And some of you guys think we'll finish 8-4

#251
#251
Burger said:
Agreed. We need Blair or Gilliam to be great. The interior will be better than last year.
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I actually think there's a good chance they will. IMO, Crowder should have started and Jackson would have started. IIRC, Kerbyson got some quality PT too. I really like Thomas too. Plus if you are going to break a Fr in on the OL, RT seems to be the place to do it.
 
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#253
#253
sjt18 said:
Jones has done a lot of the right things so far. He's had some notable failures. Hopefully just bumps on the road to success.
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I'm not postin' this to argue or stir things up but what exactly do you think are CBJ's "notable failures"?
 
#255
#255
TnScooby said:
I'm not postin' this to argue or stir things up but what exactly do you think are CBJ's "notable failures"?
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Vandy for sure. It was IMO his strategic mistake more than any tactical error that lost the game. He played "not to lose" and tried to "manage the game" rather than fully using his talent and match advantages.

While I respect his "guts" for trying something, the decision to start Peterman was a pretty big mistake in retrospect. With Worley, UT may have beaten UF.

He was blown out 4 times and completely uncompetitive for all 4 qtrs in at least two of them.

It took an end zone INT to seal the win against a mediocre mid-major- USA.

Mizzou struggled in trying to run their normal O very early in the game... then they just started running base sweeps. UT's coaches never came up with an effective adjustment.

OL's continued to play in spite of not finishing their blocks. McCullers continued to play in spite of routinely playing too high and being pushed 5 yards off the ball. DE's were routinely hooked and sealed but continued to play.


This really isn't THAT long of a list all things considered. It was the first year of installing a relatively complicated system. He does seem to be a guy who builds from the foundation up rather than cobbling things together for the best immediate result. But some of the stuff that goes directly back to coaching and coaching decisions last fall just wasn't pretty. I'm not sure why so many want to deny or sugar coat it. Hopefully what we saw isn't indicative of their "norm". If it is... then last year was just part of the "proof".
 
#256
#256
Backwards K said:
UGA's administration is just smarter than Mike Hamilton and the UTAD was. They realize that in these times when the SEC is the strongest Conference in America that going to 6 SECCGs and finishing in the top 10 six times is very good.

UT fired a coach with a better record and track record (but very similar) and look how that has worked out. The great Steve Spurrier has been as SCarolina for 10 years and he has one SECCG appearance and three Top 10 finishes.

Mark Richt is a very good football coach and a better man. UGA could not find a coach who would win and represent UGA as well as Richt does.

Oh, and for the record. I hate the Georgia Bulldogs!!
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It is this sort of argument that troubles me, and I hear it often.

There is no connection between the botched treatment of the UT coaching carousel after Fulmer left, and the reason Fulmer left in the first place. I respect and admire Fulmer, but it was time for him to go. The SEC was rising all around him, and Fulmer was drowning. It was only a matter of time, ask Mack Brown or Bobby Bowden (Frank Beamer probably isn't too far behind).

To use a medical metaphor: The pain of the recovery process isn't proof that the initial treatment to cure an ailment was wrong. In this case, the attending physician left a sponge inside the incision during surgery, and continued to compound this injury with his treatment. He has since been fired, a new doctor removed the foreign object, and we are finally on the road to recovery.
 
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#257
#257
The problem with the Fulmer firing was the incompetent idiot that fired him. He hired the wrong guy for Tennessee and his incompetence was magnified when he left after one year.

To make matters worse he hired a mistake instead of hiring an interim coach. I actually couldn't believe Hamilton hired Dooley.

I think we're on the right track now, but we should have hired a Butch Jones type after firing Fulmer. Tennessee fans are a unique breed and expect excellence, hiring two egotistical jerks like Kiffin and Dooley was a bad mistake that set our program back years.
 
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#258
#258
VolStrom said:
The problem with the Fulmer firing was the incompetent idiot that fired him. He hired the wrong guy for Tennessee and his incompetence was magnified when he left after one year.

To make matters worse he hired a mistake instead of hiring an interim coach. I actually couldn't believe Hamilton hired Dooley.

I think we're on the right track now, but we should have hired a Butch Jones type after firing Fulmer. Tennessee fans are a unique breed and expect excellence, hiring two egotistical jerks like Kiffin and Dooley was a bad mistake that set our program back years.
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Very well said. Evidently, Hamilton was incapable of making a good football hire and that incapability set us back many years.
 
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#259
#259
VolStrom said:
The problem with the Fulmer firing was the incompetent idiot that fired him. He hired the wrong guy for Tennessee and his incompetence was magnified when he left after one year.

To make matters worse he hired a mistake instead of hiring an interim coach. I actually couldn't believe Hamilton hired Dooley.

I think we're on the right track now, but we should have hired a Butch Jones type after firing Fulmer. Tennessee fans are a unique breed and expect excellence, hiring two egotistical jerks like Kiffin and Dooley was a bad mistake that set our program back years.
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Of all Dooley's flaws I'm not sure about this one......
 
