2024 Presidential Race

#46,126
#46,126
Vol8188 said:
So Biden doubling the deficit does make Biden responsible for inflation?
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He and Trump have close to equal responsibility. The state of the economy from 2017-2019 did not necessitate fiscal stimulus and yet, Trump's budget request proposals and the spending bills that he eventually signed, increased spending to an irresponsible level.

You are simply talking straight numbers without acknowledging how unnecessary the increased spending during Trump's first two years in office was. He can't just blame Democrats (or COVID) for that either. That was pre-COVID and Republicans were in control of both chambers of Congress during those years. The deficits were exacerbated by his tax cuts as well. Trump was fiscally irresponsible and it contributed to inflation.
 
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#46,127
#46,127
BowlBrother85 said:
He and Trump have close to equal responsibility. The state of the economy from 2017-2019 did not necessitate fiscal stimulus and yet, Trump's budget request proposals and the spending bills that he eventually signed, increased spending to an irresponsible level.

You are simply talking straight numbers without acknowledging how unnecessary the increased spending during Trump's first two years in office was. He can't just blame Democrats (or COVID) for that either. That was pre-COVID and Republicans were in control of both chambers of Congress during those years. The deficits were exacerbated by his tax cuts as well. Trump was fiscally irresponsible and it contributed to inflation.
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So Trump cut taxes and yet his deficits were half that of Biden’s? Yet you’re focused on Trump’s spending?

I agree that his spending was bad (not because I believe like you do in the idea of “economic stimulus).

But you’re ignoring that Biden’s spending has been far, far more than Trump. 1.8 trillion vs .9 trillion. He literally doubled the deficit.

You’re also failing to acknowledging that if the deficit doubled despite 0 tax cuts it’s mathematically impossible for your claim (deficits are mainly caused by tax cuts) to be true.

It wasn’t 2017-2019 of the Trump admin that caused the severe inflation we saw. It was 2020
 
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#46,129
#46,129
hog88 said:
It’s the manufacturing of money to cover the deficit that causes inflation.
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I will keep it specific to actual tax cuts .... and yeah, I see you edited your post from what it had been.

americansfortaxfairness.org

Increasing Deficit Can Be Traced to GOP Tax Cuts - Americans For Tax Fairness

Giveaways to Rich & Corporations Under Bush & Trump Have Caused Over Half Of Budget Shortfalls This Century Today’s monthly budget report again demonstrates that the federal deficit has been largely driven by tax cuts for the rich and corporations enacted by Republican politicians over the past...
americansfortaxfairness.org americansfortaxfairness.org
 
#46,130
#46,130
BowlBrother85 said:
We definitely go in circles on here. That gets back to one of my main points about cutting taxes. The Republican mantra going back to the Reagan era, is that tax cuts pay for themselves through economic growth. History has never borne that out.

www.crfb.org

Tax Cuts Don't Pay For Themselves | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

While policymakers are gearing up to address tax reform this fall, some have advocated for abandoning true reform and instead focusing solely on tax cuts.
www.crfb.org www.crfb.org
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Yet I can post numerous examples of tax cuts happening and tax revenue increasing
 
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#46,131
#46,133
#46,133
Vol8188 said:
He’s also openly proclaiming that deficits cause inflation (agreed) but ignoring that Biden has doubled the annual deficit
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iu
 
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#46,134
#46,134
SpaceCoastVol said:
That's probably THE most moronic thing you have posted in the last year.
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LOL .....

Okay then .... show me one time that a tax cut was done in conjunction with cuts to government spending.

Be specific. It sure as hell didn't happen under Trump, George W. Bush or Reagan. What do those 3 Republican Presidents have in common? They cut taxes and then proceeded to increase government spending during their time in office.

George H.W. Bush (Mr. Read My Lips) actually increased taxes.
 
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#46,135
We are currently running 2T deficits, yet inflation has ”cooled”..most of the inflationary pressures have been supply sided..or data is cooked.
 
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#46,136
#46,136
BowlBrother85 said:
LOL .....

