A Thread For The Coaching Search Family!

[patrick]

Yet another rough one for the Vols!

Not seeing a well coached team on the field, I understand we lack talent, speed and depth but that cannot explain away what I see on the field.....

 

[SmokinBob]

come on, take one for the team!

You can DO it!

 

[Grand Vol]

Target practice!

Maybe...

 

[Orangeslice13]

Yet another rough one for the Vols!

Not seeing a well coached team on the field, I understand we lack talent, speed and depth but that cannot explain away what I see on the field.....

Alabama is the best in collage football. Against any NFL team they will look poorly coached.

 

[Coastypop]

Yet another rough one for the Vols!

Not seeing a well coached team on the field, I understand we lack talent, speed and depth but that cannot explain away what I see on the field.....

Speed was an issue for sure...and no matter how good a coaching staff is, you can't change that...

But you are correct...about a few things here for sure: tackling is terrible, angles are all wrong, and we are often out of position...when in position we lack one on one skills.

And I don't believe I have ever saw a Tennessee team have a worse special teams play than yesterday..I grew up at a time when we knew we would always win special teams play no matter how bad other area's are.

I MISS THOSE DAYS

 

[InVOLuntary]

The first drizzle of doubt that "Butch gets it" has creeped in to the back of my mind.

 

[Grand Vol]

You know, this thread seemed to have people that were willing to give this new coaching staff a shot.

But it's starting to look no different than the FF guys with their doom and gloom hourly reports about how much our program sucks.

Ten games played so far, 7 out of those 10 teams we've played are ranked, five of those ranked in the top 10. New coach, new system with old players many of which have been recruited by three different coaching staffs under three different offensive and defensive systems. Old habits, slow players, no depth at positions. Playing hurt. Underclassmen in almost every position.

Would have figured most of you guys would be at least willing to give it a year before starting to have doubts.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

You know, this thread seemed to have people that were willing to give this new coaching staff a shot.

But it's starting to look no different than the FF guys with their doom and gloom hourly reports about how much our program sucks.

Ten games played so far, 7 out of those 10 teams we've played are ranked, five of those ranked in the top 10. New coach, new system with old players many of which have been recruited by three different coaching staffs under three different offensive and defensive systems. Old habits, slow players, no depth at positions. Playing hurt. Underclassmen in almost every position.

Would have figured most of you guys would be at least willing to give it a year before starting to have doubts.

I get what you are saying, but it's hard to hold a smile while continually getting kicked in the nuts.

 

[SmokinBob]

You know, this thread seemed to have people that were willing to give this new coaching staff a shot.

But it's starting to look no different than the FF guys with their doom and gloom hourly reports about how much our program sucks.

Ten games played so far, 7 out of those 10 teams we've played are ranked, five of those ranked in the top 10. New coach, new system with old players many of which have been recruited by three different coaching staffs under three different offensive and defensive systems. Old habits, slow players, no depth at positions. Playing hurt. Underclassmen in almost every position.

Would have figured most of you guys would be at least willing to give it a year before starting to have doubts.

Agreed Grand Vol - they'll be ok though - they just gotta walk it off! 😏

 

[InVOLuntary]

You know, this thread seemed to have people that were willing to give this new coaching staff a shot.

But it's starting to look no different than the FF guys with their doom and gloom hourly reports about how much our program sucks.

Ten games played so far, 7 out of those 10 teams we've played are ranked, five of those ranked in the top 10. New coach, new system with old players many of which have been recruited by three different coaching staffs under three different offensive and defensive systems. Old habits, slow players, no depth at positions. Playing hurt. Underclassmen in almost every position.

Would have figured most of you guys would be at least willing to give it a year before starting to have doubts.

What made this thread a litte different was you could express those doubts without being a dubbed a negavol. I've not seen one post calling for CBJ's head. I don't know of one poster that's been unreasonable. I've not seen one poster that thought the Vols should have beaten any of the last three teams. But, if the lack of competitiveness has not caused you to take just small amount of pause, I applaud you for your blind optimism.

