And some of you guys think we'll finish 8-4

[darkgable]

Every year guys get on here and suggest that the incoming Freshman players are going to come in and be better than or just as good as the 3-4 year starters that just graduated. And every year, when those Freshmen don't live up to the expectations set for them, the fans start all over suggesting that they will be replaced by the next crop of incoming players. It seems to be a very cyclical process on VN.

This. Thats because the "experts" who make these 9-4 predictions and true freshman savior rants have never played a sport above the Upward program. They know nothing about the transition of going from a HS system to a college where everybody is just as fast and just as knowledgeable of their system to shut you down. They're PlayStation coaches living in a fantasy. It took 7+ years for this program to hit rock bottom but Butch will rebuild in one year with true freshman and take us to 9-4 because we have speed.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Who the hell said that? I didn't. But it's a fact the coaches brought him in to start right away at LT. Or do you think they brought him with the understanding that he'd sit behind a 5th year walkon who's never made a scratch at UT?

No, what I am saying is that ANY Juco should be expected to contribute immediately because they are a little older and because you usually dont get as many years out of them before they leave. You dont bring Jucos is to "develop" them. You bring them in to fill a short term gap that your regular recruitment of high school kids isnt filling. Jucos HAVE to perform, otherwise its not worth burning a scholarship on them.

 

[MWAVolfan]

This. Thats because the "experts" who make these 9-4 predictions and true freshman savior rants have never played a sport above the Upward program. They know nothing about the transition of going from a HS system to a college where everybody is just as fast and just as knowledgeable of their system to shut you down. They're PlayStation coaches living in a fantasy. It took 7+ years for this program to hit rock bottom but Butch will rebuild in one year with true freshman and take us to 9-4 because we have speed.

This is why I never really get excited about recruiting other than our overall national rank.

You just never know what you're getting until they prove it on the field which usually happens sometime beyond their freshman year.

when I hear about a kid we got in the 2015 class then I think to myself that it probably wont even matter until 2017 and thats a long time for something wrong to happen. So its just not worth getting excited.

Put a winning team on the TV right now and I'll be excited. Until then I will not worry about it until I see it.

 

[daj2576]

This. Thats because the "experts" who make these 9-4 predictions and true freshman savior rants have never played a sport above the Upward program. They know nothing about the transition of going from a HS system to a college where everybody is just as fast and just as knowledgeable of their system to shut you down. They're PlayStation coaches living in a fantasy. It took 7+ years for this program to hit rock bottom but Butch will rebuild in one year with true freshman and take us to 9-4 because we have speed.

If I read the bolded comment correctly, you are suggesting that basically every team has similar athletes as "everyone" is "just as" [fill in the blank].

So what you are saying is that teams like Oregon and Auburn have athletes that are the same as Vanderbilt and Kentucky, or at least "just as fast"? Are you really suggesting that getting better athletes who are faster doesn't really matter? That is what your argument appears to be predicated on. Certainly we can discuss the merits of how much improvement better athletes who are faster will make, but to try to suggest that everyone is just the same seems flimsy.

Speaking of flimsy. I will grant you that playing playstation or upwards sports does not give anyone the resume' to suggest the requisite knowledge to become an expert on higher level sports . Similarly, playing higher level sports doesn't prove proficiency at anything either. That is like saying that a PFC in the 75th Ranger Regiment is qualified to be a Brigadier General just because he held a rifle and went to combat, or that an assembly line worker who builds Camaros at the GM plant has the requisite knowledge to design cars. Those experiences, while requiring some learning and/or skill, don't necessarily prove or disprove qualification for understanding anything larger than that specific skill set.

 

[daj2576]

Every year guys get on here and suggest that the incoming Freshman players are going to come in and be better than or just as good as the 3-4 year starters that just graduated. And every year, when those Freshmen don't live up to the expectations set for them, the fans start all over suggesting that they will be replaced by the next crop of incoming players. It seems to be a very cyclical process on VN.

