An American Muslim discusses 9/11 and the mosque

#126
#126
In a February 2008 interview with the
New York Times, Barack Hussein Obama
said the adhan, the Muslim call to prayer,
is "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth
at sunset."

He then recited it, "with a first-class Arabic
accent."

The opening of the adhan contains the shahada,
the Muslim profession of faith, proclaiming, "There
is no god but allah and muhammad is the prophet
of allah."

Anyone who quotes this is considered to be
professing their muslim faith.

This is (among many other reasons) why muslims
in the world dominated by islam believe Bahamamama
is a muslim himself.
 
#127
#127
lawgator1 said:
There have been so many posts here that claim that Islam's goal is to undermine the U.S., to destroy it. Here you have a guy who is Muslim and he takes an American flag with him to Afghanistan and shows it to Muslims there as he teaches them how to read. His brother, also a Muslim, served in the Army post-9/11 and has shrapnel in his leg from a wound he received in service of our country.

I just think its time that the ignorant claim that we are fighting all of Islam, as opposed to a very small radical component who have manipulated and bastardized Islam, be exposed for the falsity it is.
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#128
#128
lawgator1 said:
Anyone on here claiming that this is not about religious intolerance is a fool, a liar, or both.

The far right has made it part of the midterm and 2012 campaigns to paint Muslims with as broad a brush as possible. Heck, there are websites and institutions whose sole goal is to convince the feeble minded in this country that Islam itself is to blame for 9/11.

This mosque debate -- for some -- is about permitting versus judgment. But for a lot of right wing hatemongers, it is an opportunity to once again paint Obama as either a Muslim or a terrorist sympathizer, to define the dispute as Chirstian versus Muslim, or to simply grab on and ride this for all its political worth.

It is a pathetic display of grandstanding about a largely fabricated issue. But because it is resonating with the lowest common denominator amongst us, it has become the case de celeb amongst the far right hate machine.
Click to expand...

YouTube - KeepAmericaSafe.com: WE REMEMBER

Hey LG, here is some more examples of the "pathetic display" from some of the "Hatemongers". You know, some of the familes that lost love ones on 911 and also oppose the Mosque being built on the proposed site along with the other 60-70% of Americans that share the same sentiments.

LG, Thanks to you, BO (not body odor, Barrack Obama), John Stewart and all other "intellectuals" like you for showing us the errors of our ways.

I'll be here waiting patiently for your intriguing response.
 
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#129
#129
lawgator1 said:
There have been so many posts here that claim that Islam's goal is to undermine the U.S., to destroy it. Here you have a guy who is Muslim and he takes an American flag with him to Afghanistan and shows it to Muslims there as he teaches them how to read. His brother, also a Muslim, served in the Army post-9/11 and has shrapnel in his leg from a wound he received in service of our country.

I just think its time that the ignorant claim that we are fighting all of Islam, as opposed to a very small radical component who have manipulated and bastardized Islam, be exposed for the falsity it is.
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That "small, radical component" as you call it, continues to kill hundreds of people a day.
 
#130
#130
droski said:
1) you are really arguing that i'm overplaying what building a mosque in the place of the center of american capitalism means to religious fanatics? you think they wont care in the slightest? you can't be serious.

2) relavance? it still exists. if they want to promote tolerance why not pay for a museum rather than a mosque?

3) why do you think they are building it there? because it's the only space available? it's only allowed to be about 9/11 for the people building the mosque, but can't be about it for those against it?
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You are correct sir.
 
#131
#131
MUR73 said:
YouTube - KeepAmericaSafe.com: WE REMEMBER

Hey LG, here is some more examples of the "pathetic display" from some of the "Hatemongers". You know, some of the familes that lost love ones on 911 and also oppose the Mosque being built on the proposed site along with the other 60-70% of Americans that share the same sentiments.

LG, Thanks to you, BO (not body odor, Barrack Obama), John Stewart and all other "intellectuals" like you for showing us the errors of our ways.

I'll be here waiting patiently for your intriguing response.
Click to expand...

I don't think you really understood his post.

He's saying the argument whether a mosque being built near ground zero is of good judgement is a worthwhile one. However, the argument then expands to include attacks on Islam as a whole, guilt by association, and political posturing by some right-wingers (and Nancy Pelosi, ugh).

