9/11 Conspiracy Thread

[Danl]

Yep, one of the better threads on VN (Bigfoot thread being it's major competitor).

Sadly, this endemic of a school system which refuses to teach critical thinking. One takes a passion or emotion, hears a fanciful idea which plays on said passion/emotion, then runs with it as fast as their inept mind can go without ever stopping to think it through.

Indicative of American politics in general, just different topics.

This X1000.

 

[OrangeWayOfLife]

Ok so I went through and did some notes on the video I posted since none of you simpletons will watch it but can discuss building collapses for hours on end, hopefully I have enough space:
-Silverstien owned all three buildings
-After privatizing in 98 he was able to bump the insurance coverage from 1.2B to 3.55B in July 01
-After attacks he tried to file two separate claims, eventually reaching a settlement of 4.55B in 2007, largest in history
-Marsh and McLennan occupied floors 93-100, I also gave you a link for some info on these guys, they were a securities group
-They contracted Silverstream to perform paperless transactions for their clientel, first company to do so and acheiveing awards
-The deadline given to Silverstream was 9/11/01
-One member brought to the attention of suspicious movement of transactions, equally roughly $10m
-Was silenced by executives
-Meeting was scheduled for the morning of 9/11, the executive phoned in from a different location, all were killed expect witness who was late
-Convar uncovered data from debris
-They found an unexplained surge in transactions the day before (9/10) and many north of $100m
-Also found a massive data purge took place the day before from Duetche Bank, a client of Marsh. Marsh had ties with lots of big name banks
-Marsh executive Paul Brener, went on to oversee the occupation of Iraq, also gave the official story on the news rounds after the accident
-9/12/11 SEC opens investigation to unknown group of traders who made millions on insider trading and put options
-United Airlines, sold 90 times as many put options on 9/10 than the three weeks prior
-American Airlines and Morgan Stanley, who was the occupied the most space in the WTC also had abnormal put options placed on them.
-Raytheon, a defense contractor, saw a major increase in purchases the day prior and when the markets reopened had gained 30% value
-The SEC reviewed over 9.5 million transactions in relation to the attacks, largets investigation ever
-Claimed no one who had advanced knowledge of the attacks made trade moves
-Three Scientific papers came out, claiming the abnormally large number of put options being the largest red flag, saying that people made move in anticipation
-Stratesec was a security company who did business with the airport and the white house, and was run by relatives of the Bush family, they saw their share value double on the re open of the markets
-Carylye Group, had bin laden family investors, met at Ritz Carlton with H W Bush on 9/11, Osama's brother was in attendance, here I made a reference to Duetche Bank but it is illegible in my notes
-Ptech, an eneterprise acrheticture company, was designed to find problems in real time, specialized in risk maganement, used by JPMorgan
-Used to prevent money laudering, insder trading, etc
-Clients included, FBI, IRS, DoD, USAF, White House, Secret Service, Navy, USPS, and more
-Yasin al-Qadi was a Saudi investor in P-tech (BHAM this was what I was refeering to)
-He provided $5mil of the $20 mil start up cost of Ptech and continued investing after launch
-In 98 the UN council suspected him as funding al-Qaida
-It was reported he was even introduced as an owner
-He also direct ties to BMI
-Ptech was granted security clearances to perform their work, they could access nearly anything
-They also had to FAA and flight patterns
-9/11 commsission doesn't even mention Ptech
-In Dec 02, Ptech was raided, after a two weeks notice, nothing came of it
-Donald Rumsfeild on 9/10/01 declared a war on the pentagon beauracy in a presser
-They could not account for 2.6 trillion dollars
-Most financial staff and info were stored in wedge 1, where the "plane" striked
-In 2002 Thomas White was unable to produce a financial statement for the following year due to the amount of information lost in the attack
-He was also a senior executive at Enron
-The SEC occupied the 11-13 floors of WTC 7, they lost 3 to 4 thousand active case files in their bulding collapse


