8/12/12 exhibition game thread...

#51
#51
ITSGR82BATNVOL said:
The practices are invaluable, I agree, but they are not getting better playing the guys their playing in Italy.
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I would think they would be able to improve during those extra practices as well. Also doesn't hurt that the new guys get more experience with the rest of the team, and the incumbents get more experience with the new guys both at practice and on the court. Yes, the competition is weak, but we don't need to go balls-out when were not playing for an NCAA win.
 
#52
#52
ITSGR82BATNVOL said:
The practices are invaluable, I agree, but they are not getting better playing the guys their playing in Italy.
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I disagree.

It's 4-5 more extra practices basically. Today the team got to play zone against an opponent in a game setting, if not for this trip they likely wouldn't have that opportunity.

Who knows, that could come in big down the road, we may need that zone somewhere along the way.
 
#53
#53
ITSGR82BATNVOL said:
The practices are invaluable, I agree, but they are not getting better playing the guys their playing in Italy.
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Not true, when you're trying to groom Moore into our back up PG him playing in these games is vital. He's getting tons of live game experience at the point. No matter the competition it's great hes getting experience.
 
#55
#55
bleedingTNorange said:
I disagree.

It's 4-5 more extra practices basically. Today the team got to play zone against an opponent in a game setting, if not for this trip they likely wouldn't have that opportunity.

Who knows, that could come in big down the road, we may need that zone somewhere along the way.
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Also, from Quinn's videos it looked like they were picking up full court, something Martin didn't do much of last year. These overseas things do give coaches a chance to try different things in a no pressure environment.
 
#57
#57
Spartacavolus said:
The best coaches adapt to what's needed and learn from errors in judgement.
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Not sure I agree with this statement completely. Martin not playing zone last year was not an error in judgement. He had enough trouble trying to install his motion offense and his style of man to man. Trying to go zone on the fly would have been a disaster.
 
#58
#58
zansdad said:
Not sure I agree with this statement completely. Martin not playing zone last year was not an error in judgement. He had enough trouble trying to install his motion offense and his style of man to man. Trying to go zone on the fly would have been a disaster.
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I think Spart is talking from a CCM statement he made last year...CCM basically said his teams will never play zone, and that if we are in a zone it's probably a really bad sign.

That made it sound as if CCM wasn't ever to keen on the idea of learning, teaching and installing it. It's clear that it is definitely a good tool to have in the bag, and could've been nice to have last year, so seeing that he has changed his stance is a positive development.
 
#59
#59
bleedingTNorange said:
I think Spart is talking from a CCM statement he made last year...CCM basically said his teams will never play zone, and that if we are in a zone it's probably a really bad sign.

That made it sound as if CCM wasn't ever to keen on the idea of learning, teaching and installing it. It's clear that it is definitely a good tool to have in the bag, and could've been nice to have last year, so seeing that he has changed his stance is a positive development.
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I was specifically talking about the "error in judgement" part. There are plenty of coaches that never (or rarely ever) play zone so it can't be that big an error in judgement to skip putting in secondary stuff while your still trying to put in the basics.

As for what you think Sparty was saying. I really am not interested in debating that.
 
#60
#60
zansdad said:
I was specifically talking about the "error in judgement" part. There are plenty of coaches that never (or rarely ever) play zone so it can't be that big an error in judgement to skip putting in secondary stuff while your still trying to put in the basics.

As for what you think Sparty was saying. I really am not interested in debating that.
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I figured most succesful high major D1 coaches had a zone in the arsenal, maybe I'm wrong?
 
#61
#61
bleedingTNorange said:
I figured most succesful high major D1 coaches had a zone in the arsenal, maybe I'm wrong?
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Less than you would think teach any type zone, or at least enough to be any good at it. Remember all of Pearls teams and how they struggled vs zone defenses? If almost every coach had it in there arsenal why didn't more of them play it? Same goes for last years team. Last year's team really struggled vs zone and yet most teams didn't play zone. CCM isn't the only coach who had a strictly man to man philosophy. And it's not a bad philosophy if you got guys that can guard.
 
#62
#62
Well I like the idea of being able to throw it out there for 3-5 minutes in a certain game if needed, could be the difference in a W and a L.

Seems some of the most succesful teams atleast have it in their arsenal. Pretty sure UK employed a zone at times last year didn't they?
 
