doesnt make it respectable, which is why I specifically said legitimate board.

Agreed if he comes back his junior year and improves his numbers but game looks no different that his stock won't improve. However; I see it very unlikely that that's the case.

IMO, if he tests the waters and scouts say jarnell you're late first round, if you improve your mid range and perimeter shot to a consistent level, you're a top 15 guy hell listen. Dudes work ethic is ridiculous, I dont see it being likely that if e came back he'd sit on his a$$ content and not bust his butt to try to work on the things NBA scouts advised him to work on.

I guess you're saying you think basically this year is his limit, sophomore year is the best he can be in college, right? That's what I really jut disagree with. If he chose to come back I see him busting his a$$ to improve on what scouts told him, and he'd ultimately at worst keep his stock the same but more likely improve it some.

Jmo, agree to disagree I suppose.
 
I asked for some "legit" boards, meaning known, and respected boards, none of those are. I can create my own deft board and have golden top 10, but doesnt make it respectable, which is why I specifically said legitimate board.

Agreed if he comes back his junior year and improves his numbers but game looks no different that his stock won't improve. However; I see it very unlikely that that's the case.

IMO, if he tests the waters and scouts say jarnell you're late first round, if you improve your mid range and perimeter shot to a consistent level, you're a top 15 guy hell listen. Dudes work ethic is ridiculous, I dont see it being likely that if e came back he'd sit on his a$$ content and not bust his butt to try to work on the things NBA scouts advised him to work on.

I guess you're saying you think basically this year is his limit, sophomore year is the best he can be in college, right? That's what I really jut disagree with. If he chose to come back I see him busting his a$$ to improve on what scouts told him, and he'd ultimately at worst keep his stock the same but more likely improve it some.

Jmo, agree to disagree I suppose.

I'm pretty sure that he is already being told exactly what he needs to work on in order to get drafted. He doesn't need to wait until the end of the season to see his limitations on what keeps his stock from improving. I'm sure he is already busting his ass at trying to improve those things right now. And no, if the draft is much deeper in tallent in 2014 vs. 2013 then he probable will not improve his stock or keep it the same if he doesn't improve his midrange game. More than likely he drops. Probably drops enough to not get guaranteed money. If he's already working his ass off now to improve his limitations and we don't see that much of an improvement in his mid range game, then the smart thing for him is probably leave when he has the "best" opportunity.
 
I asked for some "legit" boards, meaning known, and respected boards, none of those are. I can create my own deft board and have golden top 10, but doesnt make it respectable, which is why I specifically said legitimate board.

Agreed if he comes back his junior year and improves his numbers but game looks no different that his stock won't improve. However; I see it very unlikely that that's the case.

IMO, if he tests the waters and scouts say jarnell you're late first round, if you improve your mid range and perimeter shot to a consistent level, you're a top 15 guy hell listen. Dudes work ethic is ridiculous, I dont see it being likely that if e came back he'd sit on his a$$ content and not bust his butt to try to work on the things NBA scouts advised him to work on.

I guess you're saying you think basically this year is his limit, sophomore year is the best he can be in college, right? That's what I really jut disagree with. If he chose to come back I see him busting his a$$ to improve on what scouts told him, and he'd ultimately at worst keep his stock the same but more likely improve it some.

Jmo, agree to disagree I suppose.

You didn't ask for "legit" boards. You said you haven't seen him on "any" board. I was able to google and find a half dozen and brought it to YOUR attention. I also told you that they were not the top boards. I pointed that out to you personally. Now you can say that he is on some NBA draft boards but not the legit boards.
 
I'm pretty sure that he is already being told exactly what he needs to work on in order to get drafted. He doesn't need to wait until the end of the season to see his limitations on what keeps his stock from improving. I'm sure he is already busting his ass at trying to improve those things right now. And no, if the draft is much deeper in tallent in 2014 vs. 2013 then he probable will not improve his stock or keep it the same if he doesn't improve his midrange game. More than likely he drops. Probably drops enough to not get guaranteed money. If he's already working his ass off now to improve his limitations and we don't see that much of an improvement in his mid range game, then the smart thing for him is probably leave when he has the "best" opportunity.

So he can't improve his junior year, this year is the absolute best that jarnell can be. Once again, that's your opinion and we disagree, I think he can improve, you don't, simple as that.