#263
#263
bleedorange0037 said:
I do. Otherwise he wouldn't have basically expected Bryce Brown to grovel at his feet and all but beg him to be allowed back on the team.
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KBVol said:
Sarcasm? I've read and heard of many accounts of a Dooley that described him as an arrogant ass.
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I really haven't. I knew a couple of players on the team during the Dooley era. They said he had very little knowledge about football, was a horrible team motivator, and was impossible to talk to on a personal level. But I never heard any examples of him being arrogant. If anything I would guess we was pretty humbled by his lack of success at UT.
 
#264
#264
chatt-townVOL said:
I really haven't. I knew a couple of players on the team during the Dooley era. They said he had very little knowledge about football, was a horrible team motivator, and was impossible to talk to on a personal level. But I never heard any examples of him being arrogant. If anything I would guess we was pretty humbled by his lack of success at UT.
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I obviously never dealt with him personally. However, from coaches, to players (current and former) and some media members, I've pretty much heard the guy was an arrogant prick, a real horse's ass. Tifwiw.
 
#265
#265
KBVol said:
Sarcasm? I've read and heard of many accounts of a Dooley that described him as an arrogant ass.
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Honestly the difference between a guy with a sharp sense of humor and an arrogant ass... is usually the level of success they enjoy. The tolerance and acceptance of someone who has a smart aleck way about him is tied to how good he is at his job.

Dooley failed... so it costs nothing to think of him as a bad person too.

If Dooley had managed to beat UNC and LSU in '10 then follow that up with more success, there would be less concern over whether he's an ass or not.
 
#267
#267
sjt18 said:
Honestly the difference between a guy with a sharp sense of humor and an arrogant ass... is usually the level of success they enjoy. The tolerance and acceptance of someone who has a smart aleck way about him is tied to how good he is at his job.

Dooley failed... so it costs nothing to think of him as a bad person too.

If Dooley had managed to beat UNC and LSU in '10 then follow that up with more success, there would be less concern over whether he's an ass or not.
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Understand your point....Saban can be an ass with 3 NCs. Still doesn't say much for what kind of person the guy is.

But with regards to Dooley, I think it was a little deeper than that. I recently read an anonymous quote attributed to another SEC coach that referred to Dooley as an arrogant ass. Similarly, Highschool coaches and former players such as Ainge, Treece and Swain described him similarly. Then throw in some of his policies regarding former players being allowed in the facilities and watching practices, especially as juxtaposed to Butch's policies, and we get the sense of who/how Dooley behaved as UTs head coach IMO....regardless of his success.
 
#268
#268
Patton is an American hero.

If he had not been a winner... he would have been considered an arrogant, privileged ass who wasted a lot of soldiers.

Dooley might have been different or maybe not if he'd succeeded. No doubt he would have been thought of differently. Everyone loves a winner... even an unlovable winner.
 
#269
#269
sjt18 said:
Patton is an American hero.

If he had not been a winner... he would have been considered an arrogant, privileged ass who wasted a lot of soldiers.

Dooley might have been different or maybe not if he'd succeeded. No doubt he would have been thought of differently. Everyone loves a winner... even an unlovable winner.
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Again, understand your point. It's both valid and historically proven. Either way, with or without success, Dooley was still an ass which was the point. Put it this way....whether he has 2-3 more 7 loss seasons and gets run or if he wins 200 games and 3 NCs, I'd be willing to bet that everyone continues to refer to Butch as a standup guy.
 
#270
#270
sjt18 said:
Patton is an American hero.

If he had not been a winner... he would have been considered an arrogant, privileged ass who wasted a lot of soldiers.

Dooley might have been different or maybe not if he'd succeeded. No doubt he would have been thought of differently. Everyone loves a winner... even an unlovable winner.
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I think Patton is still considered an arrogant ass but he is respected as a leader because of his results.

An arrogant ass that loses gets no respect. Why should he? What has he done to earn any respect?
 
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#272
#272
ntxVOL said:
I think Patton is still considered an arrogant ass but he is respected as a leader because of his results.

An arrogant ass that loses gets no respect. Why should he? What has he done to earn any respect?
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That was kind of the point... we tend to have more tolerance for winners. It is easy to throw stones at losers. Piling on doesn't take a ton of courage.
 
#274
#274
sjt18 said:
You might not want to admit it but this is the equivalent to saying that Jones, Bajakian, and Mahoney don't know what they're doing. If we are going to make the argument as many have that the OL last year underperformed because the players were new to the system and had not been in an effective development program then we SHOULD be able to expect improvement in a group that is now a year and a half to two full years into the system and development program.

There IS talent. Crowder had offers. Kerbyson had options. Jackson was highly rated. Thomas is beating out veterans. Blair was one of the top JUCO LT's in '14.
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Never said there wasnt talent, just that I do not think our boys are ready to match up with the D-lines of the SEC. Young and inexperienced. To compound that with the lack of good QB play, and its going to be rough. Will have to heavily rely on the WR's and RB's to make plays fast.
 
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