2024 Vols will have the best d-line in the country....BY FAR

[chuckiepoo]

I love it when a receipt gets dropped on a dumbazz.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

If this is true then shouldn't it translate to the NFL? I see reports of Hendon Hooker struggling in Lions camp and potentially being 3rd on the depth chart. Jalin Hyatt had 0 TDs last year. And so on. If the 2022 team was more talented than the 2015 and 2016 teams then we should see that in the NFL.

I'm willing to bet in 8 years there will be less Vols from the 2022 team collecting NFL checks than guys from the 2016 team who are collecting NFL checks right now.

Nope. NFL has zero to do with college. The so have almost nothing to do with one another. There is a list a mile long of studs in college that fizzle out in the pros. The 2022 team beat Bama. Hendon Hooker put up stats here that may never be seen again. Did Dobbs even come close to him? No. Was Dobbs ever mentioned in the Heisman race? No. Was any WR from the 2015/2016 team ever mentioned as the best WRs in the nation? No.

Talent at the college level doesn’t mean success at the NFL level.

 

[utchs81]

How is it with some posters you know who the author is just by reading the Topic line, D4H never fails to impress.

 

[butchna]

Yes, very much so. There are only 1600 guys on rosters getting paid. Helluva life accomplishment since that amount is miniscule compared to all players in division 1.

Since you put “very much so” in your response…nah. Accomplishing a roster spot does not bestow success status…at least in a conversation with a dude who doesn’t utilize that term when discussing Joey Bosa. Getting paid not to play certainly isn’t anything to be ashamed of…but a far cry from a successful NFL career. An entire CAREER of spot starts like this past season would change that definition.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Josh Dobbs will start 16 games as a rookie.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Nope. NFL has zero to do with college. The so have almost nothing to do with one another. There is a list a mile long of studs in college that fizzle out in the pros. The 2022 team beat Bama. Hendon Hooker put up stats here that may never be seen again. Did Dobbs even come close to him? No. Was Dobbs ever mentioned in the Heisman race? No. Was any WR from the 2015/2016 team ever mentioned as the best WRs in the nation? No.

Talent at the college level doesn’t mean success at the NFL level.

Then why did Hendon not do any of that at Virginia Tech?

Circumstances matter. You keep ignoring that point.

 

[hndog609]

He's 3rd of the depth chart in training camp on Year 2 of his rookie contract. Yes there is a thus far. If there wasn't a thus far then he wouldn't have collected any checks yet from the NFL and there would be no pecking order in camp.

Maybe you don't know how the NFL works but injury isn't an excuse. If Hendon doesn't play well in the preseason he could be released just like Dobbs was in danger of as a 2nd year QB. The NFL isn't really in the business of making excuses for why a player isn't performing.

So by this point your "normal" qb would have had:
rookie OTAs
rookie training camp
rookie preseason
2nd year OTAs
2nd year training camp

Hooker has zero of the rookie list and the 2ndyr OTA with a dislocated finger on his throwing hand. He's basically a rookie+ at this point. THE POINT being made, and in the most vettable way possible, is comparing anyone that fits the cited "normal qb" with someone in basically rookie+ isn't even pretending to be intellectualy honest.

Now having said the above he's 26. Having something positive to show in his preseason opportunities is going to be scrutinized pretty hard.

 

[VawlDave]

D4H is goated

 

[LittleVol]

This same crap with D4H was happening in 2020
It’s 2024 now……
??









Chattanooga in a little over 3 weeks.

Enjoy Fingers updates and love your life.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

So by this point your "normal" qb would have had:
rookie OTAs
rookie training camp
rookie preseason
2nd year OTAs
2nd year training camp

Hooker has zero of the rookie list and the 2ndyr OTA with a dislocated finger on his throwing hand. He's basically a rookie+ at this point. THE POINT being made, and in the most vettable way possible, is comparing anyone that fits the cited "normal qb" with someone in basically rookie+ isn't even pretending to be intellectualy honest.

Now having said the above he's 26. Having something positive to show in his preseason opportunities is going to be scrutinized pretty hard.

