'21 AL WDE Dylan Brooks (Auburn transfer)

Ha, we really have become moral victory U. Half of us aren’t even worried about winning, we’re just excited that we MAY score lots of points.🤦‍♂️
GBO!!
That's BS. But after what we've seen for the last 4 years... some offensive sign of life would inspire a little bit of hope. I wouldn't mind winning with 3 yards and a cloud of dust... but no one is winning that way right now.

Having an O that scores points doesn't guarantee wins but does mean you have a chance to win.
 
That's BS. But after what we've seen for the last 4 years... some offensive sign of life would inspire a little bit of hope. I wouldn't mind winning with 3 yards and a cloud of dust... but no one is winning that way right now.

Having an O that scores points doesn't guarantee wins but does mean you have a chance to win.
Scoring and having Neyland rocking ....their offense can't hear and our defense flying around = win.
 
That's BS. But after what we've seen for the last 4 years... some offensive sign of life would inspire a little bit of hope. I wouldn't mind winning with 3 yards and a cloud of dust... but no one is winning that way right now.

Having an O that scores points doesn't guarantee wins but does mean you have a chance to win.
My post is BS? It’s actually spot on tbh. Don’t think I’m on here bashing our new coach, because I’m not. Danny White is the first AD to give me hope, in a long time. A lot will not want to hear this, but Heupel is probably exactly what this program needs right now! We don’t need flash, we don’t need lip service, we need results, and his offense has potential to give results. But we have to be patient and give him time. The next 2-4 years have potential to be really tough. I’m not knocking our coach, I admire the guy because he’s walking right into a complete $hit show with a hornets nest right in the middle of it. But my point was, the sad state of our program. We aren’t talking wins, we’re talking about scoring points. Yes, points can lead to wins, but...
GBO!!
 
My post is BS? It’s actually spot on tbh. Don’t think I’m on here bashing our new coach, because I’m not. Danny White is the first AD to give me hope, in a long time. A lot will not want to hear this, but Heupel is probably exactly what this program needs right now! We don’t need flash, we don’t need lip service, we need results, and his offense has potential to give results. But we have to be patient and give him time. The next 2-4 years have potential to be really tough. I’m not knocking our coach, I admire the guy because he’s walking right into a complete $hit show with a hornets nest right in the middle of it. But my point was, the sad state of our program. We aren’t talking wins, we’re talking about scoring points. Yes, points can lead to wins, but...
GBO!!
I was speaking to your point about "moral victories".... which is a bunk idea anyway. A team that loses 6 games by an average of 5 points is closer to playing high level football than a team that lost 3 and was blown out by 25 points by the top teams. Those aren't "moral victories". Close losses are an indication that your team is competitive and close to winning. A close, competitive loss is a valid reason to believe you have a good team and to have hope that you can win.... it isn't a "moral victory". It is still a loss. Just a better loss than being embarrassed.

It matters A LOT that UT's losses have not been competitive for the last 4 years or so. No one wants to keep losing a bunch of close games... but it is better to be close than to be beaten like an FCS team every time you play a decent opponent... and some not so decent opponents.
 
I was speaking to your point about "moral victories".... which is a bunk idea anyway. A team that loses 6 games by an average of 5 points is closer to playing high level football than a team that lost 3 and was blown out by 25 points by the top teams. Those aren't "moral victories". Close losses are an indication that your team is competitive and close to winning. A close, competitive loss is a valid reason to believe you have a good team and to have hope that you can win.... it isn't a "moral victory". It is still a loss. Just a better loss than being embarrassed.

It matters A LOT that UT's losses have not been competitive for the last 4 years or so. No one wants to keep losing a bunch of close games... but it is better to be close than to be beaten like an FCS team every time you play a decent opponent... and some not so decent opponents.

This seems very logical and well thought-out. So you are saying that losing a game that was well played and came down to the final possession might, MIGHT actually indicate your team is going to be in better position to win their next game compared to playing terrible and losing by 3 scores. Hmmm.....I think it is easier to just call these "moral victories" and keep crying. Yeah, I like that better.
 
