Abortion: Should Rowe vs Wade be Overturned?

[VolDad]

I didn't know you were overseeing my finances. How do you know what i do with my money? How do you know when or if I give to charity, when or if I give to church, when or if I give to events such as Katrina? You seem to be 100 percent certain that I don't give any money by asking why i don't, how do you know?

I obviously touched a nerve. I made my assumption because you said, “I will happily pay for any child that gets the chance to live. ….” and not, “I am happily paying….”. I said nothing about your finances, charity, church, or Katrina.

I am just trying to figure out what you meant when you said that you will happily pay….

If you will happily pay…..then I truly do know a great organization that supports women, who were considering abortion, through their pregnancy and subsequent adoption. They could use your financial support and I would be happy to put you in touch.

Or, I suspect you meant, I will happily support the government taking your money and the money from every other tax paying citizen to pay for unwanted children.

Which is it?

 

[Georgef]

Some one stated I was basis...for i pasted a web that was something like "jesus.com".....remember Him...that terrible person....well here are several more websites for you to review....remember if you have been Aborted....you have NO right to reply!

Statistics
large amount of blood clots after an abortion, is something >> Medical Questions, Weight Loss, Pregnancy, Drugs, Health Insurance
No amount of hand-wringing can bring dead babies back after an abortion - On Line Opinion - 22/9/2004
New Health Plan, Old Abortion Fight - New York Times
Life: Scary Abortion Article
The Truth about Abortion

 

[Georgef]

To utvolph....."infringe on the rights of another" does that include the "fetus" ? Our future sons and daughters.

 

[Georgef]

I just came across the Latin definition for Fetus...its is:
"Little One" or "Offspring" interesting.

 

[VolByBirth]

That is where the issue gets difficult. We are given the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness by the constitution. Abortion denies babies those rights.


And to the last part all I can say is that is up for debate!

This is really an interesting statement. You have to realize this opens up some potential issues if this is the platform for Pro-Life.

First, you are asking for life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for unborn children when many minorities didn't get those rights until about 40-50 years ago. It only took them well over a century to secure those rights.

However, what about gays and gay marriage? My guess is many Republicans want one and not the other.... Do you not believe that statement should constitute both and not one or the other?

 

[VolByBirth]

I just came across the Latin definition for Fetus...its is:
"Little One" or "Offspring" interesting.

And we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway. I wouldn't use word choice as a basis for argument.

 

[Georgef]

"And we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway. I wouldn't use word choice as a basis for argument."

yes but its the word "abortion" is acceptable to you I see....was it accepted to your mother? I think not.

 

[Georgef]

"This is really an interesting statement. You have to realize this opens up some potential issues if this is the platform for Pro-Life.

First, you are asking for life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for unborn children when many minorities didn't get those rights until about 40-50 years ago. It only took them well over a century to secure those rights.

However, what about gays and gay marriage? My guess is many Republicans want one and not the other.... Do you not believe that statement should constitute both and not one or the other?"

You mean you justify the abortion of our sons and daugthers by the way the white man treated the black man? Does one or the other...EVER include the fetus...which is another word for our future sons and daughters?

 

[VolByBirth]

"And we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway. I wouldn't use word choice as a basis for argument."

yes but its the word "abortion" is acceptable to you I see....was it accepted to your mother? I think not.

I have no problem with you being Pro-Life and I'm not here to convince you one way or the other. My comment was only pertaining to the fact that the Latin root of a word isn't really a good "stance".

And the definition of abortion (per Miriam-Webster) can include the spontaneous expulsion of a fetus in the first 12 weeks (often mistaken for a miscarriage -- 12-28 weeks). So, yes, my mom had an abortion (by definition) as she lost two children in the first 12 weeks.

All I'm saying is, there are far better arguments for Pro-Life than the semantics game we are playing.

 

[VolByBirth]

"This is really an interesting statement. You have to realize this opens up some potential issues if this is the platform for Pro-Life.

First, you are asking for life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for unborn children when many minorities didn't get those rights until about 40-50 years ago. It only took them well over a century to secure those rights.

However, what about gays and gay marriage? My guess is many Republicans want one and not the other.... Do you not believe that statement should constitute both and not one or the other?"

You mean you justify the abortion of our sons and daugthers by the way the white man treated the black man? Does one or the other...EVER include the fetus...which is another word for our future sons and daughters?

I didn't justify anything -- I didn't take any stand. All I said was, the stance of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" shouldn't be chosen to apply in only the cases someone wants. I actually thought his post was hugely interesting and hoped to provoke a discussion about whether using that would really work politically.

And as for my comments about Civil Rights -- it was more stating that it might take a long-time using this stance to get the laws changed for abortion -- look at all the time and hardship for blacks.