Somewhere out there is a small violin playing.

NFL is no excuse league. If Hendon doesn't play well in the preseason he could easily get cut. All these excuses you're making are null and void if the Lions don't think he's a good player. Like you said he's 26. That only 3 years younger than Dobbs who is headed into his 8th NFL season. If he doesn't show immediate promise he'll be in big trouble.

 

[hndog609]

Somewhere out there is a small violin playing.

NFL is no excuse league. If Hendon doesn't play well in the preseason he could easily get cut. All these excuses you're making are null and void if the Lions don't think he's a good player. Like you said he's 26. That only 3 years younger than Dobbs who is headed into his 8th NFL season. If he doesn't show immediate promise he'll be in big trouble.

Of course the Lions (or anyone else) aren't going to just hold a spot forever out of charity. Has anyone here even suggested as much? Certainly not me. In fact I pointed out how important this preseason (his first btw) could be.

And it might be the most ironic thing in the history of this board that you would cite "excuses" for a player. Are you SURE you want any part of having the wayback machine pulling up you, just for instance, doggedly insisting that, team after team later, Kelvin Taylor was legit? You went to uncharted waters invoking Antonio Calloway's face as supporting evidence for propping the guy up. Nobody, nooooobody has played kick the can down the road regarding players more than you and there's endless receipts for that archived here.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Of course the Lions (or anyone else) aren't going to just hold a spot forever out of charity. Has anyone here even suggested as much? Certainly not me. In fact I pointed out how important this preseason (his first btw) could be.

And it might be the most ironic thing in the history of this board that you would cite "excuses" for a player. Are you SURE you want any part of having the wayback machine pulling up you, just for instance, doggedly insisting that, team after team later, Kelvin Taylor was legit? You went to uncharted waters invoking Antonio Calloway's face as supporting evidence for propping the guy up. Nobody, nooooobody has played kick the can down the road regarding players more than you and there's endless receipts for that archived here.

True. But remember I claimed that NFL teams are stupid and generally have no clue what they're doing. You guys were the ones saying I was wrong and they were right. Well I'm simply using your own argument back at you. Don't come here talking to me about excuses. Hendon has been in front of the Lions staff for the entire offseason and he's still behind Nate Sudfeld for the backup job. https://atozsports.com/nashville/vo...tball-tennessee-vols-hendon-hooker-preseason/

If you wanna join me in thinking you know better than NFL teams then I'm all ready to have you as a brother in arms. I just better not hear you talk about Dobbs lack of opportunities by NFL teams as evidence of him not being good enough ever again.

 

[hndog609]

True. But remember I claimed that NFL teams are stupid and generally have no clue what they're doing. You guys were the ones saying I was wrong and they were right. Well I'm simply using your own argument back at you. Don't come here talking to me about excuses. Hendon has been in front of the Lions staff for the entire offseason and he's still behind Nate Sudfeld for the backup job. https://atozsports.com/nashville/vo...tball-tennessee-vols-hendon-hooker-preseason/

If you wanna join me in thinking you know better than NFL teams then I'm all ready to have you as a brother in arms. I just better not hear you talk about Dobbs lack of opportunities by NFL teams as evidence of him not being good enough ever again.

I'm going to cut you a little slack in that I think there are people that were trying to make a straight qualitative comparison so maybe that was leaking through. I, quite adamantly, have taken no part in that side of the conversation. It should be embarrassing to you I'm having to revisit this but I wholly and unambiguously stated I (and that same Lions staff) are aware the context surrounding Hooker AND just as unambiguously asserted there is still a timetable and Hendon being 26 already isn't helping. I also stated it would behoove him mightily to show them something during the actual preseason.

And since you invoked your talent scouting prowess and excuses: (note "supremely confident" and the kick the can down the road of "Just wait on it.")

There have been many great players who have been cut several times by multiple teams before they hit it big. James Harrison and Kurt Warner being the most prominent examples. I'm still supremely confident that Kelvin Taylor will ULTIMATELY prove himself as a better running back than Derrick Henry. For the record, I never said Kelvin Taylor would be great. I only said he would be the second best RB in what was a weak RB draft and that he would be better than Derrick Henry who would be a bust. I still maintain that Henry will be a bust and that Kelvin Taylor will be better. Just wait on it.

