2020 Presidential Race

[Weezer]

Trump is the Butch Jones of politics. He's a con artist, narcissistic snake oil salesmen and a fraud. Trump doesn't care about anything but Trump.

Doesn't this describe all politicians? I know, I know, some are going to put forth the luther argument of degrees and continuums, but it truly is a description of most politicians.

 

[tvolsfan]

Imagine if Putin publicly supported whoever wins the Dem primary. Literally came out with a public statement of support. Heads would explode.

Trump’s head certainly would.

 

[tvolsfan]

Trump is the Butch Jones of politics. He's a con artist, narcissistic snake oil salesmen and a fraud. Trump doesn't care about anything but Trump.

“People are calling me to tell me what a great job I’m doing.”

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

I think his closing statement is what got him all the attention. He had a really good night with the limited amount of time he was given to speak (least amount of time for any candidate last night).
I was on Reddit last night and apparently his campaign website crashed because of all the traffic post debate. I think he makes it to the next debate after last night.

He said we needed to move to higher ground immediately. Lol

He's an idiot.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

“People are calling me to tell me what a great job I’m doing.”

President Trump has won more in the last two years than Butch has in his entire life.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Government handouts to corporations, bailing out Wall Street, Corporations like Amazon paying zero income tax, etc.

lulz.

 

[tvolsfan]

President Trump has won more in the last two years than Butch has in his entire life.

They both won adulation by conning desperate southerners. One lost that and the other will as well in time.

 

[05_never_again]

Doesn't this describe all politicians? I know, I know, some are going to put forth the luther argument of degrees and continuums, but it truly is a description of most politicians.

Here's the thing about the Luther argument - IMO there actually are degrees and continuums about the extent to which some are con artists, frauds, snake oil salesmen, etc. At the individual politician level, there are some that are more snakey than others.

What Luther (and others like him get wrong) is when they claim that one of the parties has a monopoly, or a noticeable majority, on that kind of behavior over the other party. That's what happens when you can't separate your own opinion from how the opinion is being sold. The conclusion that people like Luther come to is that if snake oil is being used to sell a policy that they agree with, then it isn't snake oil, because ultimately the policy is good.

 

[Weezer]

Trump’s head certainly would.

Would you be all in on the investigation if the Dem won or would it be full excuse mode and cries of unfair?

 

[tvolsfan]

Here's the thing about the Luther argument - IMO there actually are degrees and continuums about the extent to which some are con artists, frauds, snake oil salesmen, etc. At the individual politician level, there are some that are more snakey than others.

What Luther (and others like him get wrong) is when they claim that one of the parties has a monopoly, or a noticeable majority, on that kind of behavior over the other party.

Most of us are claiming that specifically about Trump. Most republicans agreed until it became politically costly to disagree.

 

[Weezer]

Here's the thing about the Luther argument - IMO there actually are degrees and continuums about the extent to which some are con artists, frauds, snake oil salesmen, etc. At the individual politician level, there are some that are more snakey than others.

What Luther (and others like him get wrong) is when they claim that one of the parties has a monopoly, or a noticeable majority, on that kind of behavior over the other party.

Luther never factors in how his own partisanship affects his judgement on where people belong on his continuum. It's a flawed argument simply because people don't always share the same opinion.

 

[tvolsfan]

Would you be all in on the investigation if the Dem won or would it be full excuse mode and cries of unfair?

I would have no issue with an investigation if there was clear Russian support for a democratic candidate that took the White House. Moscow Mitch should feel free to complain about it.

 

[Weezer]

Most of us are claiming that specifically about Trump. Most republicans agreed until it became politically costly to disagree.

The problem was none of the left considered where Hillary sat on that continuum. I still say if Biden had been the nominee in 2016 he would have won. Waiting until 2020 has hurt him tremendously IMO.

 

[hog88]

Not testy. I understood your question, but I obviously limited that statement to the issue of criminal justice reform, so the response was to point you back in the direction of what I said.

My morning freed up a bit, after all, so I’ll get to take lunch:

Booker’s stated policy is to reduce incarceration rates by lowering sentencing guidelines for nonviolent drug offenses, offering clemency to those serving long sentences for nonviolent drug crimes, and legalizing marijuana (hopefully with other definitional reforms, although nobody has talked about that, and I won’t let best stand in the way of better). He wants to address recidivism by removing barriers to employment and expunging records for decriminalized offenses. Generally he is disparaging of the war on drugs. I support all of those things as they result in a net increase in Liberty.

