2014 JUCO Center Stephen Hurt

#51
#51
VolAce said:
CCM lost my respect at the end of this season. I don't buy the whole depleted roster talk, he came in at an upswing, not a downswing like Pearl. Regardless, if he was that great of a coach/recruiter it really should not have mattered because one recruiting class is all it takes in college basketball. I would have continued to support his mediocrity in hopes of this being a breakout season since we do have the best returning lineup in probably 5 years. However, his victim attitude, how he handeled us being "snubbed", and the fact the team gave up in SEC tourney play and the ensuing NIT tournament tells me we have not found our coach. He doesn't have a winning attitude, probably a big reason he has never had a tourney appearance as a head coach. I hope he does well next year and I eat crow, I just don't see it realistically happening.
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This debate again. Pearl came in on a "downswing" because Buzz was a bad coach. Pearl inherited great guard play that had experience. Martin did not. It is like a broken record. One recruiting class can matter, but it is not the very first one. Basketball recruiting starts earlier than any other sport, and he had two months to fill a roster. This year, you will see how good or bad he is because he has had time to develop relationships.

That said, it is time for Martin to have a good year and get to the dance. He needs to fix the PG problem.
 
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#52
#52
jp1 said:
"In over his head" is the most overused comment on Volnation. Get a dang clue dude. I would agree if he was stinking it up but he took an under talented team and got them to overachieve his first year and finish about where they should have his 2nd year. This year will tell us one way or the other but for you to already make your judgement tells me you know little about the game.
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You can add, "they just gave up." Hate it. So overused when our team loses. Sometimes the other team plays and executes better, but it is not because "we gave up."
 
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#53
#53
jp1 said:
"In over his head" is the most overused comment on Volnation. Get a dang clue dude. I would agree if he was stinking it up but he took an under talented team and got them to overachieve his first year and finish about where they should have his 2nd year. This year will tell us one way or the other but for you to already make your judgement tells me you know little about the game.
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When you get out-coached by grant in what turned out to be a must win game then yes it looks like you don't belong. Also he has been unable to get the team off to a good start early. The first year I understand but the second year a slow start shouldnt have happened. I understand maymon's loss was huge but there was enough talent to win 2 or 3 more games and get a tourney spot. I have defended conzo most of the time he was here, but Im just not sure he is the right coach now. This year will let us know. If no tourney bid then he should be fired.
 
#54
#54
crparker21 said:
When you get out-coached by grant in what turned out to be a must win game then yes it looks like you don't belong. Also he has been unable to get the team off to a good start early. The first year I understand but the second year a slow start shouldnt have happened. I understand maymon's loss was huge but there was enough talent to win 2 or 3 more games and get a tourney spot. I have defended conzo most of the time he was here, but Im just not sure he is the right coach now. This year will let us know. If no tourney bid then he should be fired.
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Maybe you are right. We might as well cut bait now cause we got beat by Alabama and got off to a bad start. Clearly in over his head.
 
#55
#55
This what Cuonzo really thinks...

1311875540_delta_force_chuck_norris__deal_with_it.gif
 
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#56
#56
jp1 said:
Maybe you are right. We might as well cut bait now cause we got beat by Alabama and got off to a bad start. Clearly in over his head.
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Are you having trouble comprehending? I never said he should be gone or he cant get it done this year. I am just less confident because of these things. He has this year to get something done or he is gone. Almost all the fans agree with that. The alabama game stuck out because we played them 3 times. Grant found a weakness of stokes defending the pick and roll. They ran the same playbthe whole game and Martin never changed strategy on defending it. Hebjust continuee to watch them get beat by the same play. I hope martin turns it around, I dont want to go through another coaching search. I think Martin is a great human being and is trying his best. Im just not sure he is a great coach.
 
#58
#58
crparker21 said:
When you get out-coached by grant in what turned out to be a must win game then yes it looks like you don't belong. Also he has been unable to get the team off to a good start early. The first year I understand but the second year a slow start shouldnt have happened. I understand maymon's loss was huge but there was enough talent to win 2 or 3 more games and get a tourney spot. I have defended conzo most of the time he was here, but Im just not sure he is the right coach now. This year will let us know. If no tourney bid then he should be fired.
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Yeah, the slow start in year 2 shouldn't have happened what with losing your All-SEC post and leader at the start. Yeah, that doesn't have an effect whatsoever.
 
#59
#59
VolAce said:
CCM lost my respect at the end of this season. I don't buy the whole depleted roster talk, he came in at an upswing, not a downswing like Pearl. Regardless, if he was that great of a coach/recruiter it really should not have mattered because one recruiting class is all it takes in college basketball. I would have continued to support his mediocrity in hopes of this being a breakout season since we do have the best returning lineup in probably 5 years. However, his victim attitude, how he handeled us being "snubbed", and the fact the team gave up in SEC tourney play and the ensuing NIT tournament tells me we have not found our coach. He doesn't have a winning attitude, probably a big reason he has never had a tourney appearance as a head coach. I hope he does well next year and I eat crow, I just don't see it realistically happening.
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WRONG!!! He inherited a team that lost Hopson & Harris. He inherited a team of role players. He recruited his first season what he could get to fill a roster. He had a good recruiting class his second season. He is just now entering his 3rd season with another good recruiting class coming this fall. He has upgraded his recruiting each season. There are still areas that need to be addressed, but it takes time which you like most fans don't seem to grasp. UT is not Kansas,Kentucky or Duke. 5 STAR recruits are not standing in line to come. Occasionally we get a few (Stokes & Hubbs). Stop acting like CCM has had this team for 5 or 6 yrs with no progress having been made. The team he has this fall will and should make the dance given they find a decent point guard and Maymon is able to stay healthy. If you want CCM replaced so badly after just 2 seasons tell us who you want as HC?
 
