2024 Presidential Race

[utvolpj]

This is the most bewildering point.

Trump kills a bi-partisan bill for border security and then runs on the platform of him being the only person who can do something about it.

And his supporters buy it. Pretty astonishing.

If nothing else, the guy can put on a master class in selling snow to Eskimo.

He'd rather America continue to have an unmitigated immigrant problem than give the current admin a win. Without the immigrant issue, he's got no platform and nothing to run on.

Dude....

That bill was a set up. A vote against 87% of the funding for foreign wars is now twisted into a vote against border security. Why did they need to be entwined? Copy/paste the border part into a separate, stand-alone bill and vote on it. This is a perfect example why our current system is such a failure

 

[Sudden Impact]

The Mexicans don't even work now, and the ones that do... do ****** work. They figured out they don't need to work either.

Tell that to the those that have immigrant workers, either the owner can't find somebody a company willing to do the job, expect 3 times as much in pay, or performs said task poorly without a fixing the problems.
I hire immigrants because they are cheaper, willing to see it through, and complete the tasks. Most companies know this and they do the same.
America lost its ability to do dirty jobs for themselves and now have hire labors that are immigrants.
So I guess it is the Dems that are promoting legal slavery. We are going to see a generation that sits in front of its computers looking for a fix to a simple problem.

 

[LSU-SIU]

He controls the presidential message being released from the white house. He chose instead to defer to Fauci. There's little context needed outside of that.

You make it sounds very simple, the reality wasn't that though..... go back and see what they were doing just for not wearing a mask. You are way oversimplifying the situation. In hindsight, maybe he could have done more.... but in the process it could have significantly hurt him in November. I agree with you in part, but its like avoiding the elephant in the room.... the whole scam was against him, you, Me and the American people. Does he bear some of the responsibility, of course.

I just think this was a tough at the time.

As far as the government complete scam artists as are doctors, media, etc.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Tell that to the those that have immigrant workers, either the owner can't find somebody a company willing to do the job, expect 3 times as much in pay, or performs said task poorly without a fixing the problems.
I hire immigrants because they are cheaper, willing to see it through, and complete the tasks. Most companies know this and they do the same.
America lost its ability to do dirty jobs for themselves and now have hire labors that are immigrants.
So I guess it is the Dems that are promoting legal slavery. We are going to see a generation that sits in front of its computers looking for a fix to a simple problem.

They are mostly non-skilled at this point and really aren't working themselves at this point. Its much easier to just collect money.

We are going to see a generation that sits in front of its computers looking for a fix to a simple problem.

Don't worry its all going to collapse and they'll have to figure out the basic in life or die, eventually.

Trump isn't going to save anyone and sure in hell illegals aren't going to save anyone.

 

[LouderVol]

Why didn't Donny do it in his prior administration?

If you want to regress argument points, then let's be honest. Your 'gotcha' questions are particularly impressive.

it wasn't nearly as bad during Trump's term.

you don't replace the main water line going to your house if you have a faucet that won't turn off. you might need to replace the water main after the new owners came in and drilled holes in the line with the express interest of wanting more water in the yard.

 

[Sandman 423]

This is the most bewildering point.

Trump kills a bi-partisan bill for border security and then runs on the platform of him being the only person who can do something about it.

And his supporters buy it. Pretty astonishing.

If nothing else, the guy can put on a master class in selling snow to Eskimo.

He'd rather America continue to have an unmitigated immigrant problem than give the current admin a win. Without the immigrant issue, he's got no platform and nothing to run on.

There is a lot more to the border bill than Trump.

The Administration was trying to get several wins out of one issue. They were trying to leverage a bill that the republicans wanted in order to siphon more money to the industrial war complex all while giving the appearance that the were working on border reform so that they could looked better in the polls.

 

[Septic]

Dude....

That bill was a set up. A vote against 87% of the funding for foreign wars is now twisted into a vote against border security. Why did they need to be entwined? Copy/paste the border part into a separate, stand-alone bill and vote on it. This is a perfect example why our current system is such a failure

If your arguments that clean bills should be the way to go, I'd agree. But that's not my point.

If the issue were that important, the ones who are losing sleep over it should be willing to take any opportunity to improve the situation. They didn't and still want to whine about not enough is being done.

