Another bad apple (George Floyd case)

#126
#126
knox-townVOL said:
I’m confused. Where in my post did I state my beliefs on the matter?
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When you said they'd "have a decent self defense case."

Otherwise, that's an interesting way of conceding your argument doesn't hold water.
 
#127
#127
Rickyvol77 said:
There were at least 4 officers in this video. It appears 2 had been struggling with securing this suspect, while another one was handcuffing his partner, and i don't know what the 4th guy was doing (i guess crowd control or some such thing since one had gathered).

If you have a suspect (no matter how big they are) that is experience excited delirium, being high obviously can make him/her more dangerous (i.e. stronger, making unpredictable responses, violent, etc) BUT the goal of any situation like this is to safely take the person into custody without anyone being hurt.

If you (as an officer) tase, use a baton, use pepper spray, use physical force, whatever, the goal is to handcuff and contain the person as best as possible.

If you remember the Rodney King incident, he was being mouthy (who cares) when they were trying to arrest him, but because he was on cocaine he exhibited the same behaviors, however they were idiots because they correctly used the batons but instead of trying to jump on King and secure him, he kept getting up and they kept hitting him with batons, creating an unneccesary power struggle.

These officers appeared NOT to have been trained on excited delirium, and even worse, the one was either pissed off or didn't differentiate between passive resistance (trying not to be handcuffed, or trying to get up) versus actual resistance (trying to hit the officer, etc)

I wish we had a full video of the entire incident, but if it had been ME on the call, i would've used the force necessary to place him in cuffs and then sat him up against the car's wheels and awaited for EMS. He obviously was on drugs, and was going to have to go to the hospital to be checked out for that before a jail would take him. The more pressure you place on a person's back and neck in a prone position, especially if they have excited delirium, it greatens the chance for them to have positional asphyxiation which is what happened here.

The only two possibilities here was that the officer had never been trained properly by the department OR he was just pissed off and didn't care and BOTH are unacceptable.

This is different from Eric Garner, because he didn't die from that, he died because he was morbidly obese and his heart couldn't take his struggle with the officers
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I guarantee you this officer had been trained on positional asphyxiation. I guarantee you he had been trained on use of force protocols. MPD has lost or settled previous lawsuits on these very things, virtually insuring that, for liability, they are trained. Every department has mandatory training regarding these issues. The officer used very poor judgment, a man died in his custody because of his actions and now he will also pay a price for his poor judgment.

Once his prisoner passed out, the officer's lack of response or sense of urgency about his prisoner's condition is going to come back to bite him, big time.
 
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#133
#133
GoBigOrangeUT said:
He’d be charged with murder 1 and people would completely forget about the guy who was killed by the cop. Rules for thee but not for me.
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Do you think they would actually get charged and convicted if it's clear cut defending a life that's in clear and imminent danger? As in video of the entire ordeal?
 
#134
#134
Chris4Vols22 said:
Do you think they would actually get charged and convicted if it's clear cut defending a life that's in clear and imminent danger? As in video of the entire ordeal?
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Not my area of expertise, but IMO he’d get charged and would claim the equivalent of self-defense, but probably still gets convicted because he could have done something less than shoot the cop
 
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#135
#135
k-town_king said:
The whole saying is one bad apple spoils the bunch. If there are so many "bad apple" police then that means all of them have been spoiled.

This here is murder. All over a POSSIBLE bad check.


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For once I would like to see the good law enforcement officers take a stand and say enough is enough these tyrants will not disgrace our profession, the honor of the badge, and the trust that the citizens have placed in us. This will never happen because it’s protect the thin blue line at all costs.

The piece of sh$t standing there doing crowd control or whatever he was doing could have possibly saved that mans life if he had pulled his rogue POS partner off and arrested him for brutality. Nothing like this would ever happen because a true law enforcement officer who would do the right thing and protect and serve would be ostracized.

Thank God someone filmed this or these scumbags would have lied about what happened and would still be harassing and beating citizens.

I wonder if some of the law abiding citizens in the crowd had been practicing their constitutional protected 2nd amendment right if this would have ended differently. Armed citizens could have pulled that POS off of him and placed these tyrants under citizens arrest until real police officers showed up.
 
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#136
#136
MOOOOONEY said:
For once I would like to see the good law enforcement officers take a stand and say enough is enough these tyrants will not disgrace our profession, the honor of the badge, and the trust that the citizens have placed in us. This will never happen because it’s protect the thin blue line at all costs.