 

[Georgef]

Sure and I lost a 3 year old grandchildren to something called SJS.....want to google it? put in "sjs kiss"....we wanted this child so much...and i hear of 1,300,000 abortions a year?......what have we come to....what is the word for that.....I cant type it..it bothers me.

 

[VolByBirth]

Sure and I lost a 3 year old grandchildren to something called SJS.....want to google it? put in "sjs kiss"....we wanted this child so much...and i hear of 1,300,000 abortions a year?......what have we come to....what is the word for that.....I cant type it..it bothers me.

I'm very sorry for your loss. At the same time, you have to realize people have different views from you on this. You have no proof that your decision is the right one, just as I don't either. We have a belief system, we argue for it, and sometimes....just sometimes....people even change their minds. I'm just asking for strong support that makes me think through things.

In the same vein as I don't think of abortion as murder (as many others do), there are most likely certain beliefs you or other Pro-Lifers hold that I find morally wrong. People draw different lines in the sand on different issues which is always interesting --- because sometimes if you take a step back you'll see people's beliefs are often contradictory (I'm no saint on this one either).

 

[JTrainDavis]

I have a very hard time inside considering this topic, and don't consider it as an issue, because of the hard feelings it draws from both sides of the debate, and its general minisculity in the grand scheme of things.

It is only an election issue because those that feel very strongly for one side or the other are extremely dedicated to such, making it a hot issue in which a good percentage of the electorate feels strongly about, be it for or against.

I am personally against it, but i do not feel that someone who chooses to do so is an awful person, either. I feel it is a choice between a woman and her conscience, not one for government regulation.

 

[Georgef]

I reconize we will disagree...and in this country we have ever right to....and if you read my message i am sure you will see fustration....I personally believe (and again this is only my opinion) that the fitus...the future(?) child has no voice...so we the borned ones....not aborted must speak for them....think for one second. You say "pro-choice" but give them none!....Its it so bad to speak for the unborn the fetus...our sons...our daughters?

 

[VolByBirth]

I have a very hard time inside considering this topic, and don't consider it as an issue, because of the hard feelings it draws from both sides of the debate, and its general minisculity in the grand scheme of things.

It is only an election issue because those that feel very strongly for one side or the other are extremely dedicated to such, making it a hot issue in which a good percentage of the electorate feels strongly about, be it for or against.

I am personally against it, but i do not feel that someone who chooses to do so is an awful person, either. I feel it is a choice between a woman and her conscience, not one for government regulation.

Agree completely on the gov't intervention part.

 

[Headed For Home]

I have a very hard time inside considering this topic, and don't consider it as an issue, because of the hard feelings it draws from both sides of the debate, and its general minisculity in the grand scheme of things.

It is only an election issue because those that feel very strongly for one side or the other are extremely dedicated to such, making it a hot issue in which a good percentage of the electorate feels strongly about, be it for or against.

I am personally against it, but i do not feel that someone who chooses to do so is an awful person, either. I feel it is a choice between a woman and her conscience, not one for government regulation.

You are right when you say that a woman who choses abortion is not a horrible person. She is no worse than any of the rest of us who make mistakes. You are wrong, however, when you say that this is not an issue for government regulation.

This is exactly the type of issue that needs to be regulated by the government. It is absolutely the government's responsibility to see that the innocents in our society are protected. This is the last area that I can think of where the innocent has no right to protection. We protect the innocents from thieves and killers, drunk drivers, con men and even bullies. Yet in this circumstance, there is none.

Roe v. Wade should be overturned and abortion made illegal. We should care as much when a child dies due to abortion as we do when a child is killed by a drunk driver.

I do not mean to be offensive with my post. I just don't see this particular topic in shades of gray.

 

[JTrainDavis]

I just can't see abortion as murder, in a real-world sense. many variances of Christianity consider conception to be the formation of a human life, which i can respect.

However, i cannot see abortion as murder when a fetus has no self functioning organs, or any semblance of brain to speak of.

I will cast a general cloud here, forgive me if you don't fall under it, but most of those who vote based on a candidates stance on abortion are evangelical Christians, and they are entitled to that opinion....

I'm just a proponent of Federal versus State regulation...if abortion were to fall anywhere in the spectrum of law, it would be with the state, but i feel it is an individual decision.

Morality and legality are seperate issues, and i don't feel it's the government's job to define them

 

[VolByBirth]

You are right when you say that a woman who choses abortion is not a horrible person. She is no worse than any of the rest of us who make mistakes. You are wrong, however, when you say that this is not an issue for government regulation.

