Abortion: Should Rowe vs Wade be Overturned?

Should Rowe vs Wade be overturned?

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#51
#51
allvol123 said:
Don't combine the two as if they are inseperable. Don't take one bad idea and use it as your defense as to why abortion is ok. I can't fix out of control government spending, that being said, it has nothing to do with whether or not I find killing defenseless people to be ok. You taking lessons from Strawgator? So since I do not choose to want criminals, can we just start full scale abortions on them immediately? They sure are costing us.
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It wasn't a strawman but an attempt to get past the mindless argument about when life begins that gets absolutely nowhere. I see from your post if must have been a poor attempt
 
#52
#52
KB5252 said:
If women were responsible and used birth control if they didn't want children and men took care of their children that number would be cut dramatically and we would have to pay for fewer kids.
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true except we're spending millions and millions and millions of dollars on faith-based abstinence programs instead of control and education. Those programs mean less than zero to a 16yo in the backseat.
 
#53
#53
utvolpj said:
It wasn't a strawman but an attempt to get past the mindless argument about when life begins that gets absolutely nowhere. I see from your post if must have been a poor attempt
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I'll not get deep into this with you. If you choose to argue from the standpoint as to when life begins, then I or most likely no one else will ever change your mind on that, just a simple matter of differing opinions. I think if you choose to draw in other elements like spending or something along those lines, your view loses quickly.
 
#54
#54
utvolpj said:
true except we're spending millions and millions and millions of dollars on faith-based abstinence programs instead of control and education. Those programs mean less than zero to a 16yo in the backseat.
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Are we not spending millions on control and education as well? Seems to me to be very short sided to put all your eggs in one basket. Control and education has been taught in school for years and does not look to have had much positive effect.
 
#55
#55
For me, this argument stops on one very simple point. Cost and convenience don't factor in because it is morallly wrong to kill a child. It no longer matters what other facets there are to the argument. I don't shoot the clerk at Kroger because it would be cheaper than paying for groceries.
 
#56
#56
I believe that a woman should have the right to choose. And by that I mean choose to keep her pants on. If that choice is forcefully taken away, she should have alternative options with abortion being one of them, but there would have to be charges brought against the man to get one. If she chooses to consent to sex, her options are regulated to adoption and motherhood. Abortion should not be a means of birth control simply because of irresponsibility on the part of two people. There are countless women who are unable to have children so why not allow them to adopt your unwanted infant? Just because you don't want it doesn't mean it wouldn't be the light of someone else's life. That child had zero say in its conception and no say in it's parents nor its termination. Education does very little to deter unwanted pregnancy. Kids today are exposed to sex and the pressure of it much earlier than they were when I was young. They are also given education on the matter much earlier. And most just snicker through the whole thing. You do the crime, you do the time. If you can't or won't take care of the child, put it up for adoption.
 
#57
#57
utvolpj said:
People are stupid and irresponsible in every facet of their lives, not just sex. It will never change no matter how many times it's brought up. I actually view the abortion of an unwanted child to be more responsible than having it and forcing me to pay for it.


100% disagree. Add in the number quoted earlier (since jesus-is-savior.com seems unbiased), 48 million, and tell me the strain on the US wouldn't be killing us right now.
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I'll happily pay for any child that gets the chance to live. This is the biggest issue that I disagree with the left on. Why does "the woman" have more rights than the child being aborted?
 
#58
#58
615 Vol said:
I'll happily pay for any child that gets the chance to live. This is the biggest issue that I disagree with the left on. Why does "the woman" have more rights than the child being aborted?
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I think this is the fallacy in your argument.
 
#59
#59
BigPapaVol said:
I think this is the fallacy in your argument.
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I guess that is the big debate of this issue. I personally believe that when construction is under way that it is a human life at that point. Maybe human life is a better word than child but I guess many of us have different views on when life begins.
 
#60
#60
utvolpj said:
true except we're spending millions and millions and millions of dollars on faith-based abstinence programs instead of control and education. Those programs mean less than zero to a 16yo in the backseat.
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you're exactly right. we should just ahead and encourage them to do it since they're going to do it anyways. don't spend the money on condoms or anything.

is that your attitude toward your kids?
 
#61
#61
615 Vol said:
I guess that is the big debate of this issue. I personally believe that when construction is under way that it is a human life at that point. Maybe human life is a better word than child but I guess many of us have different views on when life begins.
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but the fringe NOW crowd made the public debate about timelines and they won a stalemate at a very palatable date for them. The debate should be about conceived or not, but they made it about a date and ruled out the opinion of the father and have made the nearly arbitrary garbage that is Roe v. Wade almost permanent.

