About to hit the fan at UNC...basketball and football academic fraud.

#126
#126
RDU VOL#14 said:
I used to think that, but now I'm starting to wonder that now that they've won a title during this whole "investigation" if some people like the Maryland president are going to be vocal about their displeasure. I think if more people like him are vocal it will put pressure on the NCAA.
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it's been 5 years. it's still on going. they've done nothing.

something tells me that if it was going to happen, it would have by now.
 
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#128
#128
The NCAA doesn't want to do what did to USC stripping national titles. They if ever do anything will punish future kids who had nothing to do with it. Like post season ban in 2027.
 
#129
#129
Can't believe I'm saying this, but a commenter in an article about the Maryland President's comments actually had an angle to this I hadn't considered.

The sham classes were available to all students at UNC, not just student-athletes. Whether it was intentionally designed that way or not, it created a loophole so that the classes cannot be considered "impermissible academic benefits" by the NCAA since they were open to all students. This guy's point was that the investigation is taking forever and they keep sending updated NOAs because they have no jurisdiction and are grasping at straws trying to find anything that directly implicates one of the athletic teams. Roy Williams and the men's basketball program are barely even mentioned in the documents. I'm almost positive he was aware that something like this was going on, but it seems like there is a lot of plausible deniability there.

I've always thought this case sounded more like something the University could lose its accreditation for (which will also never happen) rather than the various athletic programs getting nailed by the NCAA.
 
#130
#130
05_never_again said:
Can't believe I'm saying this, but a commenter in an article about the Maryland President's comments actually had an angle to this I hadn't considered.

The sham classes were available to all students at UNC, not just student-athletes. Whether it was intentionally designed that way or not, it created a loophole so that the classes cannot be considered "impermissible academic benefits" by the NCAA since they were open to all students. This guy's point was that the investigation is taking forever and they keep sending updated NOAs because they have no jurisdiction and are grasping at straws trying to find anything that directly implicates one of the athletic teams. Roy Williams and the men's basketball program are barely even mentioned in the documents. I'm almost positive he was aware that something like this was going on, but it seems like there is a lot of plausible deniability there.

I've always thought this case sounded more like something the University could lose its accreditation for (which will also never happen) rather than the various athletic programs getting nailed by the NCAA.
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brilliant!
 
#131
#131
jakez4ut said:
brilliant!
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Sarcasm? It sound like it was dumb enough to actually work and be used as an argument to me.

UNC athletics could claim that there have been academic problems at the school and inevitably some student-athletes wound up in those classes.
 
#132
#132
It would be funny to find out how much they have paid to have athletes tutored for those classes.
 
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#133
#133
I do not condone sham classes, but this kind of stuff as been going on at major colleges for decades--or at least it used to be very common. It is how unintelligent football and basketball players stayed eligible, as we all know. I'm sure that, at one time, a lot of colleges offered a class on African-American studies as well--maybe even UT. We'll see how it all shakes out. A lot of athletes get "help"--that's why all big school have academic centers for tutoring and counseling, etc.--the only question is, how much?
 
#134
#134
I'm just going by memory (which is a dangerous thing), but from what I recall the classes were filled predominantly with athletes (over 90%) and they didn't appear for general enrollment to all college students until a day before final enrollment had to be completed. However, somehow there would always be a large number of athletes already enrolled in those classes.

So yes... somehow the classes were made available for open enrollment, but it wasn't until the athletes were already enrolled in the classes.
 
#135
#135
armchair said:
I do not condone sham classes, but this kind of stuff as been going on at major colleges for decades--or at least it used to be very common. It is how unintelligent football and basketball players stayed eligible, as we all know. I'm sure that, at one time, a lot of colleges offered a class on African-American studies as well--maybe even UT. We'll see how it all shakes out. A lot of athletes get "help"--that's why all big school have academic centers for tutoring and counseling, etc.--the only question is, how much?
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What is common: the individual athletes getting "help" (i.e., they are enrolled in a legitimate class but get grades inflated, tests taken for them, they are allowed to cheat, etc.) or an entire academic department is a sham? I absolutely buy the former being common. Not sure about the latter.

I'd be surprised if the practice of having entire academic disciplines where the point is to not do any work is common, especially at a school like UNC where they have both an academic and an athletic reputation to uphold.