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#60
#60
SlyStone said:
WRONG!!! He inherited a team that lost Pippen & Harris. He inherited a team of role players. He recruited his first season what he could get to fill a roster. He had a good recruiting class his second season. He is just now entering his 3rd season with another good recruiting class coming this fall. He has upgraded his recruiting each season. There are still areas that need to be addressed, but it takes time which you like most fans don't seem to grasp. UT is not Kansas,Kentucky or Duke. 5 STAR recruits are not standing in line to come. Occasionally we get a few (Stokes & Hubbs). Stop acting like CCM has had this team for 5 or 6 yrs with no progress having been made. The team he has this fall will and should make the dance given they find a decent point guard and Maymon is able to stay healthy. If you want CCM replaced so badly after just 2 seasons tell us who you want as HC?
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His second recruiting was not good and this most recent one was eighth in the SEC......not exactly knocking it out of the park.
 
#61
#61
SlyStone said:
WRONG!!! He inherited a team that lost Pippen & Harris. He inherited a team of role players. He recruited his first season what he could get to fill a roster. He had a good recruiting class his second season. He is just now entering his 3rd season with another good recruiting class coming this fall. He has upgraded his recruiting each season. There are still areas that need to be addressed, but it takes time which you like most fans don't seem to grasp. UT is not Kansas,Kentucky or Duke. 5 STAR recruits are not standing in line to come. Occasionally we get a few (Stokes & Hubbs). Stop acting like CCM has had this team for 5 or 6 yrs with no progress having been made. The team he has this fall will and should make the dance given they find a decent point guard and Maymon is able to stay healthy. If you want CCM replaced so badly after just 2 seasons tell us who you want as HC?
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But pippen had to be in his late 40's though so he was not the same player as when he was winning championships with the Bulls. LOL
 
#63
#63
volbeast33 said:
His second recruiting was not good and this most recent one was eighth in the SEC......not exactly knocking it out of the park.
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You do know Stokes is considered part of the second recruiting class? It wasn't a great class, but better than the first. From what has been said he is in on some great talent for 2013-14. If I can get one 5 star player along with some 3 star players in my 2 back to back years I think I can roll with that.
 
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#64
#64
volbeast33 said:
His second recruiting was not good and this most recent one was eighth in the SEC......not exactly knocking it out of the park.
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He signed a top 30 player a top 150 player and a borderline top 150 player. Ranked 8th or not that's a good class considering who we brought back. Next years class if this season goes well will be good if not very good. Cornish is a top 150 player and consencous 4star player. He needs to just win and watch more players come.
 
#66
#66
SlyStone said:
You do know Stokes is considered part of the second recruiting class? It wasn't a great class, but better than the first. From what has been said he is in on some great talent for 2013-14. If I can get one 5 star player along with some 3 star players in my 2 back to back years I think I can roll with that.
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Yeah I do and he is a good player but the rest have serious deficiencies to their game....it was a decent class strictly bc stokes can be included.
 
#67
#67
SJAVol32 said:
He signed a top 30 player a top 150 player and a borderline top 150 player. Ranked 8th or not that's a good class considering who we brought back. Next years class if this season goes well will be good if not very good. Cornish is a top 150 player and consencous 4star player. He needs to just win and watch more players come.
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It was a class that was barely ranked top 30- 40 depending on service....that's not getting it done......I really think top 150 is a little low to be considered a good get and in basketball needs to be top 100.... That doesn't mean that the guys below 100 can't be stars but they have increased weaknesses in their games.

I have read some negative things about Cornish but I hope he explodes this summer and becomes a dominant player.
 
#68
#68
volbeast33 said:
It was a class that was barely ranked top 30- 40 depending on service....that's not getting it done......I really think top 150 is a little low to be considered a good get and in basketball needs to be top 100.... That doesn't mean that the guys below 100 can't be stars but they have increased weaknesses in their games.

I have read some negative things about Cornish but I hope he explodes this summer and becomes a dominant player.
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If all your getting is 140-150 range and lower, I agree that's likely not gonna be enough talent. However, when you're pulling some top 50 guys (stokes & Hubbs) to go along with those top 150 guys that's plenty. Cornish is closer to top 100 than 150 depending on service, 119 iirc.
 