I was speaking to your point about "moral victories".... which is a bunk idea anyway. A team that loses 6 games by an average of 5 points is closer to playing high level football than a team that lost 3 and was blown out by 25 points by the top teams. Those aren't "moral victories". Close losses are an indication that your team is competitive and close to winning. A close, competitive loss is a valid reason to believe you have a good team and to have hope that you can win.... it isn't a "moral victory". It is still a loss. Just a better loss than being embarrassed.

It matters A LOT that UT's losses have not been competitive for the last 4 years or so. No one wants to keep losing a bunch of close games... but it is better to be close than to be beaten like an FCS team every time you play a decent opponent... and some not so decent opponents.
i hear ya. but what you're describing is the definition of a moral victory...you lose, but you see positives, potential for improvement....

anyway, call it whatever you want, i think everyone agrees on the principle being discussed, that being....if you're competitive, you can see you're giving yourself a chance to win. you got no shot if you're getting beaten by double digits every time out.
 
i hear ya. but what you're describing is the definition of a moral victory...you lose, but you see positives, potential for improvement....

anyway, call it whatever you want, i think everyone agrees on the principle being discussed, that being....if you're competitive, you can see you're giving yourself a chance to win. you got no shot if you're getting beaten by double digits every time out.
I would disagree because what makes a difference is your perspective on what you get out of a "close loss" or vice-versa. If your perspective is "Hey, we were close and moving forward that is good enough for me. I just want to be close and not lose by a lot." That is a moral victory. If you are trying to determine future impact and look at how the results will potentially lead to future wins or losses then perspective is important.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ulysees E. McGill
I was speaking to your point about "moral victories".... which is a bunk idea anyway. A team that loses 6 games by an average of 5 points is closer to playing high level football than a team that lost 3 and was blown out by 25 points by the top teams. Those aren't "moral victories". Close losses are an indication that your team is competitive and close to winning. A close, competitive loss is a valid reason to believe you have a good team and to have hope that you can win.... it isn't a "moral victory". It is still a loss. Just a better loss than being embarrassed.

It matters A LOT that UT's losses have not been competitive for the last 4 years or so. No one wants to keep losing a bunch of close games... but it is better to be close than to be beaten like an FCS team every time you play a decent opponent... and some not so decent opponents.
I agree with everything you have posted. Again, the sad state of our program is my point. We have gone from wins and losses to hoping we can score points and hang with the big boys. How did we let it get to this point? It really makes me sad and mad at the same time.
GBO!!
 
I agree with everything you have posted. Again, the sad state of our program is my point. We have gone from wins and losses to hoping we can score points and hang with the big boys. How did we let it get to this point? It really makes me sad and mad at the same time.
GBO!!
Tolerance got us here. Tolerance for sub-par performance from HC's and assistants. For example, Jones should have been fired after year 3. Nine wins is a "good" result but not for a roster and team that could have easily won 11 and the East. But he was "tolerated" because who fires a coach that wins 9 games? Well, the next two years taught us. He squandered one of UT's most talented rosters then was exposed in that last year.

It started after the NC really. Fulmer in a big way was more fortunate than good. Cut was a strong personality and great OC. He appears to have been the "oil" that made the engine work because when he left... it stopped working. When he returned, it started working... when he left again... it stopped working again.

Fulmer tolerated sub-par assistants and undisciplined players too much. Performance declined and wins eventually followed. The game evolved and Fulmer stubbornly refused to change with it. Recruiting slipped overall but particularly on both sides of the line of scrimmage. By the time Kiffin took over, both the DL and OL were patchwork. Fulmer was rightly fired.

Kiffin did his thing which probably would have set UT back even if a good replacement had been hired. He's pond scum and was disloyal to a school that gave him a big time shot after his Raiders embarrassment. The "blessing" was that his utter disrespect for UT's program and traditions were leading him to cheat in recruiting and try to make the Vols the UT Trojans East.

