Amateur Hour Continues

#15,751
#15,751
AM64 said:
Is feigned outrage going to include that Bedford County change it's name? Maybe if Memphis hadn't illegally removed a statue, others wouldn't have moved to honor Forrest. Perhaps Ted Cruz should read a little history .... maybe even consider that without Tennesseans he might be a Mexican fool rather than just a simple fool.

Did you also know that Forrest led the move to disband the Klan version 1 in 1869 because he believed it was "being perverted from its original honorable and patriotic purposes, becoming injurious instead of subservient to the public peace"? That it had moved from the fraternal social club that he and five other former Confederate officers founded three years earlier in 1866 to an organization resisting Reconstruction?

The Klan version 2 started in 1915 on Stone Mountain ... just outside Atlanta; it was not at all what Forrest started.
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What did Forrest do that warrants a state holiday? Which, by the way, predates what Memphis did by many years.
 
#15,752
#15,752
Velo Vol said:
What did Forrest do that warrants a state holiday? Which, by the way, predates what Memphis did by many years.
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Why not? Except for that one little fact ... apparently only the victors get to celebrate. You do know that Lincoln said that if you aren't satisfied with your current government then you should rise up against it to form one that better suits you ... of course, after he became president he apparently changed his opinion. We honor Washington and fail to see that he was a rebel (against the established government) just like Confederates ... it wasn't like the British had invaded and took over ... the colonists grew to despise and reject British rule and acted in accordance with what Lincoln later wrote.
 
#15,753
#15,753
Weezer said:
Both liars, both adulterers, both accused by multiple women of inappropriate behavior. Considering Bill carried out an affair in the WH and got caught lying under oath, I think him slightly worse as a person. A better politician, but in no way a good person.
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What's worse, a handful of lies (largely about private matters) or literally thousands, most of which concern the presidency or the campaign for presidency (How The Washington Post tallied more than 10,000 Trump falsehoods in less than three years - Poynter Inappropriate behavior with a handful of women, or nearly 20 (All the assault allegations against Donald Trump, recapped One wife cheated on or three wives (https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-melania-stormy-daniels-affairs-marriages-timeline-2018-3)?

By your reasoning every murderer is just as bad as any other murderer. Pol Pot is just as bad as the wife who murders her abusive husband.

And this is before we even get to Trump's racism, the selfishness, the narcissism, the attacks on the press, the encouragement of violence at rallies, the praise of murderous dictators, the inability to empathize with others (especially those who are not white males), the attacks on constitutional norms, the intentional divisiveness, etc.
 
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#15,754
#15,754
AM64 said:
Why not? Except for that one little fact ... apparently only the victors get to celebrate. You do know that Lincoln said that if you aren't satisfied with your current government then you should rise up against it to form one that better suits you ... of course, after he became president he apparently changed his opinion. We honor Washington and fail to see that he was a rebel (against the established government) just like Confederates ... it wasn't like the British had invaded and took over ... the colonists grew to despise and reject British rule and acted in accordance with what Lincoln later wrote.
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So in your mind there's no difference between Washington (who was an American president) and Forrest (who was not, even of the Confederacy)?

Why not have a David Koresh holiday if rising up against the government is grounds to be memorialized in state law?
 
#15,755
#15,755
Velo Vol said:
So in your mind there's no difference between Washington (who was an American president) and Forrest (who was not, even of the Confederacy)?
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Every person has the right to revolt, it’s an all in proposition but I cannot condemn someone for revolution against a government.

Caveat: there is a difference between being a terrorist and standing toe to toe on the battlefield.
 
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#15,756
#15,756
AM64 said:
Why not? Except for that one little fact ... apparently only the victors get to celebrate. You do know that Lincoln said that if you aren't satisfied with your current government then you should rise up against it to form one that better suits you ... of course, after he became president he apparently changed his opinion. We honor Washington and fail to see that he was a rebel (against the established government) just like Confederates ... it wasn't like the British had invaded and took over ... the colonists grew to despise and reject British rule and acted in accordance with what Lincoln later wrote.
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Fort Pillow is unjustifiable
 
#15,757
#15,757
You know you're definitely in the wrong if even Ted Cruz finds it racist (although notice the little dig pointing out the Forrest was a Dem, which is effectively meaningless given the evolution of the two parties)

 
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#15,758
#15,758
Weezer said:
Trump is just another politician, but without the fancy wrapper. I can point to any number of politicians that are liars or adulterers, two things often pointed out about Trump when describing him as immoral. All of this "plenty of reason" to detest him argument, why do you not vocally protest these other politicians as well? Could it be they share your political views?