That's a lot of reading but it's better than an hour video. If you guys want to find the truth you need fight a different fight than the demolition angle. My theory, al-Qadi is the mastermind behind this, getting info from Ptech, possibly being aided. How many terroists were Saudi's again? And the CIA had the previous knowledge and took the opportunity to nuke their finance department and made a back door deal with Saudi Arabia with the invasion of the ME

 

[PKT_VOL]

Ok so I went through and did some notes on the video I posted since none of you simpletons will watch it but can discuss building collapses for hours on end, hopefully I have enough space:
-Silverstien owned all three buildings
-After privatizing in 98 he was able to bump the insurance coverage from 1.2B to 3.55B in July 01
-After attacks he tried to file two separate claims, eventually reaching a settlement of 4.55B in 2007, largest in history
-Marsh and McLennan occupied floors 93-100, I also gave you a link for some info on these guys, they were a securities group
-They contracted Silverstream to perform paperless transactions for their clientel, first company to do so and acheiveing awards
-The deadline given to Silverstream was 9/11/01
-One member brought to the attention of suspicious movement of transactions, equally roughly $10m
-Was silenced by executives
-Meeting was scheduled for the morning of 9/11, the executive phoned in from a different location, all were killed expect witness who was late
-Convar uncovered data from debris
-They found an unexplained surge in transactions the day before (9/10) and many north of $100m
-Also found a massive data purge took place the day before from Duetche Bank, a client of Marsh. Marsh had ties with lots of big name banks
-Marsh executive Paul Brener, went on to oversee the occupation of Iraq, also gave the official story on the news rounds after the accident
-9/12/11 SEC opens investigation to unknown group of traders who made millions on insider trading and put options
-United Airlines, sold 90 times as many put options on 9/10 than the three weeks prior
-American Airlines and Morgan Stanley, who was the occupied the most space in the WTC also had abnormal put options placed on them.
-Raytheon, a defense contractor, saw a major increase in purchases the day prior and when the markets reopened had gained 30% value
-The SEC reviewed over 9.5 million transactions in relation to the attacks, largets investigation ever
-Claimed no one who had advanced knowledge of the attacks made trade moves
-Three Scientific papers came out, claiming the abnormally large number of put options being the largest red flag, saying that people made move in anticipation
-Stratesec was a security company who did business with the airport and the white house, and was run by relatives of the Bush family, they saw their share value double on the re open of the markets
-Carylye Group, had bin laden family investors, met at Ritz Carlton with H W Bush on 9/11, Osama's brother was in attendance, here I made a reference to Duetche Bank but it is illegible in my notes
-Ptech, an eneterprise acrheticture company, was designed to find problems in real time, specialized in risk maganement, used by JPMorgan
-Used to prevent money laudering, insder trading, etc
-Clients included, FBI, IRS, DoD, USAF, White House, Secret Service, Navy, USPS, and more
-Yasin al-Qadi was a Saudi investor in P-tech (BHAM this was what I was refeering to)
-He provided $5mil of the $20 mil start up cost of Ptech and continued investing after launch
-In 98 the UN council suspected him as funding al-Qaida
-It was reported he was even introduced as an owner
-He also direct ties to BMI
-Ptech was granted security clearances to perform their work, they could access nearly anything
-They also had to FAA and flight patterns
-9/11 commsission doesn't even mention Ptech
-In Dec 02, Ptech was raided, after a two weeks notice, nothing came of it
-Donald Rumsfeild on 9/10/01 declared a war on the pentagon beauracy in a presser
-They could not account for 2.6 trillion dollars
-Most financial staff and info were stored in wedge 1, where the "plane" striked
-In 2002 Thomas White was unable to produce a financial statement for the following year due to the amount of information lost in the attack
-He was also a senior executive at Enron
-The SEC occupied the 11-13 floors of WTC 7, they lost 3 to 4 thousand active case files in their bulding collapse


That's a lot of reading but it's better than an hour video. If you guys want to find the truth you need fight a different fight than the demolition angle. My theory, al-Qadi is the mastermind behind this, getting info from Ptech, possibly being aided. How many terroists were Saudi's again? And the CIA had the previous knowledge and took the opportunity to nuke their finance department and made a back door deal with Saudi Arabia with the invasion of the ME

Assuming all your bullet points are true, I don't see how your theory follows.