Dooley was hired with his pedigree. I still have sympathy for him in a way. He was a mediocre coach hired into a job that needed a superstar. He was broken within two years. Then he got stupid with Sunseri when there was actually a chance he could have saved himself with the O he had in that last year. Even a moderately "bad" D would have yielded 7 or 8 wins.

The Jones hire was probably the worst decision to this point (only to be worsted by the Pruitt hire). Even worse than promoting Sanders. Jones was more used car salesman than football coach. But he thought of himself as a genius who was going to revolutionize football in the SEC with his quick 285 lb OL's. He was saved from immediate failure by a convergence of some great instate homer recruits and legacy recruits. Those players helped him put together some very talented classes. He was never a good coach. He was never an honest guy or good manager/leader of the players. He underperformed the roster talent every year... and badly in Dobbs' last year. If he had been fired after year 3... then next coach would have been set up great. He wasn't. By the time he was fired the roster was as bad or worse than when he arrived.

Pruitt is a good teacher of the game. He's probably a pretty good DC. But what he did well to perform in those jobs didn't translate at all to being a HC. He was a disaster and doesn't have the ability to pull all the parts together. To make it worse, he shared Fulmer's "old school" philosophy of play and was determined to make it work in an era of CFB where high octane offenses are required. He completely mismanaged the QB position from the day he arrived. Both he and Jones sacrificed their jobs believing that what JG apparently does in practice would have to translate to games... and it never did. Ultimately, either the job was just way too big for Pruitt... or he was complicit in recruiting violations.

So... here we are. We have a roster with talent but also holes. We have a looming NCAA problem. We have a job too high risk for guys who see their star rising immediately. Essentially we are back where we were when Dooley was hired. He too was thought to be an up and comer that UT hired maybe 3 years before he really hit his peak.

Hopefully it works this time.
 
Last edited:
Tolerance got us here. Tolerance for sub-par performance from HC's and assistants. For example, Jones should have been fired after year 3. Nine wins is a "good" result but not for a roster and team that could have easily won 11 and the East. But he was "tolerated" because who fires a coach that wins 9 games? Well, the next two years taught us. He squandered one of UT's most talented rosters then was exposed in that last year.

It started after the NC really. Fulmer in a big way was more fortunate than good. Cut was a strong personality and great OC. He appears to have been the "oil" that made the engine work because when he left... it stopped working. When he returned, it started working... when he left again... it stopped working again.

Fulmer tolerated sub-par assistants and undisciplined players too much. Performance declined and wins eventually followed. The game evolved and Fulmer stubbornly refused to change with it. Recruiting slipped overall but particularly on both sides of the line of scrimmage. By the time Kiffin took over, both the DL and OL were patchwork. Fulmer was rightly fired.

Kiffin did his thing which probably would have set UT back even if a good replacement had been hired. He's pond scum and was disloyal to a school that gave him a big time shot after his Raiders embarrassment. The "blessing" was that his utter disrespect for UT's program and traditions were leading him to cheat in recruiting and try to make the Vols the UT Trojans East.

Dooley was hired with his pedigree. I still have sympathy for him in a way. He was a mediocre coach hired into a job that needed a superstar. He was broken within two years. Then he got stupid with Sunseri when there was actually a chance he could have saved himself with the O he had in that last year. Even a moderately "bad" D would have yielded 7 or 8 wins.

The Jones hire was probably the worst decision to this point (only to be worsted by the Pruitt hire). Even worse than promoting Sanders. Jones was more used car salesman than football coach. But he thought of himself as a genius who was going to revolutionize football in the SEC with his quick 285 lb OL's. He was saved from immediate failure by a convergence of some great instate homer recruits and legacy recruits. Those players helped him put together some very talented classes. He was never a good coach. He was never an honest guy or good manager/leader of the players. He underperformed the roster talent every year... and badly in Dobbs' last year. If he had been fired after year 3... then next coach would have been set up great. He wasn't. By the time he was fired the roster was as bad or worse than when he arrived.