This is exactly the type of issue that needs to be regulated by the government. It is absolutely the government's responsibility to see that the innocents in our society are protected. This is the last area that I can think of where the innocent has no right to protection. We protect the innocents from thieves and killers, drunk drivers, con men and even bullies. Yet in this circumstance, there is none.

Roe v. Wade should be overturned and abortion made illegal. We should care as much when a child dies due to abortion as we do when a child is killed by a drunk driver.

I do not mean to be offensive with my post. I just don't see this particular topic in shades of gray.

If the debate were clear that a fetus under 12 weeks of age was "a person" then your argument would stand. There is no concrete evidence and this is where the argument lies.

 

[VolDad]

I reconize we will disagree...and in this country we have ever right to....and if you read my message i am sure you will see fustration....I personally believe (and again this is only my opinion) that the fitus...the future(?) child has no voice...so we the borned ones....not aborted must speak for them....think for one second. You say "pro-choice" but give them none!....Its it so bad to speak for the unborn the fetus...our sons...our daughters?

So whose voice should carry more weight; yours or the voice of the girl/woman who must carry the fetus for 9 1/2 months?

Doesn't sound like much of a sacrifice on your part.

 

[Georgef]

Wrong...the development of the brain starts in the first 24 hours!.....We have "Pro Choice" and Pro Life"...but we do not have "Pro Fetus".....who will start it...the "unborn"?.....no you and I must speak out for our sons and daughters. We ...the average person whether he/she realizes it..think we are god. If you do not believe in a Creator greater than ourselves...than you consider yourself as your own god. Some day...just stop...get in a private area and think ....how great our bodies are designed...from our ears to our heart to the fingernails....far beyond what scientists can explain....than think...who created this..me you....than your opinion on God's fetus will change....call me a Jesus nut...its ok....its the best thing in life i have ever been called...God Bless

 

[MG1968]

Wrong...the development of the brain starts in the first 24 hours!.....We have "Pro Choice" and Pro Life"...but we do not have "Pro Fetus".....who will start it...the "unborn"?.....no you and I must speak out for our sons and daughters. We ...the average person whether he/she realizes it..think we are god. If you do not believe in a Creator greater than ourselves...than you consider yourself as your own god. Some day...just stop...get in a private area and think ....how great our bodies are designed...from our ears to our heart to the fingernails....far beyond what scientists can explain....than think...who created this..me you....than your opinion on God's fetus will change....call me a Jesus nut...its ok....its the best thing in life i have ever been called...God Bless

which is worse?

the young woman who aborts a pregnancy that's the result of a rape or incest.

or,

a pro-life activist, claiming to be doing "God's will", who executes a doctor who performs abortions then firebombs the doctor's medical office, thus endangering the lives of several other people.

 

[VolDad]

So whose voice should carry more weight; yours or the voice of the girl/woman who must carry the fetus for 9 1/2 months?
Doesn't sound like much of a sacrifice on your part.

Wrong...the development of the brain starts in the first 24 hours!.....We have "Pro Choice" and Pro Life"...but we do not have "Pro Fetus".....who will start it...the "unborn"?.....no you and I must speak out for our sons and daughters. We ...the average person whether he/she realizes it..think we are god. If you do not believe in a Creator greater than ourselves...than you consider yourself as your own god. Some day...just stop...get in a private area and think ....how great our bodies are designed...from our ears to our heart to the fingernails....far beyond what scientists can explain....than think...who created this..me you....than your opinion on God's fetus will change....call me a Jesus nut...its ok....its the best thing in life i have ever been called...God Bless

All those words and still no answer to a simple question.

 

[KLayneUT8]

I feel that it is wrong...but i also feel that me bein a male that it is not my decision....it ultimately is the female decision she knows what is best for her...if the woman can handle it then i can handle it....

 

[Georgef]

Voldad..."still no answer?"......serious?

 

[VolDad]

So whose voice should carry more weight; yours or the voice of the girl/woman who must carry the fetus for 9 1/2 months?

Doesn't sound like much of a sacrifice on your part.

Wrong...the development of the brain starts in the first 24 hours!.....We have "Pro Choice" and Pro Life"...but we do not have "Pro Fetus".....who will start it...the "unborn"?.....no you and I must speak out for our sons and daughters. We ...the average person whether he/she realizes it..think we are god. If you do not believe in a Creator greater than ourselves...than you consider yourself as your own god. Some day...just stop...get in a private area and think ....how great our bodies are designed...from our ears to our heart to the fingernails....far beyond what scientists can explain....than think...who created this..me you....than your opinion on God's fetus will change....call me a Jesus nut...its ok....its the best thing in life i have ever been called...God Bless

I think that it is great that you speak out but nothing you said explained why your voice should carry more weight than the girl/woman who must carry the fetus for 9 1/2 months?