I'm sorry, but it's hard for me to take your argument seriously when your outrage is so obviously selective. I mean, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump are almost the same guy with the exception that Bill was all wrapped up in that nice politician image. And there are still some on here who sing Bill's praises and defend him. And you want me to take you seriously when you talk about how horrible Trump is? He's a despicable person, just like other past presidents, but a lot of the complaints are obviously politically motivated because you've supported people very much like him who shared your political ideology.
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There have certainly been other adulterers and other liars but no one sinks to anywhere near the level of Trump's horrendous despicability. That's just the way it is......IMNSHO
I have lived through multiple republican administrations, live in a state with 2 rep. senators, live in a district with a republican representative. I have never found any of those other republicans remotely close to Trump.
We've been down this road.
You normalize Trump.
I find that normalization not only sad but dangerous.
I almost always value and respect your opinions, but on this one, you're way off.
 
#15,759
#15,759
luthervol said:
There have certainly been other adulterers and other liars but no one sinks to anywhere near the level of Trump's horrendous despicability. That's just the way it is......IMNSHO
I have lived through multiple republican administrations, live in a state with 2 rep. senators, live in a district with a republican representative. I have never found any of those other republicans remotely close to Trump.
We've been down this road.
You normalize Trump.
I find that normalization not only sad but dangerous.
I almost always value and respect your opinions, but on this one, you're way off.
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I think JFK would put Trumps adultery to shame.
 
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#15,760
#15,760
luthervol said:
There have certainly been other adulterers and other liars but no one sinks to anywhere near the level of Trump's horrendous despicability. That's just the way it is......IMNSHO
I have lived through multiple republican administrations, live in a state with 2 rep. senators, live in a district with a republican representative. I have never found any of those other republicans remotely close to Trump.
We've been down this road.
You normalize Trump.
I find that normalization not only sad but dangerous.
I almost always value and respect your opinions, but on this one, you're way off.
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The difference is that past administrations hid their dirt very well with a politician costume. Donald Trump doesn't care like they did about keeping a good boy image. What you saw in the past was a facade.
 
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#15,762
#15,762
Burger said:
The difference is that past administrations hid their dirt very well with a politician costume. Donald Trump doesn't care like they did about keeping a good boy image. What you saw in the past was a facade.
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LOL......You're talking about the king of non-disclosures, catch and kills, lawsuits, and hush money.
 
#15,763
#15,763
Velo Vol said:
So in your mind there's no difference between Washington (who was an American president) and Forrest (who was not, even of the Confederacy)?

Why not have a David Koresh holiday if rising up against the government is grounds to be memorialized in state law?
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Hog answered it very well; I can't improve on what he said.

Here are Lincoln's words regarding rebellion:
Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
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I think you can gather from Lincoln's words that he's talking about citizens as a whole rather than a terrorist or a non-representative gathering of radicals. And for the record, I was speaking of Washington as a general in a rebel army the same as I was of Forrest as a general in a rebel army.
 
#15,764
#15,764
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#15,766
#15,766
evillawyer said:
You know you're definitely in the wrong if even Ted Cruz finds it racist (although notice the little dig pointing out the Forrest was a Dem, which is effectively meaningless given the evolution of the two parties)

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Ted Cruz and Paul Ryan have crawled out of the woodwork lately apparently hoping to gain respectability. You'd almost think political silly season is coming up or something.
 
#15,767
#15,767
luthervol said:
Maybe. Everything else about JFK certainly puts Trump to shame.
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Kennedy brought in a clown named McNamara (probably saved Ford Motor by doing so) and a bunch of self impressed ivy league academic lightweights. Their first highlight was the Bay of Pigs ... or maybe a Marilyn Monroe smuggling act. Their lasting claim to fame was putting us on the path to a war in Vietnam which Kennedy's second in command completely bungled. Kennedy needed LBJ to gather the regional vote necessary to beat Nixon ... not the thing legends are made of.
 
#15,769
#15,769
AM64 said:
Kennedy brought in a clown named McNamara (probably saved Ford Motor by doing so) and a bunch of self impressed ivy league academic lightweights. Their first highlight was the Bay of Pigs ... or maybe a Marilyn Monroe smuggling act. Their lasting claim to fame was putting us on the path to a war in Vietnam which Kennedy's second in command completely bungled. Kennedy needed LBJ to gather the regional vote necessary to beat Nixon ... not the thing legends are made of.
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Yet he's still a legend.....go figure.
 
#15,772
#15,772
luthervol said:
Yet he's still a legend.....go figure.
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Kennedy was young, popular, and charismatic ... like most of Hollywood ... go figure. Oh, yeah, he had money ... lots of money and a pedigree all apparently laundered from booze running during prohibition.
 
#15,775
#15,775
luthervol said:
I find the immediate dollar in the wallet to be saddest of all.
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I agree with that, and most of the forum would as well. Let's break this down then to skin and bones.

1) Define Progress.
2) Define Proper.
3) How do we get there?
4) Who decides what is proper and what is not proper?
5) What are proper benchmarks to measure this "proper progress."
 
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