2024 Presidential Race

[utvolpj]

The biggest problem here ... is that you keep trying to assert that I said something which I didn't actually say. I have still never said even one damn word about the line of succession or anything having been Un-Constitutional.

Well except when you're comparing succession to primaries/elections as you've done repeatedly

 

[Ritzwatch]

You don't win electoral votes in primaries/caucuses. You win delegates to the party convention. They are similar but not the same.

They are similar enough that you get my point.

They are different enough that your deflection to this issue, while consistent with your "Ford" deflection, is a fairly transparent effort to avoid saying, "yeah, you guys are right, Kamala never has won a single presidential primary or caucus, but she might just win the presidential election."

If nothing else, simply acknowledging that as a noteworthy historical oddity seems like a pretty easy thing to do.

However, if we are shifting the discussion from Harris' unique path to potentially becoming the Democratic nominee to the distinctions between "electoral votes" and "delegates" (who pledge to vote for a certain candidate on the first ballot of a convention vote), well, I will let you discuss that with anyone else interested in that topic.

 

[BowlBrother85]

It's not unprecedented.

Hubert Humphrey (also a VP), did not campaign in any primaries in 1968. He was the nominee only because he supported the United States continued involvement in the Vietnam War. He received his delegates from Democratic Party bosses who were in charge of them after LBJ backed out and Robert Kennedy was murdered.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Well except when you're comparing succession to primaries/elections as you've done repeatedly

Show me where I did that. I never even mentioned the word "succession." That has been you.

I have only said that Gerald Ford's name had never been on a ballot in an election open to all Americans, for either the President or Vice President, when he was sworn in as President in August of 1974.

^^^ FACT ^^^^

You want to play these childish gotcha games.

 

[BowlBrother85]

If nothing else, simply acknowledging that as a noteworthy historical oddity seems like a pretty easy thing to do.

So now we are only discussing this in terms of oddities? LOL.

Yes, I will concede that the Harris situation is odd ....

...... if you can also concede that Gerald Ford became President under some very unique circumstances as well. Particularly so, considering that he immediately pardoned Nixon.

 

[bamawriter]

Is that as crazy as this?

50 years ago next month, Gerald Ford ascended to the presidency without ever having been elected either the President or Vice President ..... and then he abruptly pardoned the man who had appointed him Vice President, and later resigned allowing him to become President. Ford was basically force-fed to the American people.

^^^^ Now, that really was a circumvention of the democratic process. ^^^^

Apples to oranges. Ford hadn't run before finding himself in office. But when he did run for the first time, he won a plurality of delegates. Kamala is the nominee without having won a single delegate... twice.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Apples to oranges. Ford hadn't run before finding himself in office. But when he did run for the first time, he won a plurality of delegates. Kamala is the nominee without having won a single delegate... twice.

It's different ... Yes.

.... but I would argue that becoming President in the manner in which Ford did .... especially considering his pardon of Nixon so soon after becoming President .... was also very unique to American history.

For the record, Ford granted Nixon a full pardon exactly 1 month after Nixon resigned and Ford was sworn in. It was September 8, 1974. That stunk to high heaven.

 

[Ritzwatch]

It's not unprecedented.

Hubert Humphrey (also a VP), did not campaign in any primaries in 1968. He was the nominee only because he supported the United States continued involvement in the Vietnam War. He received his delegates from Democratic Party bosses who were in charge of them after LBJ backed out and Robert Kennedy was murdered.

The manner in which parties have chosen delegates and candidates for president have changed over the years.

I don't know all the details of presidential politics in 1968, but I do know the electoral process for securing delegates and winning the nomination was different than now. Humphrey, I believe, entered the race after LBJ's withdrawal, and led in delegates at the time of RFK's assassination.

Humphrey secured the nomination based on delegates he won using the accepted democratic process of 1968 selecting him as their nominee at the convention. Harris is using delegates who Biden won in 2024 to choose her to run for president. The two scenarios seem distinguishable to me.

 

[LibertyVol]

It must have been some good stuff

I am sure Willie enjoyed her work. He did a lot for her.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Kamala Harris' talk show host Ex-Boyfriend Montel Williams reveals who he thinks should be leading the Democratic ticket... after making surprise endorsement after Biden dropped out​

Talk Show Host Montel Williams, daughter Ashley Williams and Kamala Harris attending the Eighth Annual Race to Erase Multiple Sclerosis on May 18, 2001, in Century City

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13660089/Kamala-Harris-talk-host-ex-boyfriend-Montel-Williams-reveals-thinks-leading-Democratic-ticket-making-surprise-endorsement-Biden-dropped-out.html

 

[BowlBrother85]

The manner in which parties have chosen delegates and candidates for president have changed over the years.

I don't know all the details of presidential politics in 1968, but I do know the electoral process for securing delegates and winning the nomination was different than now. Humphrey, I believe, entered the race after LBJ's withdrawal, and led in delegates at the time of RFK's assassination.

Humphrey secured the nomination based on delegates he won using the accepted democratic process of 1968 selecting him as their nominee at the convention. Harris is using delegates who Biden won in 2024 to choose her to run for president. The two scenarios seem distinguishable to me.

The stupid thing here is that I don't believe we have have ever been that far off in how we perceive things. It's mostly just been about semantics. I referred to Ford's ascension to the Presidency as a circumvention of the democratic process, and I still feel that it was.

Our differences lie completely in what "circumvention" actually means. I never said that Ford's ascension to the Presidency was either Un-Constitutional or illegal or that it violated any line of succession. It was extraordinary, however. Ford's pardon of Nixon one month later is the only thing that really bothers me about the whole thing .... Regardless of Ford's denials .... I believe that they had made a deal.