I think it's a totally fringe issue and don't care much either way, but it's pretty clear to me as a third party that the Pro Abortion crowd won the fight.
 
#62
#62
joevol320 said:
you're exactly right. we should just ahead and encourage them to do it since they're going to do it anyways. don't spend the money on condoms or anything.

is that your attitude toward your kids?
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Not sure you actually read what I wrote. When I choose to have kids I will teach them how to protect themselves and do things properly. Same thing I was taught by them and in school. I will absolutely not tell them it's "morally wrong" and never to do it.

Teaching abstinence to HS kids is about as useful as the war on drugs
 
#63
#63
utvolpj said:
Not sure you actually read what I wrote. When I choose to have kids I will teach them how to protect themselves and do things properly. Same thing I was taught by them and in school. I will absolutely not tell them it's "morally wrong" and never to do it.

Teaching abstinence to HS kids is about as useful as the war on drugs
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ah, you don't have kids. that's why you have the attitude you do. are you going to teach them it's morally wrong to steal? or lie? or cheat? because kids steal, cheat, and lie? or will you deem that morally wrong? where is that line you're going to draw.
 
#65
#65
utvolpj said:
is anyone here claiming they were aborted? All we're saying is the mom and dad should have the choice.

Who do you suggest pays for all those unwanted kids? Funny that most Repubs are against both abortions and the social programs that would be required to pay for all these unwanted children.
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I actually just read where it was recommended by doctors his mother have one but she decided not too... kinda crazy.
 
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#66
#66
allvol123 said:
joevol I bet your kids do not melt under pressure do they?
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i don't think so, he's two..

i'm don't think my kid is going to be perfect but i'm going to do my best to teach him morals.

i'm saying the whole attitude of "they're going to do it anyways" is just an excuse. if that's the case then, we should just allow everything to be legal. have sex with whomever, marry as many people as you want, don't worry about the age and don't worry about results of your actions.
 
#67
#67
joevol320 said:
ah, you don't have kids. that's why you have the attitude you do. are you going to teach them it's morally wrong to steal? or lie? or cheat? because kids steal, cheat, and lie? or will you deem that morally wrong? where is that line you're going to draw.
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wrong in my book is when your actions cause harm or infringe on the rights of another (as your examples clearly do). I will teach them the same things my parents taught me and I eventually turned out ok.
 
#68
#68
joevol320 said:
i don't think so, he's two..

i'm don't think my kid is going to be perfect but i'm going to do my best to teach him morals.

i'm saying the whole attitude of "they're going to do it anyways" is just an excuse. if that's the case then, we should just allow everything to be legal. have sex with whomever, marry as many people as you want, don't worry about the age and don't worry about results of your actions.
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It was a joke. You had typed "steel" instead of "steal".
 
#69
#69
utvolpj said:
wrong in my book is when your actions cause harm or infringe on the rights of another (as your examples clearly do). I will teach them the same things my parents taught me and I eventually turned out ok.
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That is where the issue gets difficult. We are given the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness by the constitution. Abortion denies babies those rights.


And to the last part all I can say is that is up for debate!:p
 
#70
#70
KB5252 said:
That is where the issue gets difficult. We are given the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness by the constitution. Abortion denies babies those rights.
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then doesn't 9mos involuntary confinement in the womb violate their right to liberty?

KB5252 said:
And to the last part all I can say is that is up for debate!:p
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and it's still a hot debate during the holidays when the whole family gathers. :)
 
#72
#72
615 Vol said:
I'll happily pay for any child that gets the chance to live. This is the biggest issue that I disagree with the left on. Why does "the woman" have more rights than the child being aborted?
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So what's stopping you? I will be happy to introduce you to some churches and charities to give your money to.
 
#73
#73
VolDad said:
So what's stopping you? I will be happy to introduce you to some churches and charities to give your money to.
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Please tell me how you KNOW anything may be stopping me. Who said anything was stopping me? I didn't.
 
#74
#74
615 Vol said:
I'll happily pay for any child that gets the chance to live. This is the biggest issue that I disagree with the left on. Why does "the woman" have more rights than the child being aborted?
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615 Vol said:
Please tell me how you KNOW anything may be stopping me. Who said anything was stopping me? I didn't.
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If nothing is stopping you and you said that you will happily pay..., then why aren’t you?

Especially since it will make you happy.
 
#75
#75
VolDad said:
If nothing is stopping you and you said that you will happily pay..., then why aren’t you?

Especially since it will make you happy.
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I didn't know you were overseeing my finances. How do you know what i do with my money? How do you know when or if I give to charity, when or if I give to church, when or if I give to events such as Katrina? You seem to be 100 percent certain that I don't give any money by asking why i don't, how do you know?
 
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