Pruitt is a good teacher of the game. He's probably a pretty good DC. But what he did well to perform in those jobs didn't translate at all to being a HC. He was a disaster and doesn't have the ability to pull all the parts together. To make it worse, he shared Fulmer's "old school" philosophy of play and was determined to make it work in an era of CFB where high octane offenses are required. He completely mismanaged the QB position from the day he arrived. Both he and Jones sacrificed their jobs believing that what JG apparently does in practice would have to translate to games... and it never did. Ultimately, either the job was just way too big for Pruitt... or he was complicit in recruiting violations.

So... here we are. We have a roster with talent but also holes. We have a looming NCAA problem. We have a job too high risk for guys who see their star rising immediately. Essentially we are back where we were when Dooley was hired. He too was thought to be an up and comer that UT hired maybe 3 years before he really hit his peak.

Hopefully it works this time.
It was so unbelievably dumb to not fire Botch after 2016. I dont know how they thought it was a good idea to bring him back after that. That was by far the dumbest thing our administration did.

It at least seems like Heupel has a much better shot than Dooley. Way more proven. But we can't survive those terrible defenses again.

I'm also like...can we really be bad forever? I mean its gotta end at some point? Maybe we don't win a title again or an SEC championship, but I feel like we are bound to get out of the cellar. Its really unusual whats going on with us.

Yeah its happening at Nebraska, but the modern age is partly responsible for that and we don't have that kind of geographical disadvantage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sjt18
I was speaking to your point about "moral victories".... which is a bunk idea anyway. A team that loses 6 games by an average of 5 points is closer to playing high level football than a team that lost 3 and was blown out by 25 points by the top teams. Those aren't "moral victories". Close losses are an indication that your team is competitive and close to winning. A close, competitive loss is a valid reason to believe you have a good team and to have hope that you can win.... it isn't a "moral victory". It is still a loss. Just a better loss than being embarrassed.

It matters A LOT that UT's losses have not been competitive for the last 4 years or so. No one wants to keep losing a bunch of close games... but it is better to be close than to be beaten like an FCS team every time you play a decent opponent... and some not so decent opponents.

Well said. Too many peep on VN think themselves admirable by saying something negative. They are particularly fond of cute slogans.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sjt18
It was so unbelievably dumb to not fire Botch after 2016. I dont know how they thought it was a good idea to bring him back after that. That was by far the dumbest thing our administration did.

It at least seems like Heupel has a much better shot than Dooley. Way more proven. But we can't survive those terrible defenses again.

I'm also like...can we really be bad forever? I mean its gotta end at some point? Maybe we don't win a title again or an SEC championship, but I feel like we are bound to get out of the cellar. Its really unusual whats going on with us.

Yeah its happening at Nebraska, but the modern age is partly responsible for that and we don't have that kind of geographical disadvantage.
Agree. Except that UT has everything needed to produce a championship program in terms of fan/booster support and facilities. I am hopeful that White's effectiveness will be a big help.

UT has enough talent to be competitive right now except for a few holes.... LB stands out. UT has enough offensive talent to see some major improvement even in one season.

Heupel needs to make a good DC hire. It doesn't need to be a "flashy" hire but rather someone who knows how to be a DC opposite an O like Heupel's. If they can't do that... then we could see what happened at Mizzou. They scored points but Mizzou's D wasn't built to be on the field 35 minutes per game. They had the worst TOP in the SEC in 2017... more than 3 minutes per game worse than UT who was terrible on O. Correspondingly, Mizzou's D went from among the best in the SEC to near the worst. It essentially doubled from around 16 ppg to around 31 ppg.

Heupel doesn't need a "resume" for DC. He needs someone who handles quick changes well and gets "big plays" on D.
 
So question, I haven’t been able to keep up with the recruiting lately but do we jot have a list of kids who are considering us or since we have a new HC now do we have a list of kids that a new to considering us? Anyone go the info ?
 
