Abortion Rights

#182
#182
n_huffhines said:
It's what I meant by "life". A fly is life, but it's OK to kill a fly. It's not OK to kill a person. Sorry I wasn't 100% on with my semantics from the get go.
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this then becomes a philosophical/religious debate, which typically have no "real" answers. at least none that can be applied broadly to a subject.

for a lot of the pro-lifers, life/personhood is the same thing.

for the prochoice crowd it seems to come down to whether the woman wants it or not.

I also find the zygote/really freaking early stages to be a red herring. No woman is going to know THAT early on. its my understanding they can't pee on a stick the next day and tell if they are pregnant. by the time they typically know they are FAR past those early "vague" stages of what is rolling around in her insides. Looks like it is at least a week for a doctor to say even. and that is only if she goes in to be tested that early.

kinda like rape/life threatening cases. we are wanting to set the rule based on the extreme.
 
#183
#183
Madscientistvol said:
Wanting to have sex and wanting it to result in children aren't the same thing. Otherwise you would only see abortions in cases of rape and not as just another form of birth control.
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lol. can you just turn off the actual reproducing aspects of your reproduction organs when you have sex? I mean I guess you can have the surgeries, but barring that sex is about making babies. whether you are successful or not doesn't play a part in why we do it at all.
 
#184
#184
LouderVol said:
lol. can you just turn off the actual reproducing aspects of your reproduction organs when you have sex? I mean I guess you can have the surgeries, but barring that sex is about making babies. whether you are successful or not doesn't play a part in why we do it at all.
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Not why I have sex, pal.
 
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#188
#188
ClearwaterVol said:
Not why I have sex, pal.
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we, homeslice, we. its a freaking biological imperative that drives us whether or not you "want" to have a child, its what your body is pushing you to do.

we dress it up, pretend to be evolved creatures; but it really boils down to a base drive to reproduce. your body encourages you to do by making the act, generally, pleasurable. your body does it so that it happens and that we continue as a species.
 
#189
#189
LouderVol said:
lol. can you just turn off the actual reproducing aspects of your reproduction organs when you have sex? I mean I guess you can have the surgeries, but barring that sex is about making babies. whether you are successful or not doesn't play a part in why we do it at all.
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Pretty sure that's the whole point of contraceptives. Also I think the LGBT community would likely disagree with your assertion.
 
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#190
#190
LouderVol said:
we, homeslice, we. its a freaking biological imperative that drives us whether or not you "want" to have a child, its what your body is pushing you to do.

we dress it up, pretend to be evolved creatures; but it really boils down to a base drive to reproduce. your body encourages you to do by making the act, generally, pleasurable. your body does it so that it happens and that we continue as a species.
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Our autonomy seems to override it in an increasingly sex positive culture.

Hell, if it really were just about reproduction, how could a sweaty palm easily substitute a moist craw in the act of batin'?
 
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#192
#192
BigO95 said:
I will take it a step further if you vote for pro-choice you have the blood of those aborted babies on your hands when those Devils get elected.
You are just as guilty for promoting such a heinous act.
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I'm staunchly pro life and I totally disagree with this. I learned my lesson in the early 2000s when we had a pro life president, a pro life majority in both houses of Congress, and a pro life majority on the SCOTUS. They had a chance to do something about abortion and did nothing. The right uses abortion and gay marriage the same way the left uses race baiting and fear mongering. It's a tool for them to stir up the masses and win votes. Nothing more. And nothing is ever going to be done to stop it.
 
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#193
#193
Madscientistvol said:
Pretty sure that's the whole point of contraceptives. Also I think the LGBT community would likely disagree with your assertion.
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that's still not turning off your reproducing bits. whats that every condom commercial says "No contraceptive is 100% effective". hmm, i wonder why they say that. When you have sex your body is trying to produce another human life.

the LGBT is a whole different argument. but the basic drives are still the same, unless you want to argue they are somehow less, or inherently different, from us.
 
#194
#194
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
I'm staunchly pro life and I totally disagree with this. I learned my lesson in the early 2000s when we had a pro life president, a pro life majority in both houses of Congress, and a pro life majority on the SCOTUS. They had a chance to do something about abortion and did nothing. The right uses abortion and gay marriage the same way the left uses race baiting and fear mongering. It's a tool for them to stir up the masses and win votes. Nothing more. And nothing is ever going to be done to stop it.
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I couldn't agree more with this. Spot on.
 
#197
#197
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
I'm staunchly pro life and I totally disagree with this. I learned my lesson in the early 2000s when we had a pro life president, a pro life majority in both houses of Congress, and a pro life majority on the SCOTUS. They had a chance to do something about abortion and did nothing. The right uses abortion and gay marriage the same way the left uses race baiting and fear mongering. It's a tool for them to stir up the masses and win votes. Nothing more. And nothing is ever going to be done to stop it.
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But to knowingly vote for someone you know is for it is a different story. All I can go by is their speeches and history.
 
#199
#199
LouderVol said:
that's still not turning off your reproducing bits. whats that every condom commercial says "No contraceptive is 100% effective". hmm, i wonder why they say that. When you have sex your body is trying to produce another human life.

the LGBT is a whole different argument. but the basic drives are still the same, unless you want to argue they are somehow less, or inherently different, from us.
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What my body wants and what my mind wants are often not the same. It's like using zero calorie sweeteners. My body wants sweets because of evolutionary drives to consume calorie rich foods in times of plenty so as to have stores in times of less. I use that sweet tooth evolution gave me to derive pleasure from sweetness without giving my body the calories it wants. Sex and sex drive are fundamental similar to this.

As for contraceptives not being 100%. They would love to be able to sell you a 100% effective contraceptive, but as of now we don't have one that is 100% effective without also being anywhere close to 100% reversible. That people want to have sex without necessarily having kids doesn't mean they don't ever want kids.
 
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#200
#200
DinkinFlicka said:
Our autonomy seems to override it in an increasingly sex positive culture.

Hell, if it really were just about reproduction, how could a sweaty palm easily substitute a moist craw in the act of batin'?
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neither of those situations changes what our body is doing. the end of your sweaty palm experience is probably remarkably similar to an end in a moist craw, except you end up crying alone.

And I would never justify something because of anyone's culture. our culture also likes Taylor's Swift's music, Michael "Explosion" Bay movies, and Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton as our two presidential candidates.
 
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