 

[SmokinBob]

What made this thread a litte different was you could express those doubts without being a dubbed a negavol. I've not seen one post calling for CBJ's head. I don't know of one poster that's been unreasonable. I've not seen one poster that thought the Vols should have beaten any of the last three teams. But, if the lack of competitiveness has not caused you to take just small amount of pause, I applaud you for your blind optimism.

Optimism isn't always blind! 😎 I appreciate the respect for each other we show and the fun we have here!

 

[Orangeslice13]

optimism isn't always blind! 😎 i appreciate the respect for each other we show and the fun we have here!

stfu

 

[Orangeslice13]

 

[SmokinBob]

:shades:

 

[Orangeslice13]

:shades:

 

[steve328]

Slice being Slice.

Good post, InVOLuntary, completely agree. Not wanting a new coach, just recuperating from the loss. I'll be ready for the dores, hope our Vols are.

 

[steve328]

It's been a killer schedule - nothing like I remember before. We're low on talent, again like I don't remember. But at times we beat ourselves with lack of discipline. Drive killing false starts, celebration penalties, and just not seeming to have their heads in the game at times. Butch impressed everyone with discipline at the first of the year and we seem to have regressed somewhat. But stuff happens. I think we'll see a different team after this break. I think the SEC is a different animal than what Butch expected and he's learning as he goes, but we are so much better off with this coach than what we've had in years. Butch does get it and I think he's what we need to get back to competing every week. It will take time and it's still going to be frustrating at times. JMO

Not a negaVol, just a Vol. GBO

 

[Coastypop]

It's been a killer schedule - nothing like I remember before. We're low on talent, again like I don't remember. But at times we beat ourselves with lack of discipline. Drive killing false starts, celebration penalties, and just not seeming to have their heads in the game at times. Butch impressed everyone with discipline at the first of the year and we seem to have regressed somewhat. But stuff happens. I think we'll see a different team after this break. I think the SEC is a different animal than what Butch expected and he's learning as he goes, but we are so much better off with this coach than what we've had in years. Butch does get it and I think he's what we need to get back to competing every week. It will take time and it's still going to be frustrating at times. JMO

Not a negaVol, just a Vol. GBO

No Nega's in this thread steve,,,, just a tight knit group that wants the Vols to win

 

[InVOLuntary]

Slice being Slice.

Good post, InVOLuntary, completely agree. Not wanting a new coach, just recuperating from the loss. I'll be ready for the dores, hope our Vols are.

I meant no disrespect to Grand Vol. Butch is going through rough times. What I can't understand is how your jumped on if you are the least bit critical of the staff but the players are fair game.

 

[steve328]

I meant no disrespect to Grand Vol. Butch is going through rough times. What I can't understand is how your jumped on if you are the least bit critical of the staff but the players are fair game.

I meant no disrespect to Grand Vol, either. I apologize if it appeared that way. I enjoy his posts.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I meant no disrespect to Grand Vol, either. I apologize if it appeared that way. I enjoy his posts.

Me too. He's a good dude.

 

[Grand Vol]

But, if the lack of competitiveness has not caused you to take just small amount of pause, I applaud you for your blind optimism.

I'm an analytical type, have to have been in my job especially breaking things down into basic forms to get to the root problems. And breaking it down, there appeared to be a lack of competitiveness due mainly to the overwhelming lack of talent on this team. I'm not saying the players didn't give it their best shot, which it appeared they shut down in the game, but overall it came down to being simply outclassed. Coaching decisions might have been better, but it was just as easy to stop the tides from coming in as it would have to stop Marshall and Mason on the ground with the talent level we have.

For me, it's not blind optimism, but the fact these players are by and large not Butch recruits and were not specifically recruited to play his offensive/defensive strategy. And the talent levels we've played this year have been from insanely strong to having ludicrous speed, especially the last three games. So to me, he gets a pass this year and there is no "doubt" creeping into my mind about the coaching potential because there hasn't been enough games played with good quality players to make a determination either way. Same goes with the coaching staff. I think they've done about the best they could under the circumstances.