I can name quite a few guys who have improved their game each year they've returned.
 
So he can't improve his junior year, this year is the absolute best that jarnell can be. Once again, that's your opinion and we disagree, I think he can improve, you don't, simple as that.

I can name quite a few guys who have improved their game each year they've returned.

Where have I ever said that he can't improve any year? You can always improve. Hopefully, he will improve throughout his entire career. So, where did I say that he couldn't.

Can he improve enough in a much stronger draft to considerably improve his NBA draft stock? Maybe he can, the odds will be against him though, but it's not impossible. He will show that he has NBA talent around the basket even if a bit under sized. He will probably show that he will need to improve his mid range game. If he can get a first round pick this year with those limitations, then I think he should go. I do not think that he will improve his shot enough to considerably increase his stock from year 2 to 3 with a much deeper class. With Maymon and Hall gone, I also think CCM will want him to stay around the basket and do what Stokes can do to win instead of stepping out and taking an occational 3.
 
You didn't ask for "legit" boards. You said you haven't seen him on "any" board. I was able to google and find a half dozen and brought it to YOUR attention. I also told you that they were not the top boards. I pointed that out to you personally. Now you can say that he is on some NBA draft boards but not the legit boards.

Really I didn't ask for a "legit" board? Here's the quote of mine that you quoted and replied to with the links, notice what I asked for, it's capitalized.

I was simply saying not everyone takes the money, that's all, calm down.

And I'm not arguing, it's a conversation. You think stokes is gone, I was curious why. As I said, you won't find a LEGIT BOARD that has him as a lottery pick, you may not even find on where he's a first rounder. Hell, I've seen some that don't even have him on their board at all.

If you're saying, if he has a huge year his stock will rise, well duh. Same can be said for McRae as well, if he blows up and averages 18ppg his stock will go up. I expect stokes to be solid, but don't think he'll get enough touches to put up monster numbers that would be required to be a top 15 pick.

I'm expecting around 14/10 from him, and IMO that doesn't vault him into top 15. Are you expecting better numbers, or expecting those numbers to be good enough.

Hes undersized that's the problem. Who has come out in the last 5 years with his size and game? 2 people come to mind, Blair and Sullinger, one won't 19iirc and the other went 2nd round, and both guys put up much better numbers then 14/10.

Not some of the top draft boards, but Stokes name is already on some. *Again, doesn't matter until he plays this year. *He doesn't have to put up huge numbers to get drafted. *Seems like the trend is to draft some of the young players on potential ala Orten.

PROSPECT CENTRAL: 2013 NBA Mock Draft

2013 NBA Mock Draft – One Year Early! (Just the Lottery) | The Big Lead

2013 NBA Mock Draft
 
Where have I ever said that he can't improve any year? You can always improve. Hopefully, he will improve throughout his entire career. So, where did I say that he couldn't.

Can he improve enough in a much stronger draft to considerably improve his NBA draft stock? Maybe he can, the odds will be against him though, but it's not impossible. He will show that he has NBA talent around the basket even if a bit under sized. He will probably show that he will need to improve his mid range game. If he can get a first round pick this year with those limitations, then I think he should go. I do not think that he will improve his shot enough to considerably increase his stock from year 2 to 3 with a much deeper class. With Maymon and Hall gone, I also think CCM will want him to stay around the basket and do what Stokes can do to win instead of stepping out and taking an occational 3.

It's why you seemed to be insinuating.

So you think he's a guaranteed first round pick if he stays around the basket, shows basically the same type of game he showed last year, and averages decent numbers (say 14/10)?

Cause I don't. Too undersized and as we've seen in the past, undesrsized post guys, who aren't that athletic, and have no outside game don't typically go very high unless big numbers are put up. Who is similar to him that has gone 1st round lock recently?
 
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Really I didn't ask for a "legit" board? Here's the quote of mine that you quoted and replied to with the links, notice what I asked for, it's capitalized.

You're so predictable. I've been waiting for that quote. You initially asked me for any board. Yes you did come back later with the "legit" board after I gave you several.

You're original quote to me was?

Exactly, that article says nothing other than a college scout on him. I want to see NBA people saying he's top 10, you won't find it.