 

[Adam2014]

I'm going to cut you a little slack in that I think there are people that were trying to make a straight qualitative comparison so maybe that was leaking through. I, quite adamantly, have taken no part in that side of the conversation. It should be embarrassing to you I'm having to revisit this but I wholly and unambiguously stated I (and that same Lions staff) are aware the context surrounding Hooker AND just as unambiguously asserted there is still a timetable and Hendon being 26 already isn't helping. I also stated it would behoove him mightily to show them something during the actual preseason.

And since you invoked your talent scouting prowess and excuses: (note "supremely confident" and the kick the can down the road of "Just wait on it.")

Just wait on it though! Henry could still be a bust in the NFL. It's only a matter of time before Kelvin Taylor rushes for...9,500 yards and 90 TDs!

 

[chuckiepoo]

I'm going to cut you a little slack in that I think there are people that were trying to make a straight qualitative comparison so maybe that was leaking through. I, quite adamantly, have taken no part in that side of the conversation. It should be embarrassing to you I'm having to revisit this but I wholly and unambiguously stated I (and that same Lions staff) are aware the context surrounding Hooker AND just as unambiguously asserted there is still a timetable and Hendon being 26 already isn't helping. I also stated it would behoove him mightily to show them something during the actual preseason.

And since you invoked your talent scouting prowess and excuses: (note "supremely confident" and the kick the can down the road of "Just wait on it.")

Unless you just enjoy playing with yer food, don’t feed the troll.

 

[hndog609]

Unless you just enjoy playing with yer food, don’t feed the troll.

I was actually hoping after #161 he'd just sit back and wait for something really vettable to transpire. Then he tried to flex the "Don't come here talking to me about excuses." bit and that deserved swatting around a bit. Otherwise yeah, amusement from trolling a troll has it's limits.

 

[chuckiepoo]

I was actually hoping after #161 he'd just sit back and wait for something really vettable to transpire. Then he tried to flex the "Don't come here talking to me about excuses." bit and that deserved swatting around a bit. Otherwise yeah, amusement from trolling a troll has it's limits.

I get it. It’s the offseason.

 

[hndog609]

I get it. It’s the offseason.

26 more days bro...26.

 

[butchna]

I'm going to cut you a little slack in that I think there are people that were trying to make a straight qualitative comparison so maybe that was leaking through. I, quite adamantly, have taken no part in that side of the conversation. It should be embarrassing to you I'm having to revisit this but I wholly and unambiguously stated I (and that same Lions staff) are aware the context surrounding Hooker AND just as unambiguously asserted there is still a timetable and Hendon being 26 already isn't helping. I also stated it would behoove him mightily to show them something during the actual preseason.

And since you invoked your talent scouting prowess and excuses: (note "supremely confident" and the kick the can down the road of "Just wait on it.")

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I'm going to cut you a little slack in that I think there are people that were trying to make a straight qualitative comparison so maybe that was leaking through. I, quite adamantly, have taken no part in that side of the conversation. It should be embarrassing to you I'm having to revisit this but I wholly and unambiguously stated I (and that same Lions staff) are aware the context surrounding Hooker AND just as unambiguously asserted there is still a timetable and Hendon being 26 already isn't helping. I also stated it would behoove him mightily to show them something during the actual preseason.

And since you invoked your talent scouting prowess and excuses: (note "supremely confident" and the kick the can down the road of "Just wait on it.")

I never said I was infallible FYI. So yes the Kelvin Taylor vs Derrick Henry take was an epic fail. But you know what wasn't a fail? My take that Alvin Kamara was a better RB prospect than Leonard Fournette and Dalvin Cook who were more highly rated. Or how about my take that Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson were the top two QB prospects in the 2018 draft over Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield? So while I'm not always right, I'm not always wrong either. Where I land in between those two extremes can be debated another day because that wasn't the point of my argument.