Basically, people are straying from the argument when they try to frame this as an attack on Islam as much as those who try to frame it as a 1st amendment issue.
 
#132
#132
T-TownVol said:
well played
Click to expand...

thanks. :angel:

Muslims insult all others five times each day.

The Fatiha (Opening) is the first sura (chapter) of the
Qur’an and most common prayer of Islam.

If you’re a pious Muslim who prays the five requisite
daily prayers of Islam, you will recite the Fatiha seventeen
times in the course of those prayers.

From Wafa Sultan’s book “A God Who Hates” pg. 168:

“A Muslim prays five times a day, and on each occasion
he recites the Fatiha, the first verse of the Koran, a
number of times. This verse describes Christians as
“those who have gone astray” and Jews as “those
who have incurred Your wrath.”

We see from this that Muslims execrate Christians
and Jews a number of times in the course of a single
prayer, which they repeat five times a day.

execrate –verb 1. to detest utterly; abhor;
abominate. 2. to curse; imprecate evil upon; damn;
denounce: He execrated all who opposed him.
 
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#133
#133
gorockytop101 said:
I don't think you really understood his post.

He's saying the argument whether a mosque being built near ground zero is of good judgement is a worthwhile one. However, the argument then expands to include attacks on Islam as a whole, guilt by association, and political posturing by some right-wingers (and Nancy Pelosi, ugh).

Basically, people are straying from the argument when they try to frame this as an attack on Islam as much as those who try to frame it as a 1st amendment issue.
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I don't think you really understand LG. He IS that much of an arse.
He 100% thinks that the only issue here is an attack on the religion of the Muslims. It is NOT.
Build the dang thing somewhere else is all most of us are saying.
 
#134
#134
gsvol said:
thanks. :angel:

Muslims insult all others five times each day.

The Fatiha (Opening) is the first sura (chapter) of the Qur’an and most common prayer of Islam. If you’re a pious Muslim who prays the five requisite daily prayers of Islam, you will recite the Fatiha seventeen times in the course of those prayers.

From Wafa Sultan’s book “A God Who Hates” pg. 168:

“A Muslim prays five times a day, and on each occasion he recites the Fatiha, the first verse of the Koran, a number of times. This verse describes Christians as “those who have gone astray” and Jews as “those who have incurred Your wrath.”

We see from this that Muslims execrate Christians and Jews a number of times in the course of a single prayer, which they repeat five times a day.

execrate –verb 1. to detest utterly; abhor; abominate. 2. to curse; imprecate evil upon; damn; denounce: He execrated all who opposed him.
Click to expand...

I pray for those that have gone astray, mostly me, everyday also. The difference is that I pray for God's mercy on me and all mankind, not his wrath.
 
#135
#135
gorockytop101 said:
I don't think you really understood his post.

He's saying the argument whether a mosque being built near ground zero is of good judgement is a worthwhile one. However, the argument then expands to include attacks on Islam as a whole, guilt by association, and political posturing by some right-wingers (and Nancy Pelosi, ugh).

Basically, people are straying from the argument when they try to frame this as an attack on Islam as much as those who try to frame it as a 1st amendment issue.
Click to expand...

Do you see the project as meant to be a political
statement???

All responsible Americans have a duty to study the
history of islam and become aware of it's political
motives, that is if we hope to continue the level
of freedoms we have endeavored to maintain in
this nation.
 
#136
#136
T-TownVol said:
I pray for those that have gone astray, mostly me, everyday also. The difference is that I pray for God's mercy on me and all mankind, not his wrath.
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That difference is huge and just one of several
huge differences between Christianity and islam.
 
#137
#137
They know that this will simply piss off the American people which is why they probably chose to build near the WTC site.
 
#138
#138
sjt18 said:
LG, all you have done is prove my point... again. In the OP you quote a young liberal, Americanized Muslim. IOW's, someone who the fundamentalist Muslims would denounce, possibly hate, and possibly even kill if they had the chance. You aren't proving that the leadership or most powerful people in the Islamic world are peaceful or do not want to overthrow the US.