There is a tipping point where that statement is correct. That is, where incoming talent could be far superior to outgoing talent. Just because an argument has been used incorrectly in the past, doesn't mean it is always wrong.

 

[KBVol]

No, what I am saying is that ANY Juco should be expected to contribute immediately because they are a little older and because you usually dont get as many years out of them before they leave. You dont bring Jucos is to "develop" them. You bring them in to fill a short term gap that your regular recruitment of high school kids isnt filling. Jucos HAVE to perform, otherwise its not worth burning a scholarship on them.

So you weren't being sarcastic your last post that I responded to? If not, you're all over the place on this. On one hand you said he was equivalent to a true freshman, on the other hand you seemed to sarcastically say his scholarship should be pulled if he doesn't come right in and start. Now you say he SHOULD be counted on to step right in as a starter because he's got 2 years of JUCO experience and a 2 year jump on high school freshmen. Confused.

 

[UGADawg4Life]

It's unreasonable to think that the bulldawgs will run away with any of their games. But you might squeak by with some fumbles in overtime or something. Good luck. I do always pull for you over any Spurrier team.

I agree with you on several of our games. And if we were as young and inexperienced as UT will be at the beginning of the season, I'd be wary of a Utah St. type of game. I'm not saying that UT should lose the game. I'm just saying that Vol fans shouldn't say "the sky's falling" if the game is close or if you do happen to lose. The Aggies aren't gonna phone it in and your young players are gonna need some time to get used to the size and speed of CFB.

I could be wrong as I have been before. But I think these guys are gonna need some time.

 

[sjt18]

Every year guys get on here and suggest that the incoming Freshman players are going to come in and be better than or just as good as the 3-4 year starters that just graduated. And every year, when those Freshmen don't live up to the expectations set for them, the fans start all over suggesting that they will be replaced by the next crop of incoming players. It seems to be a very cyclical process on VN.

I agree with this statement... which is why I think this is a 6-8 win team and not a 9-11 win team.

I'm against the flow here in that I don't believe a bunch of the Fr are going to come in and start from the beginning of the season. Those who do end up starting will likely get their shot due to injury.

However I DO believe that the composite talent of each position in the two deep will improve because of the Fr.

On the whole, the two deep at S, CB, NB, LB, WR, RB, and TE will improve. I'm not as sure about OL and DL but a "push" seems quite possible. UT didn't add a QB.

 

[UGADawg4Life]

You can take your arrogant ignorance somewhere else.

Can you name those teams that Jones has lost to that he shouldn't have? I would count Vandy from last year. You act as if he's been plagued by it over his career.

You can believe whatever you like. USU replaces as many or more starters than UT does. So whatever it was they accomplished over the past 3 years... doesn't really have much bearing on this game.... They don't even have the same coach that built their program to respectability among mid-majors. Do your homework!

They may have Keeton back but pretty much NONE of the WR's he made his mark with prior to his injury are still there.

You are the one looking for Superman... on the other sideline.

Didn't mean to strike a nerve. But Jones is 55-34 with a 1-2 bowl record. He's lost to some teams with equal or lessor talent, as have all HCs. CBJ is concerned about the Aggies. So should knowledgeable Vol fans. Not saying it will be a loss. Just saying that it's not a blowout on paper. :hi:

 

[MustafaRasta]

I am in the 6-8 win camp( at least as much as I can be considering it's July 1st and we have not even started summer practice yet)

I think we improve because of talent but the jump will not be immense in the win/loss column due to schedule and lack of experience in key locations.

I think some if not most are missing the point about the freshmen though.
Usually freshmen don't start from a top 5 class because they are playing behind 42 other all americans at Alabama or FSU or whatever top 5 team they are recruited by.

Has anyone happened to notice that we are not a top 5 team but we did land a top 5 class? There are no all americans for these fellers to sit behind for 1-2 years.