 

[volnashun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aODIm8kf4sA

Research the info above. It really happened.

Also perform a Google search on these keywords, "Who Owns The Media?" That will help you begin to understand alot of what's going on.

 

[OrangeWayOfLife]

My theory is fluid first off, people are always bringing new information to light . Second, what don't you follow? And really, don't take my theory because I say that's what I think May have happened. Do your own research and make your own theory

 

[Danl]

My theory is fluid first off, people are always bringing new information to light . Second, what don't you follow? And really, don't take my theory because I say that's what I think May have happened. Do your own research and make your own theory

If we all do our own research and then, based on that research, we each come up with a different theory, how is that "finding the truth"?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

So just a question. Are every one of the structural engineers, physicists, demolition experts and scientists in these "conspiracy" videos just wrong?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I've been waiting for someone to post this. I can't believe it took this long for this post to pop up in the discussion.

It is the most obvious and absolutely irrefutable rebuttal to 9/11 "truthers" .

So that refutes every comment made by all of those scientists in the videos? Wrong. It doesnt refute anything. All that post was was another persons opinion. Just like every other post in this thread.

 

[bamawriter]

So just a question. Are every one of the structural engineers, physicists, demolition experts and scientists in these "conspiracy" videos just wrong?

I haven't watched them all. Most of the videos I've watched claim to quote the above, but don't actually feature their statements. But perhaps you can link to a few that do.

To answer your question in general terms: yes, the likelihood of them being wrong is much, much, much greater than the likelihood of them being correct.

 

[Carl Pickens]

I'm of the opinion that if you think the American government had any part in 9/11, or worse yet, actually covered it up, then you need to get your head examined. This is the same government who nearly ****s up everything they touch, but yet some people believe they have the ability to orchestrate the biggest cover-up in history.

Exactly! In one of the WTC video links posted on guy made the comment that the US govt couldn't cover up a semen stained dress yet many believe they could cover up 9/11.....

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

So, let's just say the government did 9/11. What happens? Do you suddenly realize government is the most ruthless institution in the history of the world? Do you stop paying taxes? Do you become anarchists? What happens if you find out they were behind 9/11? In other words, what's the end game?

Personally, I don't think the buildings were brought down by controlled demolition. I do think the government knew an attack was eminent and did nothing to stop it, similar to Pearl Harbor. Google operation able danger.

 

[Grand Vol]

So, let's just say the government did 9/11. What happens? Do you suddenly realize government is the most ruthless institution in the history of the world? Do you stop paying taxes? Do you become anarchists? What happens if you find out they were behind 9/11? In other words, what's the end game?

Personally, I don't think the buildings were brought down by controlled demolition. I do think the government knew an attack was eminent and did nothing to stop it, similar to Pearl Harbor. Google operation able danger.

As I said above, I have no doubts there was chatter in the terror world something was going down. But again, I think we far underestimated the scale of the attacks.

Think back to pre 9/11 times. Had someone told you hijackers would take four airliners simultaneously and crash them into the WTC and Pentagon, you would likely have scoffed and thought them crazy.

 

[Pacer92]

https://youtu.be/yRPWLqc5T20

 

[Pacer92]

https://youtu.be/EIy9hjB3DGk

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

As I said above, I have no doubts there was chatter in the terror world something was going down. But again, I think we far underestimated the scale of the attacks.

Think back to pre 9/11 times. Had someone told you hijackers would take four airliners simultaneously and crash them into the WTC and Pentagon, you would likely have scoffed and thought them crazy.

As it turns out they were training for that very thing, supposedly of course.

