2023 Recruiting

[Volfan2012]

Maybe it's the fact that kellie isn't a top tier coach. Now before anyone comes at me with all the Kellie is this and that crap just listen.
I am by NO means saying she isn't a good coach, or a coach that doesn't love her players or a coach that doesn't respect her players, I think she is all of those things. What she is NOT is a TOP LEVEL or any level winning coach (i think she did take 1 team to a sweeet 16 in her career). Now compare her resume to the likes of GENO, KIM, VIC, DAWN ect and so on and you will see! When TOP elite recruits think about college and playing they
1. Want to play under a Coach that knows what they are doing on the court
2. One who can develop them into someone who can play pro
3. One who can win championships (BIG one here)

If you were a recruit and had the choice to play for Kellie or Dawn Geno Vic Tara, Kim who would you choose.? Obviously there is some reason recruits are cutting TN off and moving on.

TN use to be the #1 place to play women's basketball but it wasn't bc knoxville is such an awesome place to live and there is so much to offer. Yes we have the BEST and I mean BEST facilities but kids wanted to come here bc of one reason and one reason only PAT SUMMIT (the coach) kids knew what she was about, they knew what she produced and they knew one BIG thing THEY WOULD WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS
they do not know that or believe that anymore

This is not bashing Kellie, I personally like her and think she is a good person. As far as recruiting goes the staff is definitely lacking something and I think it starts with a coach who has proven they can get it done.

JMO no negativity towards TN or lady vols just opinion on why recruits are going else where

She has always been a really good coach for the level of player or roster she's had. This year yet another test as this is the best roster she has ever had. All the coaches you mentioned started out losers until they recruited themselves into winning. She has to recruit here hasn't done terrible for the time she has been here. Tennessee took a downward trend before she got here and she's done a great job thus far and getting the program back together. So yes she has the players this year and she has to beat some of the coaches you mentioned and I think we play them all.

 

[37620VOL]

It shouldn't be "here to stay." It's nonsense. It's legalized cheating--bribery---and everyone in the sport has pointed out that doing NIL deals with prospect was not the original intention. And it shouldn't be. That is why conference should ban members schools from offering NIL deals to prospects. NIL was meant to be offered to certain high-profile players //already in school and playing//. That makes sense. Offering deals to everybody, or certain players, just to get them to sign with your school is nothing but corruption--bribery--and should never be allowed. It will ruin the sport. You'll just have prospects signing with the highest bidder. That's corruption. I don't know how much of it is going on now--but it shouldn't be going on at all.

Corruption and bribery are legal terms and you may want to brush up on their definitions. The way you throw around the terms, don't our employers "bribe" us to work?
NIL has guardrails, but this is America, and institutions can't tell people that they can't make a living from their talents.

 

[37620VOL]

Back on topic --- has anyone seen anything regarding when ADR or Nichols might announce?

I think we've got a 75% chance with Nichols and 25% chance with ADR. I would be thrilled to get both.
Disclaimer: I am not a recruiting insider, this is just for fun

 

[Volfan2012]

Back on topic --- has anyone seen anything regarding when ADR or Nichols might announce?

I think we've got a 75% chance with Nichols and 25% chance with ADR. I would be thrilled to get both.
Disclaimer: I am not a recruiting insider, this is just for fun

Nothing and I have been looking. I expect we should hear something from Nichols within a week as think Kansas was her last visit. ADR I just worry about SC more than anyone else. I was hoping right after the big weekend that we would hear from her by now, but hopefully she is still considering us and if she needs more time she has it until November 8th.

 

[xtpsrh08123]

I have come to the conclusion we are going to have no high school recruits this cycle...Way too much worry and predictions going on around here....Everyone just relax, and let Kellie and her staff take care of their future needs.

Likewise , so if we do get one it wont feel so bad !

 

[turbovol]

Corruption and bribery are legal terms and you may want to brush up on their definitions. The way you throw around the terms, don't our employers "bribe" us to work?
NIL has guardrails, but this is America, and institutions can't tell people that they can't make a living from their talents.

What are the guardrails? This is college--not a job. Big difference. You are in college to get an education. In return for doing extra--playing basketball--your college education is paid for. That's a huge benefit. Student-athletes are not in college to "make a living" If you just want to make a living, then turn pro. And bribery is not a reward for one's talents, since the prospect hasn't done anything for the college in question. NIL originated as activist nonsense about colleges supposedly exploiting student-athletes, as if getting a full scholarship worth in excess of $200K over 4 years--plus numerous other benefits-- was nothing. Ask all the rest of the college students in America if they think getting a free college education is a big deal or not? And, as I said, /everybody/ agrees that offering deals to a prospect to get him or her to attend your school was not the reason for NIL. NIL deals should only be allowed for current student-athletes--not prospective student-athletes.