Now, if you think that fresmen only sit because they have little high school bodies and they need time to sit and drink milk for a couple years until they can play big boy SEC football, well then I can't help you.

If you tend to be more rational about it though, it's plausible to think that they sit not because they can't play in the league but because there is so much talent in front of them that coaches can afford to RS them and let his other stars play.

By the by, little Cam Sutton held up pretty well in the SEC. Marquez North a WR who didn't actually play much WR in high school did ok and he wasn't even on campus this time last year.

 

[sjt18]

Right, so Crowder, Kerbyson, and Wiesman were for the most part backups which are the guys who could not beat out the starters.

IMO, Crowder could have started without ANY drop off from Stone. I think Weisman, Jackson, or Kerbyson could have started for Bullard without a drop off. James is a very good football player and Tiny will probably be missed.

That's why you have coaches... they are supposed to fit the pieces together and make it work.

Blair is a true freshman with serious questions about whether he can live up to his 4* rating and the other tackle is a walk-on.

Blair is a highly rated, highly recruited JUCO player. EVERYONE wanted him.

No one should consider this O-line better than last years group of experienced players until they prove otherwise.

True. But considering they now have a year in Jones' system and his off-season program there should not be a significant drop off. If the coaches are doing their jobs whatever minor drop off in talent there is between the two groups should be compensated for by coaching and development.

 

[sjt18]

I am in the 6-8 win camp( at least as much as I can be considering it's July 1st and we have not even started summer practice yet)

I think we improve because of talent but the jump will not be immense in the win/loss column due to schedule and lack of experience in key locations.

I think some if not most are missing the point about the freshmen though.
Usually freshmen don't start from a top 5 class because they are playing behind 42 other all americans at Alabama or FSU or whatever top 5 team they are recruited by.

Has anyone happened to notice that we are not a top 5 team but we did land a top 5 class? There are no all americans for these fellers to sit behind for 1-2 years.

Now, if you think that fresmen only sit because they have little high school bodies and they need time to sit and drink milk for a couple years until they can play big boy SEC football, well then I can't help you.

If you tend to be more rational about it though, it's plausible to think that they sit not because they can't play in the league but because there is so much talent in front of them that coaches can afford to RS them and let his other stars play.

By the by, little Cam Sutton held up pretty well in the SEC. Marquez North a WR who didn't even ply WR in high school did ok and he wasn't even on campus this time last year.

I think they "sit" because it takes time for them to learn the systems effectively. If they feed it to them in doses.... that lack of knowledge should not prevent them from becoming quality depth fairly early. Several teams that are expected to play well this fall will have several freshmen in their two deeps. A lot of USCe's two deep last year were Fr.

 

[sjt18]

Didn't mean to strike a nerve. But Jones is 55-34 with a 1-2 bowl record. He's lost to some teams with equal or lessor talent, as have all HCs. CBJ is concerned about the Aggies. So should knowledgeable Vol fans. Not saying it will be a loss. Just saying that it's not a blowout on paper. :hi:

It wasn't so much what you said... but the arrogant way you said it. Bluntly, just because Richt has a bad habit of playing down to competition doesn't mean that Jones or anyone else will.

"On paper" from a pure talent standpoint it IS a blowout. UT is MUCH more talented "on paper" even BEFORE you add the Fr class.

PS- Still waiting on that list of teams. Daj can probably help you out. He's done some interesting research. He says that Jones is a +2 win coach. IOW's, he has outperformed his talent by an avg of 2 wins per year. I am STILL in wait and see with respect to Jones. I am NOT satisfied that this staff got as many wins out of last year's roster as they should have. My hope is that some of what appeared to be underperformance was instead an investment in "doing it the right way" that will yield longer term results.

