Another bad apple (George Floyd case)

#101
#101
Septic said:
I mean, he was grunting he couldn't breathe... Just before he passed out.

You're nuts if you think the McMichael hillbillies are going to walk.
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They will have a decent self-defense case. What does the video show? Arbery attacked first. I’m not saying it will be the right verdict, but a “We chased him down to confront him and he attacked us, it’s right here on video” case will be hard to argue against.
 
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#103
#103
Carl Pickens said:

Minneapolis protests have already started
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I fully expect there will be for blood in the streets, some will be in blue unis.
Think of the LEO's that have to defend this rouge cops behavior. Not sure how some of these guys sleep at night.
We have people discussing whether the knee on the back of throat killed him? Really, that's what you take from the video of the cop smashing his neck down in the street for 8-10 mims?
Most likely he died from a heat attack of fear.
No matter what the coroners "report" will show it was unnecessary restraint until he died.
Did Barney and Barney 2 not any zip cuffs? He could have been cuffed at the ankles and hogtied with his wrists.
He's then going nowhere and steroid cop could have just lorded over him with his tack boot on his back until the wagon came to get him.
 
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#104
#104
I'm all for law enforcement, most are decent, some have bad days.

Watched COPS since inception and LivePD as well. I've never seen how after subduing the suspect, in cuffs, while you would proceed to keep a knee on the person anymore than is needed to pick them up off the ground.

If it was me, many times seeing it on TV, I'd be pissed off, too. On concrete no less.

Now, why in the world is is too hard to pick up the suspect and then put him in the car, immediately after, or place him on the side or bumper? Besides kicking, which as a police officer you should have minimal training in being able to deal with, counter, and combat the kicking.....what can someone do.......?

Keeping someone on the ground, can only be about "containing and controlling the situation" and "maybe from eliminating any harm to officers".............well, isn't the situation over the second suspect is cuffed....and on the ground, and no longer a real viable threat............he spits, you put on the spit mask, he kicks, sit on his legs, or hog tie him, and put him in the cruiser..........

Common sense, and I would think "procedure" dictates he shouldn't have been knee pressuring any person handcuffed on the ground for any extended amount of time, the situation is over, move to next step.......the longer the process of not having the suspect in the back of the car only increases whatever probable, no matter how improbable, a situation that could present any type of "harm" to the officer.....

So, question is, why did "you" the officer persist.......? He deserves his day in court, but, it does not look good for this civil servant.
 
#105
#105
knox-townVOL said:
They will have a decent self-defense case. What does the video show? Arbery attacked first. I’m not saying it will be the right verdict, but a “We chased him down to confront him and he attacked us, it’s right here on video” case will be hard to argue against.
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It's not self defense when you're in the middle of committing an aggravated assault.

Arbery, being chased down and accosted by the two armed hillbillies - was defending himself.

It's fascinating that you and guys like @Rickyvol77 would have people believe that in the commission of an armed felony, that Arbery didn't have the right to fight back.

I have to wonder... If Arbery had used a licensed, concealed gun instead of his hands and he was white, they were black - would you still be saying he 'attacked' them? Doubt it.
 
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#106
#106
Wireless1 said:
Your choice of words are very telling. Look closely at the picture the knee or leg is on the back of his neck or upper shoulders .,. Throat is incite-fully misleading.
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You’re being absurd. I’ll tell you what. You name the place, sign a waiver, and let me put my knee on your neck for seven minutes.

Game?
 
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#107
#107
tennvols77 said:
I'm all for law enforcement, most are decent, some have bad days.

Watched COPS since inception and LivePD as well. I've never seen how after subduing the suspect, in cuffs, while you would proceed to keep a knee on the person anymore than is needed to pick them up off the ground.

If it was me, many times seeing it on TV, I'd be pissed off, too. On concrete no less.

Now, why in the world is is too hard to pick up the suspect and then put him in the car, immediately after, or place him on the side or bumper? Besides kicking, which as a police officer you should have minimal training in being able to deal with, counter, and combat the kicking.....what can someone do.......?

Keeping someone on the ground, can only be about "containing and controlling the situation" and "maybe from eliminating any harm to officers".............well, isn't the situation over the second suspect is cuffed....and on the ground, and no longer a real viable threat............he spits, you put on the spit mask, he kicks, sit on his legs, or hog tie him, and put him in the cruiser..........

Common sense, and I would think "procedure" dictates he shouldn't have been knee pressuring any person handcuffed on the ground for any extended amount of time, the situation is over, move to next step.......the longer the process of not having the suspect in the back of the car only increases whatever probable, no matter how improbable, a situation that could present any type of "harm" to the officer.....

So, question is, why did "you" the officer persist.......? He deserves his day in court, but, it does not look good for this civil servant.
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The reason he was on the ground and not in the back of a patrol car is they had called an ambulance due to his distress. WTF. Makes no sense.
 
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#108
#108
Roustabout said:
You’re being absurd. I’ll tell you what. You name the place, sign a waiver, and let me put my knee on your neck for seven minutes.

Game?
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Or any part of your back.........freaking A right, too much.

Not trying to say anything to Wireless, these civil servants deserve their day in court, but, as of now, too much of the hard arse cop, not enough of sensible reasons as to why this much time would be needed to "de-escalate" the situation, as, by continuing to place his knees on the suspect, he prolonged, and maybe was escalating, the arrest process...right?

Sad.
 
#109
#109
Roustabout said:
The reason he was on the ground and not in the back of a patrol car is they had called an ambulance due to his distress. WTF. Makes no sense.
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And the second EMS is called, wouldn't policy change to something else than.....keep knee on suspect on the concrete........
 