Okay then .... show me one time that a tax cut was done in conjunction with cuts to government spending.

Be specific. It sure as hell didn't happen under Trump, George W. Bush or Reagan. What do those 3 Republican Presidents have in common? They cut taxes and then proceeded to increase government spending during their time in office.

George H.W. Bush (Mr. Read My Lips) actually increased taxes.
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I can show you where the cuts increased revenue. Its a spending problem
 
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#46,137
#46,137
For those who arent PUI (posting under the influence) consider the premise that tax cuts are primarily responsible for deficits.

If true, there should be irrefutable correlation between tax cuts, decreased revenue and spending deficits. The opposite should also be true...tax increases bring increased revenue and spending surpluses.

The data actually shows poor (or no) correlation.
Link provided.

Revenues have, except for a few years, increased year over year (my source goes back to 1962 but you can search a starting date further back). True under every president regardless of party or tax rate policy. Also there has only been one small surplus...under Clinton during his brief government budget impasse with Gingrich.

How can this be? Tax cuts and raises, when reported (for political points), are always estimates based on past data and behavior. Tax revenues are always actual data points based on current data and behavior. Turns out people change behavior in response to changing tax policy.

The US government has a long track record of taking in more revenues year over year. There have been multiple periods where revenues doubled in a ten year span. Revenue of 100B in 1962. Revenue of 4.9 Trillion in 2022. That's a incredible percentage increase in 60 years.

www.thebalancemoney.com

U.S. Federal Government Tax Revenue

The federal government generates tax revenue through sources like income and corporate taxes. Learn how much tax revenue the U.S. generates each year.
www.thebalancemoney.com www.thebalancemoney.com
 
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#46,139
#46,139
BowlBrother85 said:

It's both.

.... but if you can cite specific examples to support a case you are making, then you should do it. This place is very low on specifics. Almost everything is discussed in the abstract.
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Yes the trumps cut was the one where we didn't see the increase in revenue. Although I'd argue its tax policy will have a delayed impact on revenue. Seems very similar to an argument you have been screaming about recently
 
#46,140
#46,140
McDad said:
For those who arent PUI (posting under the influence) consider the premise that tax cuts are primarily responsible for deficits.

If true, there should be irrefutable correlation between tax cuts, decreased revenue and spending deficits. The opposite should also be true...tax increases bring increased revenue and spending surpluses.

The data actually shows poor (or no) correlation.
Link provided.

Revenues have, except for a few years, increased year over year (my source goes back to 1962 but you can search a starting date further back). True under every president regardless of party or tax rate policy. Also there has only been one small surplus...under Clinton during his brief government budget impasse with Gingrich.

How can this be? Tax cuts and raises, when reported (for political points), are always estimates based on past data and behavior. Tax revenues are always actual data points based on current data and behavior. Turns out people change behavior in response to changing tax policy.

The US government has a long track record of taking in more revenues year over year. There have been multiple periods where revenues doubled in a ten year span. Revenue of 100B in 1962. Revenue of 4.9 Trillion in 2022. That's a incredible percentage increase in 60 years.

www.thebalancemoney.com

U.S. Federal Government Tax Revenue

The federal government generates tax revenue through sources like income and corporate taxes. Learn how much tax revenue the U.S. generates each year.
www.thebalancemoney.com www.thebalancemoney.com
Click to expand...
I have never said that spending wasn't a core problem. I have said that tax cuts in conjunction with increases in spending was inflationary. I have tried to keep the conversation specific to Trumps fiscal policy ... which is where it started, but others try to make it more of an abstract discussion because nobody here wants to talk about how Trump contributed to inflation.

Yes .... Tax cuts are inflationary in nature.
 
#46,141
#46,141
BowlBrother85 said:
I have never said that spending wasn't a core problem. I have said that tax cuts in conjunction with increases in spending was inflationary. I have tried to keep the conversation specific to Trumps fiscal policy ... which is where it started, but others try to make it more of an abstract discussion because nobody here wants to talk about how Trump contributed to inflation.

