99 Sports Animal

[Liper]

Originally posted by GAVol@Nov 15, 2005 1:22 PM
Since Miami has gotten in along with BC and Va Tech, there's no doubt the ACC is a strong conference, but you've got to admit that it was a little weak prior to that.  It was basically FSU and occasionally a team like Virginia or Maryland would be pretty good, then Clemson, NC State, Ga Tech, UNC would all battle it out to see who would win 7 games and get the other bowl bid.

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Agreed. ACC was weak until lately.

However, FSU beat all of those weak teams; and in the process, they beat MIA and FL quite a bit too. Those were the BEST Florida teams too (Spurrier). That tells me that, all things being equal, they would have done the same thing to all of those 8-4 GA type teams as well.

FSU has never ducked anyone schedule wise. With MIA, FL, and a bowl game, I'd say their wins are legit.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Nov 15, 2005 12:18 PM
When it comes to talent, remember that UT isn't the only "talented" team in the SEC.  We have been for several years in the past, but I think as of now, everyone else has just as much, if not more.

We have more successful players in the NFL than UF, but they beat us all of those times in the 90's under Spurrier.  So coaching also played a factor.  And it also goes to show that as much as you guys praise Cutcliff, he was inferior to Spurrier offensively.

We did lose to LSU in a game we should have won, but that LSU roster was stacked as well.  A good % (similar to UT's) is currently in the NFL, and doing well.  They were just as talented as we were.  Check ESPN.com and look at their players in the league.  Many of them were on that 2001 team.

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1.Agreed. Talent in SEC is pretty equal right now at the top.

2.We may have had a slight talent advantage over FL, but they were beating everyone pretty soundly. Spurrier was the man with the plan there.

3.LSU was coming along, and they had good talent. But their talent had not yet "arrived." Our talent was mature and more broad-based. In other words, a true freshman playing 5 snaps for LSU wasn't quite the same thing as John Henderson playing his Sr season. I just don't buy that at all.

P.S. Mauck, true frosh QB out of the game for 4 years, beat us over an entire half of football against an NFL defensive line playing the run. Someone explain that to me!

QB TN
WR TN
RB LSU
OL Tie
DL TN
LB Tie
DB TN

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 15, 2005 1:36 PM
Agreed.  ACC was weak until lately.

However, FSU beat all of those weak teams; and in the process, they beat MIA and FL quite a bit too.  Those were the BEST Florida teams too (Spurrier).  That tells me that, all things being equal, they would have done the same thing to all of those 8-4 GA type teams as well.

FSU has never ducked anyone schedule wise.  With MIA, FL, and a bowl game, I'd say their wins are legit.

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The only Miami coach FSU has had any success against was really Dennis Ericson. JJ, Butch Davis(after probation), and Larry Coker have had their way with FSU. FSU did duck joining the SEC. I think that says something.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 15, 2005 1:50 PM
The only Miami coach FSU has had any success against was really Dennis Ericson. JJ, Butch Davis(after probation), and Larry Coker have had their way with FSU. FSU did duck joining the SEC. I think that says something.

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They somehow managed to finish in the top 4 for 14 years in a row. It ebbs and flows. Sometim MIA was better, sometime the other way around.

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 15, 2005 2:00 PM
They somehow managed to finish in the top 4 for 14 years in a row.  It ebbs and flows.  Sometim MIA was better, sometime the other way around.

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I don't disparage FSU's tremendous run through the late '80s and '90s. I do think their record would be less impressive had they joined the SEC in '92.

 

[Liper]

Since 1993 FSU holds a 7-6 lead over MIA.

From 1995-1999 FSU won 5 consecutive.

From 1999-2004 MIA won 5 consecutive.

Show me in there where MIA has dominated FSU, and I'll show you how midgets can dominate the NBA.

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 15, 2005 2:06 PM
Since 1993 FSU holds a 7-6 lead over MIA.

From 1995-1999 FSU won 5 consecutive.

From 1999-2004 MIA won 5 consecutive.

Show me in there where MIA has dominated FSU, and I'll show you how midgets can dominate the NBA.

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Check "85 through '93. Convenient how you focused on the end of the Ericson era and the probation years to find some FSU success.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 15, 2005 2:09 PM
Check "85 through '93. Convenient how you focused on the end of the Ericson era and the probation years to find some FSU success.

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I didn't conveniently do anything. We were talking about the FSU-ACC era. And during that era, FSU holds a slight lead over Miami.

What were you talking about? Did I miss something?

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 15, 2005 2:15 PM
I didn't conveniently do anything.  We were talking about the FSU-ACC era.  And during that era, FSU holds a slight lead over Miami.

What were you talking about?  Did I miss something?

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I was comparing UM and FSU. I think Miami's collapse in the mid-90s is well documented. That means FSU's schedule in those years wasn't as tough as it would look on paper. As for the ACC, show me another elite team in that league before they added the Canes and VTech.

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 15, 2005 2:06 PM
Since 1993 FSU holds a 7-6 lead over MIA.

From 1995-1999 FSU won 5 consecutive.

From 1999-2004 MIA won 5 consecutive.

Show me in there where MIA has dominated FSU, and I'll show you how midgets can dominate the NBA.