 

[Ritzwatch]

So now we are only discussing this in terms of oddities? LOL.

Yes, I will concede that the Harris situation is odd ....

...... if you can also concede that Gerald Ford became President under some very unique circumstances as well. Particularly so, considering that he immediately pardoned Nixon.

Dude,

Below is @bamawriter's initial post, and my response.

I think the posts make clear that my discussion here is related to the oddity, also referred to as a "remarkable moment in history." I suppose I could have used "unprecedented." I still don't know WTH Ford has to do with any of this in 2024. It is possible, you realize, that novel, unrelated event can happen some 50 years apart? Sure, Ford was unique. So is Harris. Not being 85 years old, I am more interested in Harris than I am in some president who was in office when I was in diapers.

Perhaps that is the disconnect here. Maybe you have me confused with some other poster(s). My entire post string with you has been based on these two foundational posts, which are simply comments about the uniqueness of the current political situation.
If you can't see that, I don't have anything more for you. But, hey, you be you.

Food for thought:

Kamala Harris is the presumptive Democratic nominee. This is her second run for President. Between the two campaigns, she has won a grand total of zero pledged delegates.

I have been shaking my head for the last 24 hours at this.

Harris has never won a single delegate in a contested election to determine a party nominee, yet she may be elected the next president of the United States. I cannot think of another time this has happened under the modern electoral system. It is staggering.

Edit: Having seen BB85's post, above, obviously, Ford's situation was different. Ford filled a vacancy due to the sitting VP's resignation from office. His appointment was Constitutional, in accord with our established democratic norms. Ford, unlike Harris, never had a chance to be elected President without having won a single electoral vote by the primary/caucus process. It is truly a remarkable moment in history.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Nothing but clowns & morons in the MSM these days.

 

[utvolpj]

Show me where I did that. I never even mentioned the word "succession." That has been you.

I have only said that Gerald Ford's name had never been on a ballot in an election open to all Americans, for either the President or Vice President, when he was sworn in as President in August of 1974.

^^^ FACT ^^^^

You want to play these childish gotcha games.

How and when did Ford reach his position? Is it the same? You're obviously trying to compare the situations which are in no way similar

 

[BowlBrother85]

Dude,

Below is @bamawriter's initial post, and my response.

I think the posts make clear that my discussion here is related to the oddity, also referred to as a "remarkable moment in history." I suppose I could have used "unprecedented." I still don't know WTH Ford has to do with any of this in 2024. It is possible, you realize, that novel, unrelated event can happen some 50 years apart? Sure, Ford was unique. So is Harris. Not being 85 years old, I am more interested in Harris than I am in some president who was in office when I was in diapers.

Perhaps that is the disconnect here. Maybe you have me confused with some other poster(s). My entire post string with you has been based on these two foundational posts, which are simply comments about the uniqueness of the current political situation.
If you can't see that, I don't have anything more for you. But, hey, you be you.

I'm not 85 years old either. I was born in 1973. Will turn 51 a week from today ......

I never meant for this to become such a lengthy debate. I brought up Ford only because in my opinion it marked a circumvention of the democratic process. Multiple posters have taken that phrase and ran with it in directions that I never intended for it to go. I never even mentioned anything about it having been illegal, Un-Constitutional or a violation of the line of succession.

 

[BowlBrother85]

How and when did Ford reach his position? Is it the same? You're obviously trying to compare the situations which are in no way similar

They are much different. In my opinion, if Nixon offered to resign on the condition that Ford would grant him a pardon .... that is much worse.

... and yes, I know that both Nixon and Ford denied that any such deal had been in place. However, Nixon lied about a lot of things, didn't he?

 

[whodeycin85]

Lawd here we go. BB fighting like hell for Kamala.

He was told to by maddow

 

[BowlBrother85]

He was told to by maddow

Yeah ... we're going out for cocktails later. I'm going for "the 2 point conversion." LOL.

 

[luthervol]

The constitution circumvents democracy? Huh? You don't think the American people understand succession?

They understand it less than they understand the concept that a person's heath can unexpectedly and quickly worsen to the point where they a forced to change their long term plans.

 

[StarRaider]

yikes how long until cackles catches covid?

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Where's the POTUS?? Anybody seen the POTUS today?? Is he still pooping his pants??

Do they know for certain Biden is alive?? Kamala is out speaking B4 old man Joe.

 

[LSU-SIU]

They understand it less than they understand the concept that a person's heath can unexpectedly and quickly worsen to the point where they a forced to change their long term plans.

We're pulling for you Luther.

 

[Vol423]

If I take on posting a lot in another forum my wife may murder me.

We're willing to take that risk.

 

[BowlBrother85]

yikes how long until cackles catches covid?
View attachment 660991

Clearly, Trump does have a lead .... and I expect him to win. However, to get a more accurate look at the race from Real Clear Polling, you should use their average among all polls, instead of just using Rasmussen Reports and a Harris X poll, which do tend to heavily favor Republicans. When you do that, Trump still has a lead, but it's not a route ....

(R) Donald Trump ..... 48.1%
(D) Kamala Harris ..... 46.2%

1.9% spread in Trump's favor.

2024 National: Trump vs. Harris | RealClearPolling

2024 National: Trump vs. Harris | RealClearPolling

www.realclearpolling.com

 

[hog88]

Where's the POTUS?? Anybody seen the POTUS today?? Is he still pooping his pants??

Do they know for certain Biden is alive?? Kamala is out speaking B4 old man Joe.

I have never really paid attention before but the VP is not in the chain of command, they shouldn't be saluting her.