2019 Target List

[BigZiti09]

2020-2021 roster features:
4 seniors
2 juniors
3 sophomores
4 freshman*

It's actually......

4 SR (Pons, Johnson, Walker, Fulk)
1 JR (Kent)
4 SO (Burns + 3 '19 signees)
4 Fr (TBD)

If Burns reclassifies just to RS then I am considering him part of the 2019 class because in actuality that is what he'd be. I'm not a believer in Fulk or Johnson and don't have high hopes for Kent.

That's why the Sophomore class that year is so important.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

It's actually......

4 SR (Pons, Johnson, Walker, Fulk)
1 JR (Kent)
4 SO (Burns + 3 '19 signees)
4 Fr (TBD)

If Burns reclassifies just to RS then I am considering him part of the 2019 class because in actuality that is what he'd be. I'm not a believer in Fulk or Johnson and don't have high hopes for Kent.

That's why the Sophomore class that year is so important.

Again making an assumption on Burns though, he may not redshirt, it’s obviously an unknown, so it’s actually...

4 seniors
2 juniors
3 sophomores
4 freshman*

Again, you don’t have high hopes for those guys, that’s where the issue lies...you are seemingly writing those guys off and I am not. Kent hasn’t played a single game for Tennessee, I can’t just say he’s a non-factor, sorry.

Again, pretty clear 2016 and 2017 played just as much of a role as 2019 will, and the numbers prove this.

 

[BigZiti09]

Again making an assumption on Burns though, he may not redshirt, it’s obviously an unknown, so it’s actually...

4 seniors
2 juniors
3 sophomores
4 freshman*

Again, you don’t have high hopes for those guys, that’s where the issue lies...you are seemingly writing those guys off and I am not. Kent hasn’t played a single game for Tennessee, I can’t just say he’s a non-factor, sorry.

Again, pretty clear 2016 and 2017 played just as much of a role as 2019 will, and the numbers prove this.

You continue to think it's all about numbers.

Johnson came in with the guys who are playing and he is not.

Fulk came in with the guys that are playing and he is not.

Kent came in with Walker and Pons. They are playing and he is not.

You can rely on those guys if you want to but I don't view them like the contributors cause guess what?? They aren't contributing. That doesn't mean they can't. But they haven't to this point.

2019 is gonna prove to be a pivotal class for Rick Barnes. You can keep saying it's not and I'll continue to believe that it is. It's an opinion and I don't base it all on #'s. It's about the entire situation we are/will be in.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

You continue to think it's all about numbers.

Johnson came in with the guys who are playing and he is not.

Fulk came in with the guys that are playing and he is not.

Kent came in with Walker and Pons. They are playing and he is not.

You can rely on those guys if you want to but I don't view them like the contributors cause guess what?? They aren't contributing. That doesn't mean they can't. But they haven't to this point.

2019 is gonna prove to be a pivotal class for Rick Barnes. You can keep saying it's not and I'll continue to believe that it is. It's an opinion and I don't base it all on #'s. It's about the entire situation we are/will be in.

Turner redshirted and was SEC POY? Villanova has guys redshirt that were key pieces on this years championship team. Had Alexander redshirted would you have written him off too or would he be even better because of it?

Your opinion is based largely on the assumption that multiple players who will be upperclassmen don’t pan out, my opinion is based on the assumption that they will. Walker didn’t do a ton this year, but I saw enough that makes me think he will be a quality SEC player come his junior season.

This won’t be proven either way for awhile, but my point all along has been from a pure numbers standpoint at this time that class is no more important than most classes. Now if Fulk and Jalen Johnson transfer out after this season, and Yves Pons goes back to France and Kent quits playing basketball then yes, the 2019 class absolutely is going to be relied on to play major minutes as freshman. But as things stand now the balance and makeup is going to be pretty normal on paper, how those guys develop is the question, maybe you’re comfortable saying you know what kind of player Walker/Pons/Johnson/Fulk/Kent will all be in 2 years but I’m definitely not...I have watched too many guys develop that I didn’t think would, and I’m not just talking about Barnes...Armani Moore became a SEC player many didn’t think would, Brian Williams was a very solid big man after a couple years.

 

[BigZiti09]

Turner redshirted and was SEC POY? Villanova has guys redshirt that were key pieces on this years championship team. Had Alexander redshirted would you have written him off too or would he be even better because of it?

Your opinion is based largely on the assumption that multiple players who will be upperclassmen don’t pan out, my opinion is based on the assumption that they will. Walker didn’t do a ton this year, but I saw enough that makes me think he will be a quality SEC player come his junior season.