You turned my take on worldview when it comes to evaluating players into a referendum on my abilities to evaluate talent. Kudos to that expert argument technique. But let's get back to my point which wasn't about whether or not I'm better at evaluating talent than NFL teams. My point was in exposing your hypocrisy. If you trust the NFL guys when they say Dobbs isn't good enough because of his lack of opportunities then don't come in here giving me a litany of excuses for why Hendon isn't already the #2 at Detroit. He should be running ahead of Sudfeld if he's what you claimed him to be which is a superior player to Dobbs. And yet in Year 2 of his career at 26 years old he's 3rd on the depth chart. No different than the allergy inferior Dobbs when he was in a similar situation.

You can't have it one way with Dobbs and another with Hooker.

 

[hndog609]

I never said I was infallible FYI. So yes the Kelvin Taylor vs Derrick Henry take was an epic fail. But you know what wasn't a fail? My take that Alvin Kamara was a better RB prospect than Leonard Fournette and Dalvin Cook who were more highly rated. Or how about my take that Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson were the top two QB prospects in the 2018 draft over Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield? So while I'm not always right, I'm not always wrong either. Where I land in between those two extremes can be debated another day because that wasn't the point of my argument.

You turned my take on worldview when it comes to evaluating players into a referendum on my abilities to evaluate talent. Kudos to that expert argument technique. But let's get back to my point which wasn't about whether or not I'm better at evaluating talent than NFL teams. My point was in exposing your hypocrisy. If you trust the NFL guys when they say Dobbs isn't good enough because of his lack of opportunities then don't come in here giving me a litany of excuses for why Hendon isn't already the #2 at Detroit. He should be running ahead of Sudfeld if he's what you claimed him to be which is a superior player to Dobbs. And yet in Year 2 of his career at 26 years old he's 3rd on the depth chart. No different than the allergy inferior Dobbs when he was in a similar situation.

You can't have it one way with Dobbs and another with Hooker.

I have no hypocrisy you raving dolt. I've what, tripled down at this point that a 26yo Hooker is on a timetable and needs to acquit himself in some game (preseason) opportunities? Literally, LITERALLY the only thing I've argued (which isn't necessarily speaking for everyone who has commented, which I've also clarified) is that Hendon is contextually behind any qb that came into the league uninjured. That's it. Others may have argued more but take that up with them.

And oh boy is there an LOL in your take on the Henry prediction. You do realize that wasn't really put forth to point out the "epic fail" of your Henry v Taylor comparison. (though that's an amusing enough observation) No, it was, as cited even earlier, YOUR use of excuses and moving the timelines regarding players you've thrown your lot in with. (Hence the pointing out of "Just wait.") So hey, here's another.

Oh it's not going to be a surprise for me. It'll be a surprise for the ignorant masses like you. But I know talent when I see it. And Dobbs screams NFL superstar talent.

And honestly the only thing that angers me about all the disrespect you guys throw at Dobbs ability is the fact I can see how great he is and you clowns can't see it at all.

I guess we'll just have to wait until Dobbs is winning rookie of the year next year for you clowns to see what I've seen all along.

There we go again...being told to "wait". It's rather a funny thought experiment. With Hooker not blowing the doors off shouldn't we just take players you've touted over the years and take your "just wait" posts and just scratch their names off and insert Hooker's? How long should we go before citing "greatness takes time" or how many teams so and so went through before catching on? I can only hope you realize it's a deep pool from which to draw. OR you could sit down and, like the rest of us, wait and see what actually happens to a degree that any useful conclusions could be drawn.

 

[VOLLeeann]

I never said I was infallible FYI. So yes the Kelvin Taylor vs Derrick Henry take was an epic fail. But you know what wasn't a fail? My take that Alvin Kamara was a better RB prospect than Leonard Fournette and Dalvin Cook who were more highly rated. Or how about my take that Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson were the top two QB prospects in the 2018 draft over Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield? So while I'm not always right, I'm not always wrong either.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I'm going to cut you a little slack in that I think there are people that were trying to make a straight qualitative comparison so maybe that was leaking through. I, quite adamantly, have taken no part in that side of the conversation. It should be embarrassing to you I'm having to revisit this but I wholly and unambiguously stated I (and that same Lions staff) are aware the context surrounding Hooker AND just as unambiguously asserted there is still a timetable and Hendon being 26 already isn't helping. I also stated it would behoove him mightily to show them something during the actual preseason.