 

[xtpsrh08123]

Evidently you have the set up the NIL deals as part of the recruiting of players. I heard that all three Barnes recruits already have 60 thousand dollar NIL deals. I think some of the womens coaches are setting up NIL deals. I know one school Texas Tech has 25 thousand for every player on their roster. TTU women's hoops players land $25K NIL deals That is a smaller type school so you can see the power five getting that money on up there probably challenging the WNBA starting salary or more. I can really see a way that Key. Jackson, and Horston might stay for their covid year they might could make more in college.

25K per player is 10.00 an hour , SC is getting the same that's nowhere near close to a WNBA salary regardless of how cheap their contracts are . 75-80K first year for an individual player versus 25K for an entire team aka about 2K per player .

 

[xtpsrh08123]

THIS, because you can essentially buy a player, which is INSANE!

Is it time we change the word from Cheating to Bidding >? The player complained about not being able to afford to eat in college and being poor. The money thing has long plagued the NCAA with under the table deals for players to sign at a certain school probably to the point where they just said "You know what ? Just let everyone do it " . Possibly got tired of investigating the same thing over and over each year while also trying to please the collegiate athlete ? Just my hypothesis ....

 

[xtpsrh08123]

Maybe it's the fact that kellie isn't a top tier coach. Now before anyone comes at me with all the Kellie is this and that crap just listen.
I am by NO means saying she isn't a good coach, or a coach that doesn't love her players or a coach that doesn't respect her players, I think she is all of those things. What she is NOT is a TOP LEVEL or any level winning coach (i think she did take 1 team to a sweeet 16 in her career). Now compare her resume to the likes of GENO, KIM, VIC, DAWN ect and so on and you will see! When TOP elite recruits think about college and playing they
1. Want to play under a Coach that knows what they are doing on the court
2. One who can develop them into someone who can play pro
3. One who can win championships (BIG one here)

If you were a recruit and had the choice to play for Kellie or Dawn Geno Vic Tara, Kim who would you choose.? Obviously there is some reason recruits are cutting TN off and moving on.

TN use to be the #1 place to play women's basketball but it wasn't bc knoxville is such an awesome place to live and there is so much to offer. Yes we have the BEST and I mean BEST facilities but kids wanted to come here bc of one reason and one reason only PAT SUMMIT (the coach) kids knew what she was about, they knew what she produced and they knew one BIG thing THEY WOULD WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS
they do not know that or believe that anymore

This is not bashing Kellie, I personally like her and think she is a good person. As far as recruiting goes the staff is definitely lacking something and I think it starts with a coach who has proven they can get it done.

JMO no negativity towards TN or lady vols just opinion on why recruits are going else where

I respect everything said here and it makes total sense. This season will be the game changer for recruiting in my opinion. If we can make a Final 4 recruits will line up as they do for the Final 4 no title having Louisville Cardinals . Kellie can utilize the portal because current college players see the progression. High schoolers may be still on the fence without seeing us in the F4 .

 

[Volfan2012]

25K per player is 10.00 an hour , SC is getting the same that's nowhere near close to a WNBA salary regardless of how cheap their contracts are . 75-80K first year for an individual player versus 25K for an entire team aka about 2K per player .

That is good for an average player because the better players are getting huge deals. Zia Cooke around 300 thousand in her account. Boston has so many deals bet she is close to a million. The 25k means even players at the end of the bench are getting some money which they normally would not get at all if it was all done individually. Tennessee players Horston, Key, and Jackson I am sure have way passed the WNBA starting salary for this season and Tess Darby has three or four deals. I expect every player on the team has at least 25 k money coming in this season.

 

[xtpsrh08123]

That is good for an average player because the better players are getting huge deals. Zia Cooke around 300 thousand in her account. Boston has so many deals bet she is close to a million. The 25k means even players at the end of the bench are getting some money which they normally would not get at all if it was all done individually. Tennessee players Horston, Key, and Jackson I am sure have way passed the WNBA starting salary for this season and Tess Darby has three or four deals. I expect every player on the team has at least 25 k money coming in this season.

So do you assume when they go pro they wont still have their current NIL deals ?

 

[sisaq]

THIS, because you can essentially buy a player, which is INSANE!

Exactly, I'm with u on that. I said it from beginning that school that can cheat with it will recruit the most players.

 

[Volfan2012]

So do you assume when they go pro they wont still have their current NIL deals ?

No idea and I expect them all to leave. Some deals will end and others will probably develop if they do well in that league.