"African-American Studies" or something similar is a major that is offered at all sorts of universities. Whatever my personal opinion on the practical value of such a degree is, the program isn't a "sham" in and of itself if it requires people to do work and do it well to receive a good grade. Theoretically any major could be a sham if none of the students have to do anything to receive a good grade.
 
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#136
#136
I always enjoyed this masterpiece that received an A for a former football player
 

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#137
#137
05_never_again said:
Can't believe I'm saying this, but a commenter in an article about the Maryland President's comments actually had an angle to this I hadn't considered.

The sham classes were available to all students at UNC, not just student-athletes. Whether it was intentionally designed that way or not, it created a loophole so that the classes cannot be considered "impermissible academic benefits" by the NCAA since they were open to all students. This guy's point was that the investigation is taking forever and they keep sending updated NOAs because they have no jurisdiction and are grasping at straws trying to find anything that directly implicates one of the athletic teams. Roy Williams and the men's basketball program are barely even mentioned in the documents. I'm almost positive he was aware that something like this was going on, but it seems like there is a lot of plausible deniability there.

I've always thought this case sounded more like something the University could lose its accreditation for (which will also never happen) rather than the various athletic programs getting nailed by the NCAA.
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Still can effect players eligibility right? as not qualifying to compete to conference gpa. They should get incompletes I'm assuming. I know Jon Higgins was ineligible as he took on too big a load and he didn't qualify for his final semester. I'd assume fake classes would make a player short of his required eligibility.
 
#138
#138
05_never_again said:
Sarcasm? It sound like it was dumb enough to actually work and be used as an argument to me.

UNC athletics could claim that there have been academic problems at the school and inevitably some student-athletes wound up in those classes.
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Yes, but in a good way. I hadn't connected those dots either... good use of a loophole
 
#139
#139
armchair said:
I do not condone sham classes, but this kind of stuff as been going on at major colleges for decades--or at least it used to be very common. It is how unintelligent football and basketball players stayed eligible, as we all know. I'm sure that, at one time, a lot of colleges offered a class on African-American studies as well--maybe even UT. We'll see how it all shakes out. A lot of athletes get "help"--that's why all big school have academic centers for tutoring and counseling, etc.--the only question is, how much?
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Do you have proof of this?
 
#140
#140
I took an AA Stidies class at UT. It was a real class and the football players showed up.
 
#142
#142
DeepSpringsVol said:
Still can effect players eligibility right? as not qualifying to compete to conference gpa. They should get incompletes I'm assuming. I know Jon Higgins was ineligible as he took on too big a load and he didn't qualify for his final semester. I'd assume fake classes would make a player short of his required eligibility.
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Yeah I suppose they would be ineligible, which would presumably lead to vacated wins, but if the "they were available to all students" argument holds up they might actually escape NCAA sanctions.
 
#143
#143
Dexter Manley GRADUATED from Oklahoma State whilst illiterate. Bear Bryant was functionally illiterate out of high school and graduated from Bama. This ain't new! (Intentional) :)
 
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#145
#145
butchna said:
Dexter Manley GRADUATED from Oklahoma whilst illiterate. Bear Bryant was functionally illiterate out of high school and graduated from Bama. This ain't new! (Intentional) :)
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Oklahoma State

Forest Gump graduated from Bama (although he never went full retard).
 
#146
#146
BowlBrother85 said:
Oklahoma State

Forest Gump graduated from Bama (although he never went full retard).
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Knew his alma mater...my bad. Bear Bryant's bio is a good read, Bama had a huge Arkansas pipeline in the 30's and they didn't come to play school. Bryant spent his reading time on helping maintain the farm.
 
#147
#147
butchna said:
Dexter Manley GRADUATED from Oklahoma whilst illiterate. Bear Bryant was functionally illiterate out of high school and graduated from Bama. This ain't new! (Intentional) :)
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I have a picture of a young Bear Bryant back in his college days.

17ac484aa3f8cd965dcae16bb7930a8bd0fceefdad8cea8dec35086fe3dd467d.jpg
 
#150
#150
Every school in America needs to create fake classes for athletes and funnel a few regular students into them to give them cover.
 
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