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Very well stated...

:clapping:

 

[gonygonygo]

IMO, FSU has been more impressive in the last 10-15 years than UT. No matter how weak you guys think their competition has been. Besides our NC year (when we barely beat them), they have overall been a better team.

 

[gonygonygo]

How fast people become ungrateful of their team's successes in the past (distant and recent) when their team has one or two bad seasons. It's the cycle and law of averages. Nobody will be on top forever.

 

[GAVol]

It's not that I disaree with you about FSU, it just seems to me that our success sometimes gets minimized. In fact, you just did it when you said we "barely beat them". It was a 23-16 victory that was never really in doubt.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 15, 2005 2:23 PM
I was comparing UM and FSU. I think Miami's collapse in the mid-90s is well documented. That means FSU's schedule in those years wasn't as tough as it would look on paper. As for the ACC, show me another elite team in that league before they added the Canes and VTech.

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It appears that you're dismissing the things that counter your position and changing the subject when you run out.

Miami hardly collapsed. They just declined. Winning 9 and 10 games is hardly a collapse.

FSU's schedule included FL every year as well. It also included a bowl game against a top teir teams.

I stated very clearly that the ACC was a weaker conference before BC, VT, and MIA came in. I also showed how FSU was beating great teams outside that conference. Moreover, a team that can consistently beat 2nd and 3rd tier teams badly is a good team.

 

[Voluminous1]

A look at the numbers:

93-98
Winning % Overall 84%, Conference 84%, Ranked Opponents 63%

99-Present
Overall 71%, Conference 67%, Ranked Opponents 47%

93-98
Average Pts Per Game - 35
Average Pts Allowed - 17

99-Present
Average Pts Per Game - 28
Avarage Pts Allowed - 18


http://voluminous.blogspot.com

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Nov 15, 2005 2:30 PM
IMO, FSU has been more impressive in the last 10-15 years than UT.  No matter how weak you guys think their competition has been.  Besides our NC year (when we barely beat them), they have overall been a better team.

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My point was regarding the previou 3-4 years. Tennessee was vastly superior in '01. Both teams were mediocre in '02. I would give Tennessee the advantge in "03 for winning at Miami and Florida. Tennessee had a better year last year. Obviously, FSU is superior this year.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by GAVol@Nov 15, 2005 11:18 AM
I'd say these two programs are pretty identical; especially when you consider the level of competition that FSU was playing in the ACC up until very recently.

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GAVol,

You're a balanced guy, but you must be joking. FSU and TN identical?

If you are referring to just the last 3 or 4 years, I can buy some of that. But over the last 10-15 years they have been out of our league better; like miles and miles better.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by Voluminous1@Nov 15, 2005 2:40 PM
A look at the numbers:

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Whose numbers? FSU or TN?

And what's your point?

 

[GAVol]

No Liper . . . I'm not on crack. I meant the last few years. We've been pretty good in the last 15 years, but FSU has been about as good as it gets.

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 15, 2005 2:43 PM
GAVol,

You're a balanced guy, but you must be joking.  FSU and TN identical?

If you are referring to just the last 3 or 4 years, I can buy some of that.  But over the last 10-15 years they have been out of our league better; like miles and miles better.

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Agreed. Kinda like USC right now. They play weak teams in the Pac-10, but they are vastly superior to any team in the SEC right now.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by GAVol@Nov 15, 2005 2:46 PM
No Liper . . . I'm not on crack.  I meant the last few years.  We've been pretty good in the last 15 years, but FSU has been about as good as it gets.

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Well, I wasn't insulting you...just making sure. :bow:

FSU had an amazing run.

TN had a good run of consistency, but they never really capitalized, in my opinion. It was always an excuse or a game away from being a game away.

I think we had our chance to dominate and missed it.

 

[allvol]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Nov 15, 2005 12:20 PM
According to NFL rosters, we probably had more talent than UF, yet they kicked our a$$es all those times.  Someone explain that to me.  And that was under the Cutcliff years.

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Danny Wuerrfel = 4 wins from 1993-1996

Tennessee won in 1990 and 1992 and then in 1998. The series is even since 1998.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by allvol@Nov 15, 2005 2:54 PM
Danny Wuerrfel = 4 wins from 1993-1996

Tennessee won in 1990 and 1992 and then in 1998.  The series is even since 1998.

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This is subjective but TN has better talent and better teams and lost in the following non-Wuerfell years:

91
93
97
99

 

[allvol]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 15, 2005 2:53 PM
Well, I wasn't insulting you...just making sure. :bow:

FSU had an amazing run.

TN had a good run of consistency, but they never really capitalized, in my opinion.  It was always an excuse or a game away from being a game away.

I think we had our chance to dominate and missed it.

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FSU won the ACC from 1992 to 2000 and again in 2002 & 2003. All pre- Miami and Va Tech in the ACC.

For all their dominance, they only won National Titles twice... in 1993 and 1999. Only one of those seasons did they finish undefeated.

 

[GAVol]

I still have nightmares of Danny Wuerrfel turning our DBs inside out. It's popular to pin the losses on Manning not getting the job done, but our secondary got abused on an annual basis.