 

[Grand Vol]

As it turns out they were training for that very thing, supposedly of course.

But again, had someone come up to you and made that claim, what would you have said? Did you think what they did would be considered possible prior to it happening?

Just like the Japanese intelligence prior to Pearl Harbor, sometimes wild claims are tossed to the side since it seems far too audacious for anyone to actually go through with. Or they have faith that the system could stop them. (airport security stopping box cutters)

Many different factors here which would have led the intel community to dismiss the claims of something this massive as a pipe dream. Not defending the stance or actions, but I can see why they may have dismissed it as unworkable.

 

[FLVOL_79]

As I said above, I have no doubts there was chatter in the terror world something was going down. But again, I think we far underestimated the scale of the attacks.

Think back to pre 9/11 times. Had someone told you hijackers would take four airliners simultaneously and crash them into the WTC and Pentagon, you would likely have scoffed and thought them crazy.

100% accurate. In fact many of us in the special ops world had a HUGE push to get passports only 2 months before that September. And I mean like drop everything and get your a$$ over there and get the passport done...which was odd because we had just stopped doing our never ending 10 year rotations to Saudi for the no fly zones over Iraq. We (they) knew something was about to go down but probably couldn't pin point it.

A little profiling would have saved thousands and thousands of lives but hurting feelings > actually hurting people.

 

[hndog609]

My totally self-indulgent jab at what you have to believe (at least sort of) to be a "Truther".

9/11 early planning meeting. Supervisor Steve with Bill & Ted

Steve: So what have we got guys?
Bill: We’re going to hijack 4 planes and use them as guided missiles.
Steve: Oooh…very Clancy. What are the targets?
Ted: WTC towers, Pentagon and probably the Capitol for good measure. Well, we’re going to use an actual missile instead of the plane hijacked out of Dulles for the Pentagon. The actual plane we’re going to use to test our new wormhole technology. We’re 97% sure the actual plane will pop out near Alpha Centauri.
Steve: And the other 3%?
Bill: Well, it could come flying out of the faux-gina of a Thai tranny stripper in Bangkok some time in 2032.
Steve: Nice. Isn’t this supposed to take place around 9:30 on a Tuesday morning? Won’t there be a gazillion witnesses that something that isn’t a 757 flies over their head?
Ted: Don’t worry about that.
Steve: Uh-huh. So what’s our exposure?
Ted: Massive, security liabilities everywhere. All kinds of people are going to be in loop, including the SEC to help cover for the financial trading of people we like, who obviously themselves will have to be in the know. Actually we’ll have to keep a lid on all kinds of people right down to firemen on the ground.
Steve: Firemen?
Bill: We need the firemen to help with the demolition for the towers.
Steve: (spewing coffee) The WHAT?? And wait…you mean some firemen are supposed to HELP with something that not only kills a bunch of civilians but a slew of other firemen?
Ted: Oh, we’re counting on total secrecy and complicity on a galactic scale for this to work. Nothing to actually worry about though.
Steve, starting to look a bit concerned at this point: How the hell are we going to manage to rig WTC for demolition?
Bill: This part is awesome…Sith Goblins.
Steve: SITH GOBLINS!!!???
Ted: Yeah…out of Area 69. You know, where we keep the secrets coming in both directions. (Bill and Ted laugh) Anyway the Sith Goblins rig all gazillion demolition points and controls required to bring down buildings that size at what some people will swear is free fall speed and if they run into anyone they simply go “These are not the impossibly large amounts of demolition supplies you think they are.” and everything just goes away.

At this point a quiet person in the back pipes up

Sir? There has been another group of people working on multiple other scenarios which would accomplish, if not exceed, all the goals to be attained by this, errr, more elaborate plan you’ve just heard.

Bill: Oh we’ve got lots more crazy than what you’ve heard so far!

I’m sure you do. Anyway, we have multiple other plans we can undertake with far, far fewer logistical issues and security liabilities. Would you like to hear them?