 

[utvolpj]

You make it sounds very simple, the reality wasn't that though..... go back and see what they were doing just for not wearing a mask. You are way oversimplifying the situation. In hindsight, maybe he could have done more.... but in the process it could have significantly hurt him in November. I agree with you in part, but its like avoiding the elephant in the room.... the whole scam was against him, you, Me and the American people. Does he bear some of the responsibility, of course.

I just think this was a tough at the time.

As far as the government complete scam artists as are doctors, media, etc.

It was simple. Does he control the WH message or not? It's really not complicated that someone using your podium to spread info you don't agree with should be removed. He could have easily said all info will run thru Pence's group but he just can't give up the spotlight.

How could it have guru him in Nov any more than it did? He lost to a man with dementia who hid in a basement. He's now going to lose again to a woman who struggles to convey the most basic of ideas. At some point you have to quit blaming the other guy

 

[Sudden Impact]

All that was part of the scam. We already had data from China, and that ship, to confirm that infection rate was too high for anything to work. These rates were even published by the CDC in or around April 2020.

Complete utter scam, and that is ignoring the same people probably created it to start with.

Of course, the original ones weren't vaccines anyway, at least under most law. But they thank you for service as a guinea pig.

How do you know I got a vaccination? You don't, but you can assume, I did or did not?. That is all you got? Grow up and you need a reality ck. I am sure with this type of behavior you will spout off something to wrong person and he will clean your clock.

 

[just bob]

He hired the swamp because he was so unprepared for the job. To use a UT example, you would have run Peterman back out in Gainesville to start the 2nd half. Surely he learned from his mistakes right?

His choices were horrible, leadership was nonexistent and he will be no better the 2nd time. The gop blew it by nominating just about the only guy who could lose to both Biden and Harris.

Hey, I voted DeSantis. Trump didn't hire the vast majority of the swamp. He should have fired them, yes. He added a few pieces, he didn't create the swamp that is the government - he should have drained it. I would hope he learned from his mistakes, though I have no faith in anyone. We do know for an absolute fact that a Kamala Harris admin will do everything it possibly can to continue to destroy the USA, just like it's doing right now.

Trump should fire damn near everyone in government and throw Kushner on an empty island in the arctic.

 

[utvolpj]

If your arguments that clean bills should be the way to go, I'd agree. But that's not my point.

If the issue were that important, the ones who are losing sleep over it should be willing to take any opportunity to improve the situation. They didn't and still want to whine about not enough is being done.

My argument is that a bill where 13% is going to the border can't be categorized as a border bill. It was foreign war funding with a poison pill hidden inside. If this is so important to both sides then a stand alone bill is a no brainer

It's fact that the current admin absolutely made the border worse and ignored it until election season. You're villifying the wrong side in this one. Trump actually did something when they had the WH.

 

[Sudden Impact]

They are mostly non-skilled at this point and really aren't working themselves at this point. Its much easier to just collect money.



Don't worry its all going to collapse and they'll have to figure out the basic in life or die, eventually.

Trump isn't going to save anyone and sure in hell illegals aren't going to save anyone.

I beg to differ on the skillset. Depends on the job, but we are talking manual labor jobs not bank executives.
Sure any worker in America needs adult supervision a concept that has eroded.

 

[utvolpj]

Hey, I voted DeSantis. Trump didn't hire the vast majority of the swamp.

Look at who he hired and where they came from. They're swamp creatures or people who use the swamp to enrich themselves

 

[LouderVol]

It was put together by a bi-partisan committee. Whether you like what was in it or not isn't the point, the point that a bill to address the problem was proffered and subsequently rejected because Donny didn't want Biden to have a win on his wedge issue. It's really not that complicated.

again, one republican on it makes it bi partisan on a technicality, not in actuality. If you really believe it was bi-partisan please point out multiple things in there that the Republicans agreed with.

it didn't address the problem. it was a band aid on a complex fracture.

it was rejected because it didn't even attempt to address any of the real issues. once you read it, which I doubt you have instead relying on tired talking points, it didn't even actually take care of the issues it claimed to be addressing. and then there was all the rest of the crap stuck in there, and when the majority of the text and the money of the bill go to non-border issues it shows thats never what it was about.

it wasn't a win for anyone. it was a political move by Joe and the Dems after years of lying about the border. everyone was right to reject the bill on its own merits, regardless of what Trump said. they were putting lipstick (border item window dressing) on a pig (foreign aid, green initiatives, woke/DEI crap), and found one Republican willing to take their slice of pork to put their name on it after the fact.