My apologies if my frustration was too pointed. Just came unglued a bit over the fan base that calls for heads and we end up in the same mess we have right now. "Bench Worley! He sucks! He's a cancer!" although after the USCjr game he quickly became the "cure." "God this O Line is overrated!" although they have done a remarkable job at protecting the QB this year and allowed one of our backs to (more than likely) reach a thousand and another to reach 500. "Butch, Jancek, Et Al suck as coaches! Get rid of them before they do irreparable harm!" Although I doubt very seriously there is any coaching staff in the NCAA that could do much better with the schedule we play or with the talent (lack thereof) we have.

Not saying this directly at you guys, just overall frustrated at the fan base that's as fickle as an ex-wife that didn't get her alimony check. Which is part of the reason we've ended up in this mess to begin with. Started with Fulmer and how he certainly wasn't good enough for Tennessee leading to the disaster of Kiffin and on to the ineptitude of Dooley. I tend to look at the good things that have happened this year rather than get wrapped around the axle over the bad things. I'm a sunshine pumper lol

But make no mistake, if we aren't showing marked improvement and end up in the same boat next year, I'll be first in line questioning the abilities of one Butch Jones and company.

 

[Grand Vol]

I get what you are saying, but it's hard to hold a smile while continually getting kicked in the nuts.

I got you Doyle, and I'm not smiling. It's tragic to think of the fact that historically there were three teams to beat in the SEC: Bama, Georgia and Tennessee. These were the measuring sticks in anyone's program if you wanted to see how good you really were.

And now we're a joke compared to where we were as little as a decade ago.

But taking a moment to pause and think of why we happen to continually get kicked in the nuts this year is the point I was making. Don't care what anyone else says, this schedule has been brutal. Never seen anyone else in my life play four top 15 teams in a row, much less three top 10 teams. Yeah, the coaches could have done things a bit differently, players could have kept it up, etc. But again, we had as much chance of winning any of the last three games as my dog does of playing Beethoven on a grand piano.

It hurts getting kicked in the nuts, I agree. But everyone knew...well, nobody could foresee how Mizzou and Auburn would have risen like they did this year, but everyone knew this schedule would take a lot of overplaying our talent levels and a lot of lucky breaks on our side to accomplish the impossible.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I'm an analytical type, have to have been in my job especially breaking things down into basic forms to get to the root problems. And breaking it down, there appeared to be a lack of competitiveness due mainly to the overwhelming lack of talent on this team. I'm not saying the players didn't give it their best shot, which it appeared they shut down in the game, but overall it came down to being simply outclassed. Coaching decisions might have been better, but it was just as easy to stop the tides from coming in as it would have to stop Marshall and Mason on the ground with the talent level we have.

For me, it's not blind optimism, but the fact these players are by and large not Butch recruits and were not specifically recruited to play his offensive/defensive strategy. And the talent levels we've played this year have been from insanely strong to having ludicrous speed, especially the last three games. So to me, he gets a pass this year and there is no "doubt" creeping into my mind about the coaching potential because there hasn't been enough games played with good quality players to make a determination either way. Same goes with the coaching staff. I think they've done about the best they could under the circumstances.

My apologies if my frustration was too pointed. Just came unglued a bit over the fan base that calls for heads and we end up in the same mess we have right now. "Bench Worley! He sucks! He's a cancer!" although after the USCjr game he quickly became the "cure." "God this O Line is overrated!" although they have done a remarkable job at protecting the QB this year and allowed one of our backs to (more than likely) reach a thousand and another to reach 500. "Butch, Jancek, Et Al suck as coaches! Get rid of them before they do irreparable harm!" Although I doubt very seriously there is any coaching staff in the NCAA that could do much better with the schedule we play or with the talent (lack thereof) we have.

Not saying this directly at you guys, just overall frustrated at the fan base that's as fickle as an ex-wife that didn't get her alimony check. Which is part of the reason we've ended up in this mess to begin with. Started with Fulmer and how he certainly wasn't good enough for Tennessee leading to the disaster of Kiffin and on to the ineptitude of Dooley. I tend to look at the good things that have happened this year rather than get wrapped around the axle over the bad things. I'm a sunshine pumper lol

But make no mistake, if we aren't showing marked improvement and end up in the same boat next year, I'll be first in line questioning the abilities of one Butch Jones and company.