Yes .... Tax cuts are inflationary in nature.
Click to expand...
BowlBrother85 said:
Tax cuts are primarily responsible for the deficits.
Click to expand...
You posted that. It isn't true. The data are irrefutable.
 
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#46,142
#46,142
BowlBrother85 said:
Yes .... Tax cuts are inflationary in nature.
Click to expand...
Year over year inflation rate for 60 years. Zero correlation with tax policy.
Eta: example, look at the inflation rate of Cater compared to Reagan after the tax cuts.

U.S. Inflation Rate 1960-2024

Inflation as measured by the consumer price index reflects the annual percentage change in the cost to the average consumer of acquiring a basket of goods and services that may be fixed or changed at specified intervals, such as yearly. The Laspeyres formula is generally used.
www.macrotrends.net www.macrotrends.net
 
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#46,144
#46,144
BowlBrother85 said:
I was speaking specifically to Trump ..... I don't know what the other guy was talking about.
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The data doesn't support your claim as you have married two seperate data points...spending and tax policy.
I am unable to look at the table I linked and discern tax policy and spending wrt increased inflation.
It may be the amount of borrowing (printing) / spending and what it is spent on are far more consequential. If true, Trump's borrowing and spending and how quickly the money was introduced to our economy and who recieved it was incredibly bad for inflation.
 
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#46,145
#46,145
McDad said:
Year over year inflation rate for 60 years. Zero correlation with tax policy.
Eta: example, look at the inflation rate of Cater compared to Reagan after the tax cuts.

U.S. Inflation Rate 1960-2024

Inflation as measured by the consumer price index reflects the annual percentage change in the cost to the average consumer of acquiring a basket of goods and services that may be fixed or changed at specified intervals, such as yearly. The Laspeyres formula is generally used.
www.macrotrends.net www.macrotrends.net
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It's more complicated than that. Of course, it is true that printing money causes inflation, not tax cuts .... but it is dead wrong to say that tax policy has no impact on inflation. That will depend on the economy. There are many variables. You are over-simplifying the matter.

I think this gives a more balanced answer ....

www.politifact.com

GOP leaders are proposing tax cuts. Could that drive inflati

One of the most common Republican messages during the 2022 midterm campaigns has been that President Joe Biden is to bla
www.politifact.com www.politifact.com

"Ultimately, a tax cut's timing and nature will determine whether it drives inflation."

^^^^ This ^^^^
 
#46,146
#46,146
BowlBrother85 said:
It's more complicated than that. Of course, it is true that printing money causes inflation, not tax cuts .... but it is dead wrong to say that tax policy has no zero impact on inflation. That will depend on the economy. There are many variables. You are over-simplifying the matter.

www.politifact.com

GOP leaders are proposing tax cuts. Could that drive inflati

One of the most common Republican messages during the 2022 midterm campaigns has been that President Joe Biden is to bla
www.politifact.com www.politifact.com
Click to expand...
I am not doing anything except providing data. The data is crushing your premise.

Government Revenues increased almost every year completely independent of tax policy. Deficits occured even with increasing revenues.

Year over year inflation in the table I linked is not correlated to tax policy. Ex, inflation was higher at Carter's end of term and lower after Reagan's tax cuts. There are other moments where yearly inflation decreased after tax cuts. There are moments where it increased, too.

Point is, you cannot look at year over year inflation rates in the blind and know what was happening with tax policy.
 
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#46,147
#46,147
McDad said:
I am not doing anything except providing data. The data is crushing your premise.

Government Revenues increased almost every year completely independent of tax policy. Deficits occured even with increasing revenues.

Year over year inflation in the table I linked is not correlated to tax policy. Ex, inflation was higher at Carter's end of term and lower after Reagan's tax cuts. There are other moments where yearly inflation decreased after tax cuts. There are moments where it increased, too.

Point is, you cannot look at year over year inflation rates in the blind and know what was happening with tax policy.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are over-simplifying the matter. Whether or not cutting taxes drives up inflation will depend on the economy. That is not something your "data" will bear out.

The Republican mantra that there is never a bad time to cuts taxes is dead wrong ... and so are you.
 
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