He also wants to restore voting rights for former felons, which I support, even if it’s somewhat self-serving.

Booker proposes reinvesting in communities, which I do not support. It’s nebulous, it feeds corruption, the money doesn’t get to where it needs to be, and the government just cannot fix poverty or mandate social change. I’d prefer they just not spend it at all and give it back to the people in the form of lower taxes. Some of which would end up in those communities. Bennet proposed reinvesting in education, which I think is more plausible but would do less to effect the social change needed to reduce recidivism.

Some of them mentioned ending qualified immunity for police, which I think is a nuanced issue that is being tossed out too casually to score points, but a move towards heightened accountability for law enforcement would result in increased liberty for others. Unchecked abuses by law enforcement have lasting effects that go beyond the individuals involved. To some extent, decriminalizing marijuana and ending the war on drugs would address some of these issues, over time.

Booker probably has the best record on this particular issue. He sees these issues as significant to African American voters, who he sees as key to democrat electoral victory. So, it’s in his self-interest to follow through.

Presently, it’s an issue that has some bipartisan support, so the likelihood of any of it getting accomplished seems greater than invasive Dem policies, like gun control.

I do not oppose many of those initiatives, however as far as the criminal justice system goes he could ONLY change aspects of the federal system.

 

[Weezer]

I would have no issue with an investigation if there was clear Russian support for a democratic candidate that took the White House. Moscow Mitch should feel free to complain about it.

I have no doubt Schumer and Pelosi would quickly step into the role.

 

[05_never_again]

Luther never factors in how his own partisanship affects his judgement on where people belong on his continuum. It's a flawed argument simply because people don't always share the same opinion.

Yes. Both sides use very similar amounts of snake oil. What partisans are unable to do is admit when snake oil is being used to sell a policy that they agree with. If they agree with the policy, the any tactics used to sell it must not be snake oil. It's an ends justify the means thing.

It's no different than a Georgia fan pointing at Florida and saying Florida cheats and Georgia doesn't, or that Florida cheats way more than Georgia, or that Florida's cheating is way more brazen and helped them win more games than Georgia's cheating did, etc. Both Florida and Georgia are big time programs with similar resources and rivals in the same conference. Isn't it more likely that whatever improprieties are going on at the schools are probably very similar to each other?

 

[Weezer]

Yes. Both sides use very similar amounts of snake oil. What partisans are unable to do is admit when snake oil is being used to sell a policy that they agree with. If they agree with the policy, the any tactics used to sell it must not be snake oil. It's an ends justify the means thing.

It's no different than a Georgia fan pointing at Florida and saying Florida cheats and Georgia doesn't, or that Florida cheats way more than Georgia, or that Florida's cheating is way more brazen and helped them win more games than Georgia's cheating did, etc. Both Florida and Georgia are big time programs with similar resources and rivals in the same conference. Isn't it more likely that whatever improprieties are going on at the schools are probably very similar to each other?

Florida and Georgia both cheat. So does Alabama. Any true Vol fan knows we're the only honest program.

 

[BigOrangeD]

Our favorite President has a rally tonight. Should be a good time.

 

[Boston Vol]

The problem was none of the left considered where Hillary sat on that continuum. I still say if Biden had been the nominee in 2016 he would have won. Waiting until 2020 has hurt him tremendously IMO.

Yes Biden would have beaten Trump. Jim Webb would have won in a landslide. Hell Martin O’Malley would have likely beaten him. Democrats have a good chance of winning next November if they don’t go bat**** crazy left. Problem is they’re going bat**** crazy left.

 

[zeppelin128]

Doesn't this describe all politicians? I know, I know, some are going to put forth the luther argument of degrees and continuums, but it truly is a description of most politicians.

You answered your own question. Some are worse than others.

 

[BigOrangeD]

 

[lawgator1]

Can we get a bill to the senate without any kind of pork added to it ? Also no serious discussion can take place without voter ID ( in my opinion )

Link to there having been pork attached to the bills last week?

 

[BigOrangeD]

Because he's already handing us to Putin on a silver platter.

Poor thing. Is that all you got?

 

[tvolsfan]

Yes Biden would have beaten Trump. Jim Webb would have won in a landslide. Hell Martin O’Malley would have likely beaten him. Democrats have a good chance of winning next November if they don’t go bat**** crazy left. Problem is they’re going bat**** crazy left.

The key for democrats is keeping the the base together. That cost them in 2016.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I believe the powers want it to be Harris

Black female. Identity politics grand slam.