Yes if he has a big year it'll go up, that's kind of common sense, and I've already said that. Hell forgot top 10, show me a board saying he's even a lottery pick?

That's what I did. Showed you several. One had him as a lottery pick. I didn't try to pass these off as what you call "legit". I told you right off they were not, but just showing you that he is getting some first round recognition. Geez you will argue about anything.
 
It's why you seemed to be insinuating.

So you think he's a guaranteed first round pick if he stays around the basket, shows basically the same type of game he showed last year, and averages decent numbers (say 14/10)?

Cause I don't. Too undersized and as we've seen in the past, undesrsized post guys, who aren't that athletic, and have no outside game don't typically go very high unless big numbers are put up. Who is similar to him that has gone 1st round lock recently?

Where did I say he was guaranteed first round? He's not guaranteed anything. I think if he is PROJECTED as a first rounder this year, then he should go because of how deep the draft will be the following year. That is all I have ever said.
 
You're so predictable. I've been waiting for that quote. You initially asked me for any board. Yes you did come back later with the "legit" board after I gave you several.

You're original quote to me was?



That's what I did. Showed you several. One had him as a lottery pick. I didn't try to pass these off as what you call "legit". I told you right off they were not, but just showing you that he is getting some first round recognition. Geez you will argue about anything.

I asked for a legit board because I realized you were going to find some board created by a 10 year old and link it. So I asked for a legit board, you quoted that, and posted boards. If they're bogus boards there really is no point in linking them, as I said I can make one and put trae top 10, and link it. Does that mean he's actually getting first round recognition?

Look at the top of my quote you just posted, where you said I said any board...I said I want to see NBA people saying this, thus not some bum sitting in their basement creating their own. I want to see NBA scouts projecting him 1st round, you conveniently ignored that part.
 
Where did I say he was guaranteed first round? He's not guaranteed anything. I think if he is PROJECTED as a first rounder this year, then he should go because of how deep the draft will be the following year. That is all I have ever said.

That's even worse. So if jarnell is PROJECTED late first round he should go? Seriously? It's very common for these undersized guys to fall, so if he's projected late 1st, its very likely he could fall to 2nd round.

No guarantee in 2nd round, and actually very likely he may not even make a roster. So pass up a chane to improve, a chance to play with your friends and a shot at a deep tourny run, for the chance of being a late first rounder, but with a risk of falling into the second round?

Don't see that happening, he's much smarter than that, and family isn't hurting for money.

You think he goes if he's projected anywhere in 1st round, I think only way he goes is if he's projected top 20. Like I've said, just agree to disagree.
 
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I asked for a legit board because I realized you were going to find some board created by a 10 year old and link it. So I asked for a legit board, you quoted that, and posted boards. If they're bogus boards there really is no point in linking them, as I said I can make one and put trae top 10, and link it. Does that mean he's actually getting first round recognition?

Look at the top of my quote you just posted, where you said I said any board...I said I want to see NBA people saying this, thus not some bum sitting in their basement creating their own. I want to see NBA scouts projecting him 1st round, you conveniently ignored that part.

This is what you do in a nutshell. This is BO on every board arguing with anyone and everyone about any stupid thing.

Just for $hit$ and grins, let's break down your post.

Exactly, that article says nothing other than a college scout on him. I want to see NBA people saying he's top 10, you won't find it.
Simple statement dogging a link that I provided where I plainly said when providing a link:

Not a recruiting board, but Stokes will get a lot of attention if he has a big year.

That's fine. I didn't pass it off as anything so. You said directly after the last quote:

Yes if he has a big year it'll go up, that's kind of common sense, and I've already said that. Hell forgot top 10, show me a board saying he's even a lottery pick?

And that's exactly what I did. I showed you a board. Again, I didn't pass it off as a "legit" board. I plainly stated when posting links of 3 different NBA draft sites that they were not the top sites. But then you continually try to dog me and try to belittle me for doing EXACTLY what you asked for.
 
I asked for a legit board that's all, you posted ones that were garbage. It's not an insult to you, I'm insulting the boards. I'd love to see legitimate people calling jarnell at top 20 guy RIGHT NOW, but they're not. Like i said, its kind of childish of you to post ridiculous boards like that when you knew what I meant. I said multiple times, NBA people, none of those boards are legitimate NBA people.