This won’t be proven either way for awhile, but my point all along has been from a pure numbers standpoint at this time that class is no more important than most classes. Now if Fulk and Jalen Johnson transfer out after this season, and Yves Pons goes back to France and Kent quits playing basketball then yes, the 2019 class absolutely is going to be relied on to play major minutes as freshman. But as things stand now the balance and makeup is going to be pretty normal on paper, how those guys develop is the question, maybe you’re comfortable saying you know what kind of player Walker/Pons/Johnson/Fulk/Kent will all be in 2 years but I’m definitely not...I have watched too many guys develop that I didn’t think would, and I’m not just talking about Barnes...Armani Moore became a SEC player many didn’t think would, Brian Williams was a very solid big man after a couple years.

Paragraph 1: Alexander didn't redshirt though. We were in a rebuild. We aren't villanova. Turner was ruled ineligible causing the RS. It wasn't by the staff's choice.

2:I believe in Walker much more than the others. I've said as much and I didn't include him in the 3 players I don't have confidence in.

3: Again. Not about numbers solely. And it's projecting on my part but I think 2019 (plus Burns) will be of big time importance if we plan on keeping this thing going after the leaders from now are gone.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Paragraph 1: Alexander didn't redshirt though. We were in a rebuild. We aren't villanova. Turner was ruled ineligible causing the RS. It wasn't by the staff's choice.

2:I believe in Walker much more than the others. I've said as much and I didn't include him in the 3 players I don't have confidence in.

3: Again. Not about numbers solely. And it's projecting on my part but I think 2019 (plus Burns) will be of big time importance if we plan on keeping this thing going after the leaders from now are gone.

1. The staff wanted to, so if he had he’s worse and not better? We appear to be using a model somewhat similar, redshirting guys and bringing in mostly 4 year guys...obviously there’s are more highly rated than what we’ve landed to date but that appears to be the model moreso than say UK.

2. I understand that, my point being that just because someone isn’t playing a ton don’t write them off...Fulk and Walker are both sophomore next year, how do their numbers to date compare?

3. I don’t see Gaines being a huge factor early, I would assume you agree, so that leaves Mann, Tandy and Burns(redshirt). Their freshman year they won’t be needed much as they’ll be behind a bunch of seniors, as sophomores Mann probably starts and outside shot at Tandy, so you have 2 sophomore guards....didn’t we start 3 sophomores this past year on our way to a 3 seed?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

2017-2018 team:
1 senior
3 juniors
4 sophomores
5 freshman


2020-2021 team:
4 senior
1 junior
4 sophomore
4 freshman


So pretty clear on paper it’s fine, again the question is how do the 5 projected upperclassmen develop(Pons/Walker/Johnson/Kent/Fulk)

 

[BigZiti09]

1. The staff wanted to, so if he had he’s worse and not better? We appear to be using a model somewhat similar, redshirting guys and bringing in mostly 4 year guys...obviously there’s are more highly rated than what we’ve landed to date but that appears to be the model moreso than say UK.

2. I understand that, my point being that just because someone isn’t playing a ton don’t write them off...Fulk and Walker are both sophomore next year, how do their numbers to date compare?

3. I don’t see Gaines being a huge factor early, I would assume you agree, so that leaves Mann, Tandy and Burns(redshirt). Their freshman year they won’t be needed much as they’ll be behind a bunch of seniors, as sophomores Mann probably starts and outside shot at Tandy, so you have 2 sophomore guards....didn’t we start 3 sophomores this past year on our way to a 3 seed?

1. Being a redshirt doesn't mean you are a bad player. If you are redshirting on a team that's sub .500 during a complete rebuild with plenty of floor time available then I have my doubts as to how good you are. Alexander didn't shirt. He was needed.

2. I watched them play.

3. You are proving my point.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

1. Being a redshirt doesn't mean you are a bad player. If you are redshirting on a team that's sub .500 during a complete rebuild with plenty of floor time available then I have my doubts as to how good you are. Alexander didn't shirt. He was needed.

2. I watched them play.

3. You are proving my point.

1. Who did this? Fulk redshirted due to injury, he was off to a pretty nice start to the season.

2. As did I, if Fulk finds his freshman form then he’s a key contributor...again TBD.

3. What’s that? That the 2019 class has a similar importance as the 2015/2016/2017 class? That was my point this whole time, that 2019 wasn’t likely to be any more important than those classes which that paragraph proves.