The more fundamental a Christian is the less likely they are to use violence in the name of Christianity. The more fundamental a Muslim is the more likely they are to use or approve of violence in the name of Islam.

Because of the religious tolerance enshrined in our Constitution because it was DEMANDED by Christian fundamentalists... Muslims have a right to build this mosque there if they own the property and do so in compliance with the law. That is how CHRISTIANS treat people who disagree with them.

IIRC, under sharia law it is illegal to build a church or rebuild one that has been destroyed. Conversion from Islam to Christianity is a capital crime. Rape of a Christian girl automatically makes her a Muslim and if she tries to go back to Christianity she is guilty of a capital crime.

The Islamic idea of "tolerance" is when they decide not to kill non-converts who agree to live as "dhimmi"- second class citizens with few absolute rights.

It isn't us who need to educate ourselves. I know and have known Muslims who are decent, law abiding people. None of us have pretended those folks don't exist... but you continuously deny that the most powerful elements in the Islamic world are very hostile toward the West and non-muslim world generally.
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Fantastic.
 
#139
#139
gsvol said:
Do you see the project as meant to be a political
statement???

All responsible Americans have a duty to study the
history of islam and become aware of it's political
motives, that is if we hope to continue the level
of freedoms we have endeavored to maintain in
this nation.
Click to expand...

Based on your numerous, lengthy posts on the subject I think that that would be a reasonable conclusion to come to. My question is, what would be the result of this political statement, encouragement to attack us? Doesn't this same result occur if we continually stir up anti-Islamic sentiments in America? Ugh, now I feel like I'm encouraging appeasement... I just wonder if the media firestorm has done more harm than good and put us in a no win position.
 
#140
#140
I realize that Islam does not equal terrorism, and some of the people involved in the religion would like to "build a bridge" to move past this tragedy...but they have to also realize why this is just in bad taste.
 
#141
#141
gorockytop101 said:
Based on your numerous, lengthy posts on the subject I think that that would be a reasonable conclusion to come to. My question is, what would be the result of this political statement, encouragement to attack us? Doesn't this same result occur if we continually stir up anti-Islamic sentiments in America? Ugh, now I feel like I'm encouraging appeasement... I just wonder if the media firestorm has done more harm than good and put us in a no win position.
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That is the feeling they want from you. NYC is a HUGE place. There are many other places they can build their shrine.
 
#144
#144
VOLnVEGAS said:
Is there anything rebuilt on the actual block that once stood the World Trade Center?
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Nope....but, a Christian Church that had a building that was crushed when one of the towers fell on it, has been denied a permit to rebuild.
Someone please explain that one. I heard the story on the news but they gave no explaination.

I would be willing to bet that the Mosque will be up and running before we build any thing at ground zero.
 
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#146
#146
T-TownVol said:
Nope....but, a Christian Church that had a building that was crushed when one of the towers fell on it, has been denied a permit to rebuild.
Someone please explain that one. I heard the story on the news but they gave no explaination.

I would be willing to bet that the Mosque will be up and running before we build any thing at ground zero.
Click to expand...

On the church, it was some sort of issue with the port authority having tunnels or something underneath the church, and being resistant to allowing reconstruction because it would interfere with their operations... I dunno, it was something like that, and pretty lame and questionable even to a heathen like me. The church owns the land and should be able to rebuild without a government entity harassing them.
 
#148
#148
IPorange said:
On the church, it was some sort of issue with the port authority having tunnels or something underneath the church, and being resistant to allowing reconstruction because it would interfere with their operations... I dunno, it was something like that, and pretty lame and questionable even to a heathen like me. The church owns the land and should be able to rebuild without a government entity harassing them.
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I think it is because the city HATES Christians. There can be NO other explaination!
Where the heck is LG? I mean, crap, this is pure Christian bashing!
 
#149
#149
IPorange said:
On the church, it was some sort of issue with the port authority having tunnels or something underneath the church, and being resistant to allowing reconstruction because it would interfere with their operations... I dunno, it was something like that, and pretty lame and questionable even to a heathen like me. The church owns the land and should be able to rebuild without a government entity harassing them.
Click to expand...

agreed...bet there hoping the Church sales the land, then the City can collect taxes
 
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