2024 Republican candidates beside Trump

#127
#127
utvolpj said:
"they just didn't do socialism right. We totally know the way now"

So we'll add history to the growing list of things you don't understand.
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England has a thousand year streak going.
France has been around for awhile.
Norway?
Sweden?
Spain?
What's your point?
 
#134
#134
hog88 said:
Which of those countries has had the same form of government without a revolution for more than 200 years?
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He didn't say a word about government, he said nations.
Governments evolve......as they should.
You guys are amusing.
 
#135
#135
hog88 said:
Which of those countries has had the same form of government without a revolution for more than 200 years?
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And you guys are claiming those revolutions started because the government became to socialistic?
And I'm the one who doesn't know history.............LMFAO
 
#136
#136
luthervol said:
He didn't say a word about government, he said nations.
Governments evolve......as they should.
You guys are amusing.
Click to expand...

And none of the countries you listed have been socialist or practiced democratic socialism for more than 100 years and almost all of the ones you listed are dependent on our protection.
 
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#137
#137
hog88 said:
And none of the countries you listed have been socialist or practiced democratic socialism for more than 100 years and almost all of the ones you listed are dependent on our protection.
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All of the countries I listed are more socialistic than the US. And have been around longer than us.
 
#138
#138
luthervol said:
And you guys are claiming those revolutions started because the government became to socialistic?
And I'm the one who doesn't know history.............LMFAO
Click to expand...
Whoa there, chief. Pj mentioned nations and YOU brought up those countries as having "streaks" in response to socialism hasn't worked. The only one who has linked the socialism discussion with those countries is you.
 
#141
#141
utvols88 said:
Whoa there, chief. Pj mentioned nations and YOU brought up those countries as having "streaks" in response to socialism hasn't worked. The only one who has linked the socialism discussion with those countries is you.
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lol....there sparky.
I asked for him, or anyone, to name "nations" and got zilch as a response.

That pretty much says it all.
 
#142
#142
luthervol said:
All of the countries I listed are more socialistic than the US. And have been around longer than us.
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Umm no they haven't, if you are arguing that the land existed there and people sharing a common culture or heritage were living there then yes they "existed" before the US. However, the French government has been overthrown/conquered several times including most recently during WW2. Norway was part of Denmark until the early 19th century. England and Spain lurched from monarch to monarch for most of their existence with warring periods in between. It's kind of hard to argue their "existence" when they couldn't agree upon a leader. By your logic, Germany has existed for nearly 1500 years after the fall of the Roman Empire due to Germanic tribes conquering much of Northern Europe.
 
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#143
#143
luthervol said:
lol....there sparky.
I asked for him, or anyone, to name "nations" and got zilch as a response.

That pretty much says it all.
Click to expand...

There hasn't been a form of government/economic system that has produced more sustained wealth for more individuals over the last 200 years than the US. It is a simple fact. You can argue that mercantilism/imperialism created more wealth for the monarchs in England, France, and Spain but that is an antiquated system. The most powerful economic nation in Europe is modeled after the US and that is Germany. The most powerful economic nations in Asia, outside of China's forced labor system but even they evolved away from Communism, are South Korea and Japan. Both were modeled after the US economies. Yes there are some very wealthy Middle Eastern nations that relatively small populations with large oil reserves but that isn't duplicable. There really is nothing to debate
 
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#144
#144
utvolpj said:
"they just didn't do socialism right. We totally know the way now"

So we'll add history to the growing list of things you don't understand.
Click to expand...

There is a lot of ambiguity in determining who historically is socialist and who is not. Socialism just means government controls the means of production. Basically, every country has some element of that, so are we all socialists? If it's the government controlling all the means of production, then nobody is socialist. Neither ends of that spectrum are useful for conversation, so then we must subjectively determine who is socialist enough in our eyes to count as a socialist.

Look at the US...education is not only a huge industry, but it's one of the most important areas of life. Something like 95% of K-12 education is provided by the government and the government tries to regulate the other 5%. Government is the means of production. Is that enough to qualify us as socialist? Why or why not?

Government provides basically all the means of production in law enforcement and military defense.

We accept this stuff as default and never stop to think about what label to apply to it.
 
#145
#145
landscapingvol said:
There hasn't been a form of government/economic system that has produced more sustained wealth for more individuals over the last 200 years than the US. It is a simple fact. You can argue that mercantilism/imperialism created more wealth for the monarchs in England, France, and Spain but that is an antiquated system. The most powerful economic nation in Europe is modeled after the US and that is Germany. The most powerful economic nations in Asia, outside of China's forced labor system but even they evolved away from Communism, are South Korea and Japan. Both were modeled after the US economies. Yes there are some very wealthy Middle Eastern nations that relatively small populations with large oil reserves but that isn't duplicable. There really is nothing to debate
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What is it you think I am trying to debate?
I was responding to this post.
"There's a reason no nation lasts forever. This move left will essentially end our great experiment if allowed to continue"

It sounds as if he is implying that nations collapse because they move to far left.
I just asked for examples.
 
#146
#146
Vol423 said:
Yes. Wasted. If you want to rally the Libertarian base and try to become a legitimate threat to actually win an election sometime in the future, knock yourself out. I'm all for it. However, until that happens, when it comes to the general election, any vote for a third party candidate is currently a wasted vote. You may as well have not voted at all.
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Until the libertarians get serious about being something other than the „legalize drugs“ party as their main plank, I will continue to treat them as a joke. You win not by creating a whole party structure from the ground up. You win by taking over and co-opting one of the two existing parties. The left had no problem bringing the Democrat party to the left of Stalin. Why do conservatives feel they cannot pull the GOP similarly to the right?
 
#147
#147
luthervol said:
What is it you think I am trying to debate?
I was responding to this post.
"There's a reason no nation lasts forever. This move left will essentially end our great experiment if allowed to continue"

It sounds as if he is implying that nations collapse because they move to far left.
I just asked for examples.
Click to expand...

Soviet Union, Greece, Argentina,
 
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#150
#150
hog88 said:
But not as democratic socialist or socialist states.
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Don't engage. I quit last night after realizing it's that thing about arguing with fools and being beaten when they drag you down to their level. It's a canned argument; luther and his kind will drag out the "are you still beating your wife" kind of thing.
 
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