 

[37620VOL]

What are the guardrails? This is college--not a job. Big difference. You are in college to get an education. In return for doing extra--playing basketball--your college education is paid for. That's a huge benefit. Student-athletes are not in college to "make a living" If you just want to make a living, then turn pro. And bribery is not a reward for one's talents, since the prospect hasn't done anything for the college in question. NIL originated as activist nonsense about colleges supposedly exploiting student-athletes, as if getting a full scholarship worth in excess of $200K over 4 years--plus numerous other benefits-- was nothing. Ask all the rest of the college students in America if they think getting a free college education is a big deal or not? And, as I said, /everybody/ agrees that offering deals to a prospect to get him or her to attend your school was not the reason for NIL. NIL deals should only be allowed for current student-athletes--not prospective student-athletes.

Players can't turn pro due to the pros being in cahoots with NCAA regarding age and time limits. Also, players aren't being paid by the university. That is the university's and NCAA's prerogative. But university and NCAA cannot say you cannot make a living anywhere else. US Court said that was unconstitutional and unfair. I agree.

How about this...
What about a music major on music scholarship? Should she not be able to make $ giving music lessons? Should she not be able to receive payments for marketing for Steinway?
What about a grandmaster chess player on full academic scholarship? Should he not be able to compete in professional tournaments or have a Youtube Channel with paid advertising?

 

[37620VOL]

What are the guardrails?

NCAA adopts interim name, image and likeness policy

What is NIL in college football? Here's what you need to know - College Football HQ.

 

[xtpsrh08123]

No idea and I expect them all to leave. Some deals will end and others will probably develop if they do well in that league.

If the player does not make the pros then yeah that NIL is gone but player's who get drafted will most likely still have their NIL along with their WNBA salary. Name , Image & Likeness is forever.

 

[LadyOrange]

Maybe it's the fact that kellie isn't a top tier coach. Now before anyone comes at me with all the Kellie is this and that crap just listen.
I am by NO means saying she isn't a good coach, or a coach that doesn't love her players or a coach that doesn't respect her players, I think she is all of those things. What she is NOT is a TOP LEVEL or any level winning coach (i think she did take 1 team to a sweeet 16 in her career). Now compare her resume to the likes of GENO, KIM, VIC, DAWN ect and so on and you will see! When TOP elite recruits think about college and playing they
1. Want to play under a Coach that knows what they are doing on the court
2. One who can develop them into someone who can play pro
3. One who can win championships (BIG one here)

If you were a recruit and had the choice to play for Kellie or Dawn Geno Vic Tara, Kim who would you choose.? Obviously there is some reason recruits are cutting TN off and moving on.

TN use to be the #1 place to play women's basketball but it wasn't bc knoxville is such an awesome place to live and there is so much to offer. Yes we have the BEST and I mean BEST facilities but kids wanted to come here bc of one reason and one reason only PAT SUMMIT (the coach) kids knew what she was about, they knew what she produced and they knew one BIG thing THEY WOULD WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS
they do not know that or believe that anymore

This is not bashing Kellie, I personally like her and think she is a good person. As far as recruiting goes the staff is definitely lacking something and I think it starts with a coach who has proven they can get it done.

JMO no negativity towards TN or lady vols just opinion on why recruits are going else where

Kellie is as good a coach as any you mentioned. She hasn’t had a chance to prove it on the National stage like Geno et al. who have been around forever and started coaching before we had such improvement in parity. Players came to UT for Holly, who was part of the 8 championships, but she hadn’t proven she could win one as head coach.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

I think this is real simple: Kellie hasn't won anything yet. If and when she breaks through to win conferece titles and final fours, this drought will stop. She has the team to do just that this year, so sit back and watch and don't worry - be happy.

 

[CP3_LVFL]

That was an outstanding recruiting post, CP3_LVFL -- FOR OTHER PROGRAMS BESIDES TENNESSEE.

Goodness gracious.

I am actually a very BIG lady vol fan have been since I was a kid (which was long time ago) I'm not at all for other schools just simply stating in my opinion why recruits are NOT choosing TN at this point. I definitely believe it's coaching and NIL deals all the way.
Nothing against kellie personally and I like her as a coach all I'm saying it's she isn't the caliber of coach as the others
She has to do something to change that before recruits will want to choose playing for her over a national championship coach
I am NOT against TN I mean don't make something stupid out of NOTHING come on!!!!!

 

[Lucy]

Maybe it's the fact that kellie isn't a top tier coach. Now before anyone comes at me with all the Kellie is this and that crap just listen.
I am by NO means saying she isn't a good coach, or a coach that doesn't love her players or a coach that doesn't respect her players, I think she is all of those things. What she is NOT is a TOP LEVEL or any level winning coach (i think she did take 1 team to a sweeet 16 in her career). Now compare her resume to the likes of GENO, KIM, VIC, DAWN ect and so on and you will see! When TOP elite recruits think about college and playing they
1. Want to play under a Coach that knows what they are doing on the court
2. One who can develop them into someone who can play pro
3. One who can win championships (BIG one here)

If you were a recruit and had the choice to play for Kellie or Dawn Geno Vic Tara, Kim who would you choose.? Obviously there is some reason recruits are cutting TN off and moving on.