#63
#63
bleedingTNorange said:
Well I like the idea of being able to throw it out there for 3-5 minutes in a certain game if needed, could be the difference in a W and a L.

Seems some of the most succesful teams atleast have it in their arsenal. Pretty sure UK employed a zone at times last year didn't they?
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Maybe Cal has in the past but I don't think he did last year. His team last year was freakishly athletic at every position. No need to play zone when you can guard at every position and you have a phenomenal shot blocker behind you. Maybe if they had foul trouble in some game I didn't see.

I think some site (maybe Kenpom) actually tracks amount of zone and man played. Of course it's broken down on a team by team basis so it would give a very good over view of college basketball.

One of the problems with putting in zone is the limited hours coaches have available to them to actually be in front of their teams coaching. Most coaches pick a system and go with it. Even a few years ago when UT beat the Memphis team that had Rose on it and they wanted to force Nemphis to shoot 3's, they didn't play zone. They played man but basically kept one foot in the paint at all times. It was easier for Pearl to teach a sagging man than to try to implement a full zone concept. Personally I like zone defenses in college basketball. But most coaches just don't play it.
 
#64
#64
zansdad said:
Not sure I agree with this statement completely. Martin not playing zone last year was not an error in judgement. He had enough trouble trying to install his motion offense and his style of man to man. Trying to go zone on the fly would have been a disaster.
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Maybe it wasn't a judgement error, but he is adapting by trying a zone, when it didn't appear that he would, which is what I mentioned as well. I think he realizes there are times when its a necessity and can be used as a change of pace or to try and stop a run.
 
#67
#67
Spartacavolus said:
Maybe it wasn't a judgement error, but he is adapting by trying a zone, when it didn't appear that he would, which is what I mentioned as well. I think he realizes there are times when its a necessity and can be used as a change of pace or to try and stop a run.
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How does playing a zone stop a run? Change of pace maybe, but if a coach wants to stop a run they call timeout.
 
#69
#69
Spartacavolus said:
Have you been to a college basketball practice before? Teams practice everything, but focus on what they do best. 80/20 rule
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No I haven't. Have you been to the vast majority of them?

Edit: so you're telling me that in the few hours of practice alotted to college coaches by the NCAA that they spend time working on defenses they won't use? Do they also practice offenses they don't run as well?
 
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#70
#70
zansdad said:
How does playing a zone stop a run? Change of pace maybe, but if a coach wants to stop a run they call timeout.
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Change in pace can result in momentum swing or stopping a run. If you think the only way to stop a run is by calling a timeout, you are mistaken.
 
#71
#71
Spartacavolus said:
Change in pace can result in momentum swing or stopping a run. If you think the only way to stop a run is by calling a timeout, you are mistaken.
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Next time I see a top teir coach stop a run by switching defenses, I'll be sure to remember you pointed it out.
 
#72
#72
zansdad said:
No I haven't. Have you been to the vast majority of them?

Edit: so you're telling me that in the few hours of practice alotted to college coaches by the NCAA that they spend time working on defenses they won't use? Do they also practice offenses they don't run as well?
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I've been to more than I can count.

You are the one saying teams don't have a zone in their arsenal, not me.
And they work on a lot of things that aren't used, but focus more on things they use often.

And last, yes, each team has sets that they practice but seldom, if ever, use.
 
#73
#73
zansdad said:
Next time I see a top teir coach stop a run by switching defenses, I'll be sure to remember you pointed it out.
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I don't know why you decided to be a little smartass, but it's fine and I'm used to it.

Learn the game a little more before next season, and you might notice a few more things.
 
#74
#74
Spartacavolus said:
I don't know why you decided to be a little smartass, but it's fine and I'm used to it.

Learn the game a little more before next season, and you might notice a few more things.
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I know the game just fine. For a person that has been to so many practices you seem to be the one that needs to learn a few things.
 
#75
#75
zansdad said:
I know the game just fine. For a person that has been to so many practices you seem to be the one that needs to learn a few things.
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Right.

You haven't ever noticed a team switching up D to stop a penetrator or post matchup issue, yet tell me I need to learn. You haven't seen a team throw a zone, 3/4 or half court token pressure to make the O use some clock, get them out of rhythm, or force a bad shot.

Hit the books son. You got a ways to go. I suggest trying to not watch the ball bounce so much and watch the actual game.
 
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