The piece of sh$t standing there doing crowd control or whatever he was doing could have possibly saved that mans life if he had pulled his rogue POS partner off and arrested him for brutality. Nothing like this would ever happen because a true law enforcement officer who would do the right thing and protect and serve would be ostracized.

Thank God someone filmed this or these scumbags would have lied about what happened and would still be harassing and beating citizens.

I wonder if some of the law abiding citizens in the crowd had been practicing their constitutional protected 2nd amendment right if this would have ended differently. Armed citizens could have pulled that POS off of him and placed these tyrants under citizens arrest until real police officers showed up.
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They all were wearing body cams. Death in custody usually gets investigated by agencies outside the department in question. This time it's the FBI and Minnesota State Bureau of Investigations.
 
#138
#138
Just watched some coverage of this situation, something I rarely do, and they stated he died at the hospital. I have not watched the entire video but if he died at the hospital and not on scene that would typically rule out asphyxiation unless they did some damage to the trachea. Anyone have any more details on that or did the cable network get it wrong?
 
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#139
#139
Chris4Vols22 said:
But what would happen legally? Any chance in the world that a court/jury would deem it justified?
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Well, it'd get messy. In theory one could cite "defense of life" which on it's face doesn't exclude use of force against LEO. A criminal act that threatens the life of someone is actionable. The twist is going to be justifying what "you" might see as an actionable threat against another that would still be within the legal actions of the officer in controlling a person. There can be a lot of leeway in what is considered legally "justifiable force" by LEO and you interjecting yourself anywhere that rather ambiguous scenario would probably end very badly for you.
 
#141
#141
Rickyvol77 said:
He died from positional asphyxiation due to excited delirium which is common among drug addicts with underlying conditions. Being “hogtied” as you suggest would’ve caused the same thing that this idiot officer did
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Thanks, the officer helped to induce his death. Therefore he's quilty of murder and should be charged. Some of these leo's are borderline criminals. He's either one of those or a complete moron. Probably both.
 
#142
#142
KB5252 said:
Just watched some coverage of this situation, something I rarely do, and they stated he died at the hospital. I have not watched the entire video but if he died at the hospital and not on scene that would typically rule out asphyxiation unless they did some damage to the trachea. Anyone have any more details on that or did the cable network get it wrong?
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let the spin begin.
 
#143
#143
KB5252 said:
Just watched some coverage of this situation, something I rarely do, and they stated he died at the hospital. I have not watched the entire video but if he died at the hospital and not on scene that would typically rule out asphyxiation unless they did some damage to the trachea. Anyone have any more details on that or did the cable network get it wrong?
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So when a dude gets shot by the police but doesn’t die at the scene he wasn’t really killed by the police? Lol
 
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#146
#146
GoBigOrangeUT said:
So when a dude gets shot by the police but doesn’t die at the scene he wasn’t really killed by the police? Lol
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While one shouldn't rule out a possible correlation the "shot but died later" I don't think holds up as a good analogy. I think being shot doesn't have nearly as much ambiguity as what KB posited.

I haven't looked so no idea about the time frame but if it comes down to a medical examiner/autopsy opinion after the fact that could really muddy the story line.
 
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#147
#147
GoBigOrangeUT said:
So when a dude gets shot by the police but doesn’t die at the scene he wasn’t really killed by the police? Lol
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The narrative I've heard here is that he was suffocated. That detail, if true, would indicate there is more to it and not necessarily a straight up murder as many here are saying. I'm just saying let's hear all the facts and let the truth come out before jumping to an automatic conclusion.
 
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#148
#148
Septic said:
When you said they'd "have a decent self defense case."

Otherwise, that's an interesting way of conceding your argument doesn't hold water.
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Hmm... nope, that doesn’t indicate my beliefs at all. Saying they have a “decent self defense case” is stating an opinion, but doesn’t say that I agree with it.
 
#149
#149
KB5252 said:
The narrative I've heard here is that he was suffocated. That detail, if true, would indicate there is more to it and not necessarily a straight up murder as many here are saying. I'm just saying let's hear all the facts and let the truth come out before jumping to an automatic conclusion.
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The knee being pinned on his carotid artery for that long a period of time would cut off blood flow, essentially shutting his brain down. Whether or not he died there or at the hospital is inconsequential.
 
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