Steve, Bill & Ted. NO!

 

[volinbham]

So just a question. Are every one of the structural engineers, physicists, demolition experts and scientists in these "conspiracy" videos just wrong?

Of course it varies by expert, what they were asked and if they did any real examination.

For example, if you ask a scientist if jet fuel burns hot enough to melt steel, he/she may so no and be technically correct but it appears steel did not melt.

So they aren't wrong but they are providing a fact based on wrong underlying assumptions.

If someone simply watches a video of a building collapse and concludes it was done as a controlled explosion they yes they are wrong because the are stating a fact based on insufficient data.

etc. etc.

 

[Grand Vol]

My totally self-indulgent jab at what you have to believe (at least sort of) to be a "Truther".

9/11 early planning meeting. Supervisor Steve with Bill & Ted

Steve: So what have we got guys?
Bill: We’re going to hijack 4 planes and use them as guided missiles.
Steve: Oooh…very Clancy. What are the targets?
Ted: WTC towers, Pentagon and probably the Capitol for good measure. Well, we’re going to use an actual missile instead of the plane hijacked out of Dulles for the Pentagon. The actual plane we’re going to use to test our new wormhole technology. We’re 97% sure the actual plane will pop out near Alpha Centauri.
Steve: And the other 3%?
Bill: Well, it could come flying out of the faux-gina of a Thai tranny stripper in Bangkok some time in 2032.
Steve: Nice. Isn’t this supposed to take place around 9:30 on a Tuesday morning? Won’t there be a gazillion witnesses that something that isn’t a 757 flies over their head?
Ted: Don’t worry about that.
Steve: Uh-huh. So what’s our exposure?
Ted: Massive, security liabilities everywhere. All kinds of people are going to be in loop, including the SEC to help cover for the financial trading of people we like, who obviously themselves will have to be in the know. Actually we’ll have to keep a lid on all kinds of people right down to firemen on the ground.
Steve: Firemen?
Bill: We need the firemen to help with the demolition for the towers.
Steve: (spewing coffee) The WHAT?? And wait…you mean some firemen are supposed to HELP with something that not only kills a bunch of civilians but a slew of other firemen?
Ted: Oh, we’re counting on total secrecy and complicity on a galactic scale for this to work. Nothing to actually worry about though.
Steve, starting to look a bit concerned at this point: How the hell are we going to manage to rig WTC for demolition?
Bill: This part is awesome…Sith Goblins.
Steve: SITH GOBLINS!!!???
Ted: Yeah…out of Area 69. You know, where we keep the secrets coming in both directions. (Bill and Ted laugh) Anyway the Sith Goblins rig all gazillion demolition points and controls required to bring down buildings that size at what some people will swear is free fall speed and if they run into anyone they simply go “These are not the impossibly large amounts of demolition supplies you think they are.” and everything just goes away.

At this point a quiet person in the back pipes up

Sir? There has been another group of people working on multiple other scenarios which would accomplish, if not exceed, all the goals to be attained by this, errr, more elaborate plan you’ve just heard.

Bill: Oh we’ve got lots more crazy than what you’ve heard so far!

I’m sure you do. Anyway, we have multiple other plans we can undertake with far, far fewer logistical issues and security liabilities. Would you like to hear them?

Steve, Bill & Ted. NO!

 

[theFallGuy]

my totally self-indulgent jab at what you have to believe (at least sort of) to be a "truther".