TN use to be the #1 place to play women's basketball but it wasn't bc knoxville is such an awesome place to live and there is so much to offer. Yes we have the BEST and I mean BEST facilities but kids wanted to come here bc of one reason and one reason only PAT SUMMIT (the coach) kids knew what she was about, they knew what she produced and they knew one BIG thing THEY WOULD WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS
they do not know that or believe that anymore

This is not bashing Kellie, I personally like her and think she is a good person. As far as recruiting goes the staff is definitely lacking something and I think it starts with a coach who has proven they can get it done.

JMO no negativity towards TN or lady vols just opinion on why recruits are going else where

This is a silly post. How many years has Kellie been the HC of a top tier school? No one is taking a mid-major school to a final four much less a Nattie. I expect you will be eating your words come March.
Also, are you saying all the top players we just picked up out of the portal don’t care about playing for an elite coach? I would proffer that these experienced players are better at evaluating a coaching staff than18 year olds who are still under the sway off an AAU coach.

 

[CP3_LVFL]

This is a silly post. How many years has Kellie been the HC of a top tier school? No one is taking a mid-major school to a final four much less a Nattie. I expect you will be eating your words come March.
Also, are you saying all the top players we just picked up out of the portal don’t care about playing for an elite coach? I would proffer that these experienced players are better at evaluating a coaching staff than18 year olds who are still under the sway off an AAU coach.

Take it however you wish. It is what it is. Right now kids coming out of HS are choosing elsewhere
That is facts no matter what the reasoning !!! I was just giving my opinion on why that was happening
I won't be eating any words bc I never said lady vols wouldnt compete this year or any thing such of. They may win it all, make the final 4 or elite 8 or maybe even sweet 16 and I sure hope they do but until that starts happening consistently nothing will change for Kellie and her recruiting out if HS

 

[Volfaninfl2]

To say it’s a fact Kellie is not a “top tier” Coach, is wrong. To say someone who does not agree with your statement is saying crap you don’t want to hear, is also wrong.

It takes a pretty sharp Coach to get a Missouri State team of mostly unranked players to the Sweet Sixteen, much harder than for any of the Coaches you mentioned whose teams were full of 5 star players.

Are you “top tier” if you win National Coach of the Year? Do you know what you’re doing on the court? (This is not counting winning 3 National Championships as a player under the great, Pat.)

Has Tennessee had players recently recruited to the WNBA? We have. Do we expect more this year? We do.

Are you a “top tier” Coach if your team is ranked #4 in the country? Well, we were last year, before more injuries hit. Right now, Tennessee is ranked #4 in ESPN’s 2022 preseason poll.

It’s true that success attracts higher rated recruits which in turn brings more success, a vicious cycle. The Coaches mentioned have just had a big head start. Tara is 69, Geno is 68, Vic is 61, Kim is 60, Dawn is 52, Kellie is 45.

Kellie is not an old “top tier” Coach, she is a younger “top tier” Coach. Tennessee is in fantastic shape for the future with Kellie. This is a big year, sit back and enjoy this exciting ride.

GO LADY VOLS!!!

 

[Coach Jumper]

I think this is real simple: Kellie hasn't won anything yet. If and when she breaks through to win conferece titles and final fours, this drought will stop. She has the team to do just that this year, so sit back and watch and don't worry - be happy.

this

 

[Lucy]

Take it however you wish. It is what it is. Right now kids coming out of HS are choosing elsewhere
That is facts no matter what the reasoning !!! I was just giving my opinion on why that was happening
I won't be eating any words bc I never said lady vols wouldnt compete this year or any thing such of. They may win it all, make the final 4 or elite 8 or maybe even sweet 16 and I sure hope they do but until that starts happening consistently nothing will change for Kellie and her recruiting out if HS

You would eat your words regarding Kellie’s coaching proficiency unless the Lady Vols can be a final four team and Kellie would still not be an elite coach in your eyes.

 

[PRG]

I am actually a very BIG lady vol fan have been since I was a kid (which was long time ago) I'm not at all for other schools just simply stating in my opinion why recruits are NOT choosing TN at this point. I definitely believe it's coaching and NIL deals all the way.
Nothing against kellie personally and I like her as a coach all I'm saying it's she isn't the caliber of coach as the others
She has to do something to change that before recruits will want to choose playing for her over a national championship coach
I am NOT against TN I mean don't make something stupid out of NOTHING come on!!!!!

“Don’t make something out of NOTHING!”

This statement reminds me of what my first wife said when I had her served with divorce papers !

You are demeaning a coach and speaking for all 18 year old girls coming out of high school ! I did not know there was someone so intelligent?