 

[RockyTopDC]

the OL will kill TN this year. just have to rely on the star studded WR's and RB's to make plays

 

[sjt18]

the OL will kill TN this year. just have to rely on the star studded WR's and RB's to make plays

You might not want to admit it but this is the equivalent to saying that Jones, Bajakian, and Mahoney don't know what they're doing. If we are going to make the argument as many have that the OL last year underperformed because the players were new to the system and had not been in an effective development program then we SHOULD be able to expect improvement in a group that is now a year and a half to two full years into the system and development program.

There IS talent. Crowder had offers. Kerbyson had options. Jackson was highly rated. Thomas is beating out veterans. Blair was one of the top JUCO LT's in '14.

 

[Nationdom]

No offense, and I appreciate the enthusiasm, but you have no earthly idea what you're talking about IMO. Again, no offense.

You don't know football, you don't have a clue about big time talent, and you're afraid to win. No offense.(serious)

 

[KBVol]

You don't know football, you don't have a clue about big time talent, and you're afraid to win. No offense.(serious)

You throw out all those ridiculous rah rah platitudes that mean absolutely nothing and I don't know football? Sure.

 

[Nationdom]

You throw out all those ridiculous rah rah platitudes that mean absolutely nothing and I don't know football? Sure.

Nothing that I have said has been unrealistic in any shape or form. They don't mean nothing, they are very accurate descriptions of what you can expect to see this fall.

 

[Volfan2012]

I think three games will determine what kind of season we have Florida, Ole Miss, and Missouri. We should beat Vandy, Kentucky, Utah State, Chattanooga, and Arkansas State. So that is five wins. We sweep those three game were 8 and 4. We win one were 6 and 6. We win two were 7 and 5. I think Florida and Missouri are very beatable. I don't feel we can win versus Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, or Oklahoma. A Florida win can be huge for confidence feel like we can take them this year.

 

[Nationdom]

I think three games will determine what kind of season we have Florida, Ole Miss, and Missouri. We should beat Vandy, Kentucky, Utah State, Chattanooga, and Arkansas State. So that is five wins. We sweep those three game were 8 and 4. We win one were 6 and 6. We win two were 7 and 5. I think Florida and Missouri are very beatable. I don't feel we can win versus Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, or Oklahoma. A Florida win can be huge for confidence feel like we can take them this year.

Why not USC ? We beat them last year and almost beat them two years ago. They lose Clowney and shaw. I think that game is very winnable. Out talent is very close to them.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

I wish we played USC. The only games that are likely losses are UA & OU. We have a shot at everyone else.

 

[UGADawg4Life]

It wasn't so much what you said... but the arrogant way you said it. Bluntly, just because Richt has a bad habit of playing down to competition doesn't mean that Jones or anyone else will.

"On paper" from a pure talent standpoint it IS a blowout. UT is MUCH more talented "on paper" even BEFORE you add the Fr class.

PS- Still waiting on that list of teams. Daj can probably help you out. He's done some interesting research. He says that Jones is a +2 win coach. IOW's, he has outperformed his talent by an avg of 2 wins per year. I am STILL in wait and see with respect to Jones. I am NOT satisfied that this staff got as many wins out of last year's roster as they should have. My hope is that some of what appeared to be underperformance was instead an investment in "doing it the right way" that will yield longer term results.

I think you should reread my post and be a little less sensitive. Vegas has Utah St. at -2. That ain't a blowout. Starting off the season with a young team is "iffy" at best. CBJ is concerned about getting these young guys ready. Maybe you're not. Only time will tell who's right. UT should improve as the season progresses. But the first game is virtually a toss up, IMHO.

 

[Miatatom]

Ninth fewest in the country should tell us all we better have some patience. It's going to be a rough ride. I hope there's some high points to help dull the low ones.

 

[omghulkhands]

You don't know football, you don't have a clue about big time talent, and you're afraid to win. No offense.(serious)

what were your season predictions the last 4 years?

 

[Nationdom]

what were your season predictions the last 4 years?

Last year I thought 7-5, and would come close or beat Oregon, year before I thought 9-3. Can't remember before that