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#69
#69
bleedingTNorange said:
If all your getting is 140-150 range and lower, I agree that's likely not gonna be enough talent. However, when you're pulling some top 50 guys (stokes & Hubbs) to go along with those top 150 guys that's plenty. Cornish is closer to top 100 than 150 depending on service, 119 iirc.
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I disagree.....I think most of the guys we get need to be top 100 to reach our goals.....it's not like ZO is a proven talent evaluator.
 
#70
#70
VolGee4 said:
This debate again. Pearl came in on a "downswing" because Buzz was a bad coach. Pearl inherited great guard play that had experience. Martin did not. It is like a broken record. One recruiting class can matter, but it is not the very first one. Basketball recruiting starts earlier than any other sport, and he had two months to fill a roster. This year, you will see how good or bad he is because he has had time to develop relationships.

That said, it is time for Martin to have a good year and get to the dance. He needs to fix the PG problem.
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Yea, I feel like you and I have had this debate before, while we may disagree with each other I think we both respect the others stance on the issue...


SlyStone said:
WRONG!!! He inherited a team that lost Hopson & Harris. He inherited a team of role players. He recruited his first season what he could get to fill a roster. He had a good recruiting class his second season. He is just now entering his 3rd season with another good recruiting class coming this fall. He has upgraded his recruiting each season. There are still areas that need to be addressed, but it takes time which you like most fans don't seem to grasp. UT is not Kansas,Kentucky or Duke. 5 STAR recruits are not standing in line to come. Occasionally we get a few (Stokes & Hubbs). Stop acting like CCM has had this team for 5 or 6 yrs with no progress having been made. The team he has this fall will and should make the dance given they find a decent point guard and Maymon is able to stay healthy. If you want CCM replaced so badly after just 2 seasons tell us who you want as HC?
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Hey buddy, if you dont think highly rated players want to come to UT, you should check out Pearls first full recruiting class in 2006, and then take a look at 2010's reloading class...despite the character flaws, those guys had a lot of basketball talent and were very highly rated. CCM started off with at least twice as many top 150 players than Pearl did. If all of Pearls leftover players were role players, then why did they continue to start into last season after CCM had a full recruiting cycle? If Maymon was healthy last year, CCMs starting 5 would have had 4 Pearl era players. Ok, I know Pearl is gone, thats not the problem...he is just the benchmark for comparison. There is no comparison to Pearls success after two years coaching UT and CCMs success, Pearl was leaps and bounds ahead of where CCM is now.

Regardless, what I just wrote only shows why CCM is a mediocre coach. I would still stand behind a mediocre coach at UT. Its his attitude that gets me. I cant stand behind a coach who plays victim. Life happens, you can either cry about it or roll with the punches. I dont want a coach teaching our players its ok to make excuses and rest easy because we were "snubbed". You play to win everytime you step onto the floor, no excuses, take accountability, take responsibility. CCM has not shown those qualities so it is very difficult for me to give him my full support and I am not sold he is our solution.
 
#71
#71
Need to keep in mind that basketball recruiting is a different animal than football. Take Jaquan Lyle for example. Pearl was recruiting this kid and he's a 2014 recruit. I think a lot of fans don't realize this.

You don't just swoop in and sign top talent regularly. Martin's first class was built in a few weeks, not over a few years. I think the 2014 class will tell us how good he can be on the recruiting trail.
 
#73
#73
BigZiti09 said:
Need to keep in mind that basketball recruiting is a different animal than football. Take Jaquan Lyle for example. Pearl was recruiting this kid and he's a 2014 recruit. I think a lot of fans don't realize this.

You don't just swoop in and sign top talent regularly. Martin's first class was built in a few weeks, not over a few years. I think the 2014 class will tell us how good he can be on the recruiting trail.
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Bingo. Recruiting is a large part about relationships. Lets he honest, Martin wasn't recruiting guys like Hubbs while he was at Missouri state. As you said, 2014 is really going to be a good barometer of his recruiting ability, and I think a lot of people will be eating crow, or making excuses (this the more likeky route) when they see the 2014 class.

Also, if you added Barton to the 2013 class what would it be ranked? Not many wanna look at it that way though.
 
#74
#74
bleedingTNorange said:
Bingo. Recruiting is a large part about relationships. Lets he honest, Martin wasn't recruiting guys like Hubbs while he was at Missouri state. As you said, 2014 is really going to be a good barometer of his recruiting ability, and I think a lot of people will be eating crow, or making excuses (this the more likeky route) when they see the 2014 class.

Also, if you added Barton to the 2013 class what would it be ranked? Not many wanna look at it that way though.
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This is the same things that u said about the last class year and it didn't work out that way. I totally disagree that you have to have multiple years to build a relationship with a high school kid.
 
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#75
#75
volbeast33 said:
This is the same things that u said about the last class year and it didn't work out that way. I totally disagree that you have to have multiple years to build a relationship with a high school kid.
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Well you'd be wrong when it comes to college basketball recruiting. Not to say a relationship can't be built in a short time, but for the big time talents, they've been recruited for years. It's a lot to overcome in a short amount of time coming from mizz st.

Martin has made his mistakes in recruiting but I hope he's learned from them. This year we will find out. I'm not saying he's going to sign a top 5 class. I'm just saying I think this will be his best class by far.
 
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