Good post Grand Vol. I understand the difficulties that Butch and staff are dealing with. There is an obvious talent gap. My problem is more with the players being out of position and a lack of fundamentals. If you are truly so outmatched talent wise, those mistakes get amplified. I don't think we need ANY coaching changes. I think these coaches are struggling with scheme. I knew Auburn would hammer us because I knew Mahlzan would out couch our staff, he's that good. IF you look at the Missouri game, from a talent standpoint we, are not that far behind, but they were able to make us look like a high school team. That is coaching. I honestly don't think Butch and Co. are getting 100% out of the talent over there however lacking that talent might be.

Now next year, I don't expect much different. We will be replacing both the offense and defensive lines. Our skill positions should have more experience and we are bringing in some real studs too. I really expect another struggle to reach a bowl game.

Finally, there are very few coaches that are the complete package. Ironically, when Butch was hired I thought he would be a great motivator and X's and O's coach and he would struggle with recruiting. It has turned out to be quite the opposite. I think he is relatively inexperienced and it is showing on the scheme side. I do think he can get there with time.

Everybody wants to compare Butch to Nick Saban's first year at Alabama, I think it is more appropriate to compare it to his first year at LSU. It is eerily similar to our year this year. While he did finish with a better record (8-4), he was blown out several games and his schedule was nowhere near this year's UT schedule. His second year was the year he beat us in the SECCG when we were ranked number 2 and headed to the NCG.

 

[Grand Vol]

Now next year, I don't expect much different. We will be replacing both the offense and defensive lines. Our skill positions should have more experience and we are bringing in some real studs too. I really expect another struggle to reach a bowl game.

I don't think so in my opinion. Yes, replacing the defensive and offensive lines will be a problem, but looking at the remainder of the SEC teams on our schedule next year?

Georgia and USCjr will both be in rebuilding mode. Chances are Franklin is going to bolt for another school (which one remains to be seen) so Vandy heads back downward. Kentucky is...well, Kentucky lol. Florida is a dumpster fire waiting to happen and Muschamp will be lucky to survive this season much less a bad start to next year. Which leaves Mizzou as the only program besides ours bringing back a lot of talent that's seen significant playing time this year.

So a run at the SEC East is well within our grasp next year.

Finally, there are very few coaches that are the complete package. Ironically, when Butch was hired I thought he would be a great motivator and X's and O's coach and he would struggle with recruiting. It has turned out to be quite the opposite. I think he is relatively inexperienced and it is showing on the scheme side. I do think he can get there with time.

I can partially agree. His offensive schemes have been fairly vanilla so far this year. But...

Going from the Big East (which is a substandard conference no matter what anyone in the BCS committee says or thinks) to the premier NCAA conference is not an easy task. Most of the head coaches in the conference have had significant time in the SEC as coordinators or head coaching jobs before. The notable exceptions to this are Pinkel and Sumlin and Sumlin has Manziel to thank for his success. This is not a conference that is easy on first year head coaches.

Additionally, changing from the entrenched dogma of pro style QB offense to a spread and read option will take some time and is compounded by the fact the players in position so far are ill suited for that offense. Worley is a pro style trying to adapt to the read option and didn't do it very well. Not a bad QB mind you, just not one intended for the offense that CBJ brought in.

I'm thinking as the players get recruited into positions intended for that offense as well as everyone gets on the same page of music, you will see a lot more offensive production. As well as a lot more plays that folks just don't see coming.

Everybody wants to compare Butch to Nick Saban's first year at Alabama, I think it is more appropriate to compare it to his first year at LSU. It is eerily similar to our year this year. While he did finish with a better record (8-4), he was blown out several games and his schedule was nowhere near this year's UT schedule. His second year was the year he beat us in the SECCG when we were ranked number 2 and headed to the NCG.

Pretty sure Saban at LSU didn't have our schedule lol. And as stated before, I don't think there is a coaching staff out there that could do much better than we are sitting right now. And a few that would do far worse.