And since you invoked your talent scouting prowess and excuses: (note "supremely confident" and the kick the can down the road of "Just wait on it.")

D4H actually said Kelvin Taylor would be better than Derrick Henry

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I never said I was infallible FYI. So yes the Kelvin Taylor vs Derrick Henry take was an epic fail. But you know what wasn't a fail? My take that Alvin Kamara was a better RB prospect than Leonard Fournette and Dalvin Cook who were more highly rated. Or how about my take that Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson were the top two QB prospects in the 2018 draft over Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield? So while I'm not always right, I'm not always wrong either. Where I land in between those two extremes can be debated another day because that wasn't the point of my argument.

You turned my take on worldview when it comes to evaluating players into a referendum on my abilities to evaluate talent. Kudos to that expert argument technique. But let's get back to my point which wasn't about whether or not I'm better at evaluating talent than NFL teams. My point was in exposing your hypocrisy. If you trust the NFL guys when they say Dobbs isn't good enough because of his lack of opportunities then don't come in here giving me a litany of excuses for why Hendon isn't already the #2 at Detroit. He should be running ahead of Sudfeld if he's what you claimed him to be which is a superior player to Dobbs. And yet in Year 2 of his career at 26 years old he's 3rd on the depth chart. No different than the allergy inferior Dobbs when he was in a similar situation.

You can't have it one way with Dobbs and another with Hooker.

The same Dobbs that YOU TRASHED. Hooker is coming off an injury. That’s not an excuse but a fact. Dobbs has had plenty of opportunities to show his superstar potential as you call it. But he hasn’t. Why? Because he isn’t a superstar. There is nothing wrong with that. Playing QB in the NFL is very tough. Let’s see where Hooker is in year 8.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I have no hypocrisy you raving dolt. I've what, tripled down at this point that a 26yo Hooker is on a timetable and needs to acquit himself in some game (preseason) opportunities? Literally, LITERALLY the only thing I've argued (which isn't necessarily speaking for everyone who has commented, which I've also clarified) is that Hendon is contextually behind any qb that came into the league uninjured. That's it. Others may have argued more but take that up with them.

And oh boy is there an LOL in your take on the Henry prediction. You do realize that wasn't really put forth to point out the "epic fail" of your Henry v Taylor comparison. (though that's an amusing enough observation) No, it was, as cited even earlier, YOUR use of excuses and moving the timelines regarding players you've thrown your lot in with. (Hence the pointing out of "Just wait.") So hey, here's another.


There we go again...being told to "wait". It's rather a funny thought experiment. With Hooker not blowing the doors off shouldn't we just take players you've touted over the years and take your "just wait" posts and just scratch their names off and insert Hooker's? How long should we go before citing "greatness takes time" or how many teams so and so went through before catching on? I can only hope you realize it's a deep pool from which to draw. OR you could sit down and, like the rest of us, wait and see what actually happens to a degree that any useful conclusions could be drawn.

Your hypocrisy is in applying my standards of let's wait and see when it suits you (i.e. Hendon Hooker) versus when it doesn't **** you (i.e. Dobbs). I actually like Hooker and think he'll play well this preseason and win the backup job. So in essence I agree with your position here. But that's cause I'm a guy who doesn't take NFL coaches, GMs, or scouts opinions on players as gospel. You see I'm consistent. I apply my eye test in evaluating all players including Dobbs and Hooker. The hypocrisy I'm exposing is the fact you're more than happy to tell me I'm wrong about Dobbs when he was stuck 3rd in the depth chart but when it's Hooker you now wanna wait and see.

I'm consistent at all times. You're not. You pick and choose when to trust the coaches and when it's too early and we gotta wait and see.