Paraphrasing Ron Paul a bit because I can't remember the exact question or response: Reporter to Ron: of the X number of bills during your time you only voted for a few, why? Ron to the reporter: because I read them.

 

[Septic]

it wasn't nearly as bad during Trump's term.

you don't replace the main water line going to your house if you have a faucet that won't turn off. you might need to replace the water main after the new owners came in and drilled holes in the line with the express interest of wanting more water in the yard.

No argument there either, but still not the point.

Immigration numbers declined at the end of trumps term, but that is more as a result of the pandemic, not his policy or enforcement.

Neither side wants to fix this - I simply don't understand why so many are so deeply entrenched in believing that immigration started in 2020.

 

[NashVol11]

He reminds me of a professor I had once. He’d regularly say something outrageous during his lectures…. So much so that I stayed after class one day to ask him about it…. He told me I was new to his class and that eventually I’d figure out that he says incredible like that to encourage his students to go look for answers themselves…. I’m not saying Trump used the dogs and cats comments this way, but it’s worked out as if he did

Trump isn’t a professor with an audience of 50 nor is this an innocuous conversation about some historical event, he’s spreading a stereotype about one specific group to millions of people who start threatening them

 

[just bob]

Look at who he hired and where they came from. They're swamp creatures or people who use the swamp to enrich themselves

Go back a reread. I never once doubted he hired bad people.

 

[just bob]

Trump isn’t a professor with an audience of 50 nor is this an innocuous conversation about some historical event, he’s spreading a stereotype about one specific group to millions of people who start threatening them

Wow, look who didn't read the whole post he responded to. I'm shocked I tell you. Shocked.

 

[Septic]

again, one republican on it makes it bi partisan on a technicality, not in actuality. If you really believe it was bi-partisan please point out multiple things in there that the Republicans agreed with.

Shumer and McConnel signed off on it before Donny weighed in.

That's not opinion.

You not liking what was in the bill doesn't make it cease to exist.

 

[utvolpj]

Shumer and McConnel signed off on it before Donny weighed in.

That's not opinion.

You not liking what was in the bill doesn't make it cease to exist.

Those 2 signing off together should give anyone pause.

 

[Septic]

There is a lot more to the border bill than Trump.

The Administration was trying to get several wins out of one issue. They were trying to leverage a bill that the republicans wanted in order to siphon more money to the industrial war complex all while giving the appearance that the were working on border reform so that they could looked better in the polls.

Exactly why it was pulled.

 

[Sudden Impact]

it was one Republican.
and the border aspect was click bait AT BEST. far far far more pork than focus on the border.
and what little was there for the border did almost literally nothing to fix border security.

so hiring more border agents is not a fix. 1500. Deploying and using technology is not a fix.
Trump needed a win and did not want the Dems to succeed so he could just campaign. If he wants to fix it then fix it. Use the European way of border control. It seems to work, but it would step on some Constitutional but would fulfill them as well. Some immigrants are going to come into this country and be allowed but not like we have now.

 

[appvol]

Dude....

That bill was a set up. A vote against 87% of the funding for foreign wars is now twisted into a vote against border security. Why did they need to be entwined? Copy/paste the border part into a separate, stand-alone bill and vote on it. This is a perfect example why our current system is such a failure

 

[NashVol11]

Wow, look who didn't read the whole post he responded to. I'm shocked I tell you. Shocked.

Look who’s wasting time again. I read it, nothing at the end of his post changes what I said. Acting like spreading a ridiculous stereotype is somehow an overall positive is so stupid

 

[just bob]

Look who’s wasting time again. I read it, nothing at the end of his post changes what I said. Acting like spreading a ridiculous stereotype is somehow an overall positive is so stupid

If you read the end you wouldn't have posted your ridiculous response. I do appreciate it though. It's easier, though less fun, when you show everyone your lack of sense instead of me educating you. So thank you for that this time.