 

[BigZiti09]

1. Who did this? Fulk redshirted due to injury, he was off to a pretty nice start to the season.

2. As did I, if Fulk finds his freshman form then he’s a key contributor...again TBD.

3. What’s that? That the 2019 class has a similar importance as the 2015/2016/2017 class? That was my point this whole time, that 2019 wasn’t likely to be any more important than those classes which that paragraph proves.

1. I was saying that Alexander didn't do that. They couldn't afford to redshirt him. That's why he didn't. He was good enough to help a bad team.

2. I think he will be recruited over. Sorry. JMO.

3. More eggs in the 2019 basket and I'm not looking to enter a 3 year rebuild. 2019 is his most important class. He had some hits in 2015 and 2016 though. That's why 2017 and 2018 didn't have to be world beaters. 2018 still doesn't have anyone in it.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

1. I was saying that Alexander didn't do that. They couldn't afford to redshirt him. That's why he didn't. He was good enough to help a bad team.

2. I think he will be recruited over. Sorry. JMO.

3. More eggs in the 2019 basket and I'm not looking to enter a 3 year rebuild. 2019 is his most important class. He had some hits in 2015 and 2016 though. That's why 2017 and 2018 didn't have to be world beaters. 2018 still doesn't have anyone in it.

1. Ok, and Kent redshirted on a good team, so maybe he’s decent?

2. That’s possible, also possible he develops into a nice player...again that’s the unknown, how these guys develop, you’re assuming most of them won’t.

3. 2016 class produces Turner/Bone/Bowden/Williams, 4 guys who as sophomores were part of one of the best Tennessee teams in history. I’ve already laid out that 2019 class likely has 2-3 players that will contribute as sophomores, so how that is any different than 2016 class I’m not really sure.

 

[BigZiti09]

1. Ok, and Kent redshirted on a good team, so maybe he’s decent?

2. That’s possible, also possible he develops into a nice player...again that’s the unknown, how these guys develop, you’re assuming most of them won’t.

3. 2016 class produces Turner/Bone/Bowden/Williams, 4 guys who as sophomores were part of one of the best Tennessee teams in history. I’ve already laid out that 2019 class likely has 2-3 players that will contribute as sophomores, so how that is any different than 2016 class I’m not really sure.

1 & 2. I'm not saying most won't stick around or be decent players. I just have more faith in the core of upperclassmen we currently have that play a big role than I do the group coming up.

3. You're talking about that class being a hit. You're not talking about how important it was. We could have added players in the 2017 and 2018 class to help with that class. The 2019 is circled (for me) because of the amount of production we lose over the next 23 months and the 2018 class being empty. And 2/5th of the 2017 class is already gone.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

1 & 2. I'm not saying most won't stick around or be decent players. I just have more faith in the core of upperclassmen than I do the group coming up.

3. You're talking about that class being a hit. You're not talking about how important it was. We could have added players in the 2017 and 2018 class to help with that class. The 2019 is circled (for me) because of the amount of production we lose over the next 23 months and the 2018 class being empty. And 2/5th of the 2017 class is already gone.

I guess the question then is does a senior Yves Pons with experience beat out a sophomore Davonte Gaines for minutes? Or does a senior Derrick Walker beat out a sophomore DJ Burns for minutes? Etc. I don’t think many here would say Bowden is more talented than Pons but we saw which played more this year, experience matters lots of times.

I’m talking about the importance the class has on this program, the current sophomore class is Turner/Bone/Bowden/Williams...SEC POY and SEC 6th MOY in that group, they produced a Top 5 regular season in Tennessee history. Do I think the 2019 class as sophomores are going to have a similar impact on this program? HELL NO. That is what I am saying.

To me this current sophomore class with those 4 is absolutely more important than the 4 guys in 2019...the first 4 were important to get the program back to this level, the 4 in 2019 are important to continue this program at the level they are coming into. Without those first 4 you don’t get the 4 in 2019 imo.

 

[BigZiti09]

I guess the question then is does a senior Yves Pons with experience beat out a sophomore Davonte Gaines for minutes? Or does a senior Derrick Walker beat out a sophomore DJ Burns for minutes? Etc. I don’t think many here would say Bowden is more talented than Pons but we saw which played more this year, experience matters lots of times.

I’m talking about the importance the class has on this program, the current sophomore class is Turner/Bone/Bowden/Williams...SEC POY and SEC 6th MOY in that group, they produced a Top 5 regular season in Tennessee history. Do I think the 2019 class as sophomores are going to have a similar impact on this program? HELL NO. That is what I am saying.