9/11 early planning meeting. Supervisor steve with bill & ted

steve: So what have we got guys?
Bill: We’re going to hijack 4 planes and use them as guided missiles.
Steve: Oooh…very clancy. What are the targets?
Ted: Wtc towers, pentagon and probably the capitol for good measure. Well, we’re going to use an actual missile instead of the plane hijacked out of dulles for the pentagon. The actual plane we’re going to use to test our new wormhole technology. We’re 97% sure the actual plane will pop out near alpha centauri.
Steve: And the other 3%?
Bill: Well, it could come flying out of the faux-gina of a thai tranny stripper in bangkok some time in 2032.
Steve: Nice. Isn’t this supposed to take place around 9:30 on a tuesday morning? Won’t there be a gazillion witnesses that something that isn’t a 757 flies over their head?
Ted: Don’t worry about that.
Steve: Uh-huh. So what’s our exposure?
Ted: Massive, security liabilities everywhere. All kinds of people are going to be in loop, including the sec to help cover for the financial trading of people we like, who obviously themselves will have to be in the know. Actually we’ll have to keep a lid on all kinds of people right down to firemen on the ground.
Steve: Firemen?
Bill: We need the firemen to help with the demolition for the towers.
Steve: (spewing coffee) the what?? And wait…you mean some firemen are supposed to help with something that not only kills a bunch of civilians but a slew of other firemen?
Ted: Oh, we’re counting on total secrecy and complicity on a galactic scale for this to work. Nothing to actually worry about though.
Steve, starting to look a bit concerned at this point: How the hell are we going to manage to rig wtc for demolition?
Bill: This part is awesome…sith goblins.
Steve: Sith goblins!!!???
Ted: Yeah…out of area 69. You know, where we keep the secrets coming in both directions. (bill and ted laugh) anyway the sith goblins rig all gazillion demolition points and controls required to bring down buildings that size at what some people will swear is free fall speed and if they run into anyone they simply go “these are not the impossibly large amounts of demolition supplies you think they are.” and everything just goes away.

At this point a quiet person in the back pipes up

sir? There has been another group of people working on multiple other scenarios which would accomplish, if not exceed, all the goals to be attained by this, errr, more elaborate plan you’ve just heard.

Bill: Oh we’ve got lots more crazy than what you’ve heard so far!

I’m sure you do. Anyway, we have multiple other plans we can undertake with far, far fewer logistical issues and security liabilities. Would you like to hear them?

Steve, bill & ted. No!

lol

 

[Pacer92]

Good physics lesson...

https://youtu.be/c4d2Mt2a6iM

 

[PKT_VOL]

My theory is fluid first off, people are always bringing new information to light.

Fluid? Really? 14 years later? If your theory is "fluid", you don't really have a "theory", but rather are aimlessly grasping at straws.

Second, what don't you follow? And really, don't take my theory because I say that's what I think May have happened. Do your own research and make your own theory

I don't follow your theory from your "facts". Bear in mind, for the sake of the argument, I haven't contested any of your facts or implications of your theory.

I simply fail to see where you glean your theory from your posted facts. It doesn't follow unless there are other facts which you haven't posted that support your theory.

 

[Ttucke11]

It's definitely more believable that 19 Saudis with box cutters hijacked 4 planes from pilots with military backgrounds then had the expertise to fly said planes with very little training into buildings. Especially the one that hit the pentagon seeing as he turned a video game like radius, even though he was already headed straight at the pentagon, in order to nail the least populated part of the pentagon that held all financial records. Records that might've led to the missing 2.6 trillion dollars Rumsfeld mentioned missing the day before. And then 7 hours later a 47 story building just decides it's going to fall down as well. Even though no debris or planes hit it. Then instead of going to war with the Saudis, the ones who allegedly did it, we invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Definitely a more believable story.

 

[MG1968]

It's definitely more believable that 19 Saudis with box cutters hijacked 4 planes from pilots with military backgrounds then had the expertise to fly said planes with very little training into buildings. Especially the one that hit the pentagon seeing as he turned a video game like radius, even though he was already headed straight at the pentagon, in order to nail the least populated part of the pentagon that held all financial records. Records that might've led to the missing 2.6 trillion dollars Rumsfeld mentioned missing the day before. And then 7 hours later a 47 story building just decides it's going to fall down as well. Even though no debris or planes hit it. Then instead of going to war with the Saudis, the ones who allegedly did it, we invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Definitely a more believable story.

This kind of idiocy is why we can't have nice things.