As I said, agree to disagree. We can bring this thread up at the end of the year when the draft rolls around. If he's projected anywhere round 1, you say gone, I say only way is if he's top 20, and even then he may still return.

Well see.
 
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That's even worse. So if jarnell is PROJECTED late first round he should go? Seriously? It's very common for these undersized guys to fall, so if he's projected late 1st, its very likely he could fall to 2nd round.

No guarantee in 2nd round, and actually very likely he may not even make a roster. So pass up a chane to improve, a chance to play with your friends and a shot at a deep tourny run, for the chance of being a late first rounder, but with a risk of falling into the second round?

Don't see that happening, he's much smarter than that, and family isn't hurting for money.

You think he goes if he's projected anywhere in 1st round, I think only way he goes is if he's projected top 20. Like I've said, just agree to disagree.

Please do not say directed towards me "You think" because most of the time when you say "you think" is not what I think.

What I do think is that he should listen to his coach and his "agent to be" and determine what is best for Jarnell. If he is projected late first round next year and he is told that more than likely due to the potentially stacked draft in 2014 that his status this coming year might be his best shot. If so, then yes he should take the chance.
 
Please do not say directed towards me "You think" because most of the time when you say "you think" is not what I think.

What I do think is that he should listen to his coach and his "agent to be" and determine what is best for Jarnell. If he is projected late first round next year and he is told that more than likely due to the potentially stacked draft in 2014 that his status this coming year might be his best shot. If so, then yes he should take the chance.

Wouldn't contacting an agent while still in school and not declared be a major violation and jeopardize his eligibility?

That's why I say if he's top 20 ok, because I don't see him being much higher than that no matter what in the 2014 draft. However, if he's late 1st, maybe 2nd round for 2013 as you're saying, I think he can definitely still go higher than that in the 2014 class, so he should return.
 
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Wouldn't contacting an agent while still in school and not declared be a major violation and jeopardize his eligibility?

That's why I say if he's top 20 ok, because I don't see him being much higher than that no matter what in the 2014 draft. However, if he's late 1st, maybe 2nd round for 2013 as you're saying, I think he can definitely still go higher than that in the 2014 class, so he should return.

I'm not certain if contacting an agent is a violation. Of course hiring an agent is. I wouldn't be surpised if most of the top talent doesn't have "indirect" contact with "agents to be".
 
Honestly, it would matter if Jarnell was projected to be first round. It all depends on who declares. Jarnell's game will speak for itself in the end, but the NBA is enamored with "potential." Every smart player will look at the boards and see who is declaring. Scotty Hopson did that and (although I wanted him to stay and play for CCM) he made the best decision for himself. It was the weakest draft in years and the lockout had people staying in school. If Scotty were to be drafted, it would have been last year. Jarnell could average Jared Sullenger's numbers and someone that averaged Andre Drummond's numbers could go significantly higher. I'd say its a safe bet that Jarnell will test the draft waters after this season, but I hope he returns.
 
Here are some suggested guidelines to follow with Nichols. Take off the UT sunglasses (BTO may need a crowbar) and look at EVERYTHING from Nichols' POV:

1) Stop worrying about Duke and Coach K (reputation only). Distance and PT are facts. Wouldn't you want to official with K for a day?

2) Don't dismiss Auburn so lightly. Big fish, small pond appeals to some; Nichols is definitely "different". NBA drafts players, not schools. Sandy State in Yuma, AZ? NBA will find you. (I made that up) If he takes official to Auburn, go to DEFCON 4 (lowest). Should he and Hubbs visit together, UT could be in deep poop.

Pre-emptive strike would be to official them to UT ASAP; together could be game-changer. Don't wait for particular FB game (kids won't know the difference); get to 'em before Auburn (Auburn's thinking the same thing about UT).

3) Jarnell-card doesn't carry much weight. Argue stays-goes all day; still don't know. Sister? Same; not a real factor when you're deciding career/next 10 - 15 years of your life.

4) Vandy BB is 50%; distance and education 50%.

Only time I ever consider/hear UM/Nichols is when you guys bring it up. Like Duke, wait 'til you have something to actually worry about. Hubbs/Nichols same school is leap of faith; UT or Auburn? At least you're tied for 1st!

Not gonna' argue; just my outsider opinion.
 

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