To me this current sophomore class with those 4 is absolutely more important than the 4 guys in 2019...the first 4 were important to get the program back to this level, the 4 in 2019 are important to continue this program at the level they are coming into. Without those first 4 you don’t get the 4 in 2019 imo.

We aren’t speaking the same language. You’re talking about how good a class was in hindsight.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

We aren’t speaking the same language. You’re talking about how good a class was in hindsight.

No, I’m talking about how important a class was to the programs success. When you say a recruiting class is important I assume it’s in relation to that programs success, are you simply talking about it’s impoetant to where the class ranks in the recruiting rankings?

 

[BigZiti09]

And you keep talking about Walker and Pons. I’m sold on them. You are too. It’s the other 3 I worry about.

I don’t see Kent, Johnson and Fulk being Kyle, Bowden/Admiral and Turner. Or any combo of the current top 6.

 

[BigZiti09]

No, I’m talking about how important a class was to the programs success. When you say a recruiting class is important I assume it’s in relation to that programs success, are you simply talking about it’s impoetant to where the class ranks in the recruiting rankings?

Again you’re talking about how important (in hindsight) it was to the success we had.

And you’re talking about how important it was because it had a bunch of hits.

If some had been misses we could have overcome it because we were still in a rebuild and had the schollies.

More importance on the 2019 class on the front end. He needs to hit on it like he did that 16 class for sure though.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

And you keep talking about Walker and Pons. I’m sold on them. You are too. It’s the other 3 I worry about.

I don’t see Kent, Johnson and Fulk being Kyle, Bowden/Admiral and Turner. Or any combo of the current top 6.

Do I think Kent or Fulk can give us 6ppg/6rpg? Yea probably.

Do I see Johnson being able to match Bowden’s numbers, yea I think that is plausible.

I don’t see someone that can be as dominant as Admiral, but then again prior to last year beginning you were seriously questioning Admiral...soooooo?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Again you’re talking about how important (in hindsight) it was to the success we had.

And you’re talking about how important it was because it had a bunch of hits.

If some had been misses we could have overcome it because we were still in a rebuild and had the schollies.

More importance on the 2019 class on the front end. He needs to hit on it like he did that 16 class for sure though.

If he we miss on a few in 2019 we won’t have scholarships for 2020? It sounds as though you’re dismissing importance of the current sophomore class because they have worked out, if they were all flops we aren’t having this discussion.

I’ll bookmark this page, like I said if as sophomores 2019 class matches the production of this current sophomore class then sure...but I seriously doubt that happens. Keeping in mind as well if someone redshirts, maybe Gaines, that they will be 2020 for this discussions sake.

 

[BigZiti09]

Do I think Kent or Fulk can give us 6ppg/6rpg? Yea probably.

Do I see Johnson being able to match Bowden’s numbers, yea I think that is plausible.

I don’t see someone that can be as dominant as Admiral, but then again prior to last year beginning you were seriously questioning Admiral...soooooo?

Johnson can’t play defense like JB. Kent/Fulk will never end up on a mock draft.

I wasn’t questioning if admiral could play. I was questioning whether he would be on the team.

 

[BigZiti09]

If he we miss on a few in 2019 we won’t have scholarships for 2020? It sounds as though you’re dismissing importance of the current sophomore class because they have worked out, if they were all flops we aren’t having this discussion.

I’ll bookmark this page, like I said if as sophomores 2019 class matches the production of this current sophomore class then sure...but I seriously doubt that happens. Keeping in mind as well if someone redshirts, maybe Gaines, that they will be 2020 for this discussions sake.

If we miss on 2019 we are gonna miss a tourney or two imo.

And you’re still misinterpreting my position.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Johnson can’t play defense like JB.

I wasn’t questioning if admiral could play. I was questioning whether he would be on the team.

And JB probably can’t drive/slash like JJ.

I remember you questioning his game as well, saying you didn’t think he would keep up how he finished last year.

 

[BigZiti09]

I remember you questioning his game as well, saying you didn’t think he would keep up how he finished last year.

Doubt it.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

If we miss on 2019 we are gonna miss a tourney or two imo.

And you’re still misinterpreting my position.

And if Bone/Turner/Bowden/Williams are flops we don’t make the tourney last year, aren’t preseason Top 10 this year, and aren’t in the running for the Top 100 guys we currently are in on.

Very simple...which class is more important to the success of this program, current sophomore class or upcoming 2019 class?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Doubt it.

Ok