So question, I haven’t been able to keep up with the recruiting lately but do we jot have a list of kids who are considering us or since we have a new HC now do we have a list of kids that a new to considering us? Anyone go the info ?
----
 
Woah, key board warrior , I asked a simple question . This is a new staff with a lot of turn over , kids wanting out . I kindly asked if there is a updated list of maybe recruits Heuple is after. Since we don’t know for sure who the staff is I’m sure there are kids wanting to look here with the new hire. Ecspecially offensively....
 
Woah, key board warrior , I asked a simple question . This is a new staff with a lot of turn over , kids wanting out . I kindly asked if there is a updated list of maybe recruits Heuple is after. Since we don’t know for sure who the staff is I’m sure there are kids wanting to look here with the new hire. Ecspecially offensively....
lol, dude. im no warrior, just a smartass.

didnt get a sense we were in anyone else from PC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MADISONGAVOL
It was so unbelievably dumb to not fire Botch after 2016. I dont know how they thought it was a good idea to bring him back after that. That was by far the dumbest thing our administration did.

It at least seems like Heupel has a much better shot than Dooley. Way more proven. But we can't survive those terrible defenses again.

I'm also like...can we really be bad forever? I mean its gotta end at some point? Maybe we don't win a title again or an SEC championship, but I feel like we are bound to get out of the cellar. Its really unusual whats going on with us.

Yeah its happening at Nebraska, but the modern age is partly responsible for that and we don't have that kind of geographical disadvantage.
Come on man. No coach is going to be fired after two 9-4 seasons and two straight bowl wins.
 
  • Like
Reactions: preacherwebb
Come on man. No coach is going to be fired after two 9-4 seasons and two straight bowl wins.
I've seen way more head scratching firings.

Remember Marty Schottenheimer getting canned after going 14-2?

Doug Pedersen just won a super bowl a couple years ago against Tom Brady.

There was zero hope after squandering those two seasons like he did. Everyone knew he would fail.

Except the administration.
 
I've seen way more head scratching firings.

Remember Marty Schottenheimer getting canned after going 14-2?

Doug Pedersen just won a super bowl a couple years ago against Tom Brady.

There was zero hope after squandering those two seasons like he did. Everyone knew he would fail.

Except the administration.
It’s rare.
 
Woah, key board warrior , I asked a simple question . This is a new staff with a lot of turn over , kids wanting out . I kindly asked if there is a updated list of maybe recruits Heuple is after. Since we don’t know for sure who the staff is I’m sure there are kids wanting to look here with the new hire. Ecspecially offensively....
The unfortunate thing for him is that coaching changes are normal made in early December. That enables the new coach to look at current commits and go after different guys if he chooses. Heupel isn't going to be able to do that.

I strongly suspect that between White and Heupel information control is about to get a lot tighter. As far as I know, they JH hasn't commented on recruits or recruiting. I am sure he's talking to guys who are in the portal but he isn't making it public.

I suspect he will go after some transfers himself when the dust settles.

Someone posted a thread listing the transfers out. I'm not sure anyone knows a whole lot about the rest.
 
Come on man. No coach is going to be fired after two 9-4 seasons and two straight bowl wins.
Yet he very clearly should have been fired for losing every game that came down to coaching. He underperformed his talent in every year. A few of us recognized it and called it out starting with year 1. He was an awful coach that should have been recognized and fired.

FWIW, Ron Zook posted two 8-4 regular seasons coming in 2nd in the East in his first year and tied for 1st in his second year. UF fired him.... because that's what a competent AD does when he sees a coach who can't get the most out of his talent.
 
Yet he very clearly should have been fired for losing every game that came down to coaching. He underperformed his talent in every year. A few of us recognized it and called it out starting with year 1. He was an awful coach that should have been recognized and fired.

FWIW, Ron Zook posted two 8-4 regular seasons coming in 2nd in the East in his first year and tied for 1st in his second year. UF fired him.... because that's what a competent AD does when he sees a coach who can't get the most out of his talent.
Easy to make those decisions in hindsight. Maybe you should start applying for open AD positions.
 

VN Store



Back
Top