#110
#110
Roustabout said:
The reason he was on the ground and not in the back of a patrol car is they had called an ambulance due to his distress. WTF. Makes no sense.
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Pretty much every first aid class on the planet teaches that holding pressure to the back of the neck with one's knee is SOP for all forms of distress.
 
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#115
#115
Zues1 said:
I fully expect there will be for blood in the streets, some will be in blue unis.
Think of the LEO's that have to defend this rouge cops behavior. Not sure how some of these guys sleep at night.
We have people discussing whether the knee on the back of throat killed him? Really, that's what you take from the video of the cop smashing his neck down in the street for 8-10 mims?
Most likely he died from a heat attack of fear.
No matter what the coroners "report" will show it was unnecessary restraint until he died.
Did Barney and Barney 2 not any zip cuffs? He could have been cuffed at the ankles and hogtied with his wrists.
He's then going nowhere and steroid cop could have just lorded over him with his tack boot on his back until the wagon came to get him.
Click to expand...
He died from positional asphyxiation due to excited delirium which is common among drug addicts with underlying conditions. Being “hogtied” as you suggest would’ve caused the same thing that this idiot officer did
 
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#117
#117
Rarely do I not place blame on people who create their own issues and sometimes deaths by their own simple free will and decision making. I always try to give the benefit of the doubt to law enforcement first. Reason, they deal with a lot of crappy and pathetic and dangerous skiddish people and high emotional stressful situations. More than not, the suspects are responsible for the reactions from the police.

But, why would the cop continue on pressuring any part of the neck or spine? Put a taser in his back and tell him not to move, he does, zap him, hog tie him, maybe not best if a medical situation?.....Flip him on his side and straddle him.......I just can't see any reasoning to continue to do as the officer did when many other options seemingly would keep the suspect from further anger or action in fighting back or resisting.

To me, by continuing to hurt someone, which is what is happening in this situation, it is only escalating the situation. I'd be pissed off, and getting more pissed off as the time ticked on and he continued to have any force what so ever pushing down on my back or neck. On drugs, more agitated I'd imagine.
 
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#118
#118
Rickyvol77 said:
He died from positional asphyxiation due to excited delirium which is common among drug addicts with underlying conditions. Being “hogtied” as you suggest would’ve caused the same thing that this idiot officer did
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Ok, good, agree hog tie presents issues.

What is the correct way to hold or subdue the suspect once cuffed, and having any type of medcial "condition" or reaction? Serious question if you know protocol.... appreciate the dialogue.
 
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#119
#119
tennvols77 said:
Rarely do I not place blame on people who create their own issues and sometimes deaths by their own simple free will and decision making. I always try to give the benefit of the doubt to law enforcement first. Reason, they deal with a lot of crappy and pathetic and dangerous skiddish people and high emotional stressful situations. More than not, the suspects are responsible for the reactions from the police.

But, why would the cop continue on pressuring any part of the neck or spine? Put a taser in his back and tell him not to move, he does, zap him, hog tie him, maybe not best if a medical situation?.....Flip him on his side and straddle him.......I just can't see any reasoning to continue to do as the officer did when many other options seemingly would keep the suspect from further anger or action in fighting back or resisting.

To me, by continuing to hurt someone, which is what is happening in this situation, it is only escalating the situation. I'd be pissed off, and getting more pissed off as the time ticked on and he continued to have any force what so ever pushing down on my back or neck. On drugs, more agitated I'd imagine.
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I am not a cop at all but seeing numerous videos.... I think cops are trained in this technique except the knee is suppose to be more on the shoulder area instead of the neck. Either way.... they have to be better than this.
 
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#120
#120
tennvols77 said:
Ok, good, agree hog tie presents issues.

What is the correct way to hold or subdue the suspect once cuffed, and having any type of medical "condition" or reaction? Serious question if you know protocol.... appreciate the dialogue.
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There were at least 4 officers in this video. It appears 2 had been struggling with securing this suspect, while another one was handcuffing his partner, and i don't know what the 4th guy was doing (i guess crowd control or some such thing since one had gathered).

If you have a suspect (no matter how big they are) that is experience excited delirium, being high obviously can make him/her more dangerous (i.e. stronger, making unpredictable responses, violent, etc) BUT the goal of any situation like this is to safely take the person into custody without anyone being hurt.

If you (as an officer) tase, use a baton, use pepper spray, use physical force, whatever, the goal is to handcuff and contain the person as best as possible.

If you remember the Rodney King incident, he was being mouthy (who cares) when they were trying to arrest him, but because he was on cocaine he exhibited the same behaviors, however they were idiots because they correctly used the batons but instead of trying to jump on King and secure him, he kept getting up and they kept hitting him with batons, creating an unneccesary power struggle.

These officers appeared NOT to have been trained on excited delirium, and even worse, the one was either pissed off or didn't differentiate between passive resistance (trying not to be handcuffed, or trying to get up) versus actual resistance (trying to hit the officer, etc)

I wish we had a full video of the entire incident, but if it had been ME on the call, i would've used the force necessary to place him in cuffs and then sat him up against the car's wheels and awaited for EMS. He obviously was on drugs, and was going to have to go to the hospital to be checked out for that before a jail would take him. The more pressure you place on a person's back and neck in a prone position, especially if they have excited delirium, it greatens the chance for them to have positional asphyxiation which is what happened here.

The only two possibilities here was that the officer had never been trained properly by the department OR he was just pissed off and didn't care and BOTH are unacceptable.

This is different from Eric Garner, because he didn't die from that, he died because he was morbidly obese and his heart couldn't take his struggle with the officers
 
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#121
#121
volbeast33 said:
I am not a cop at all but seeing numerous videos.... I think cops are trained in this technique except the knee is suppose to be more on the shoulder area instead of the neck. Either way.... they have to be better than this.
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the knee to the back of the neck without tons of pressure isn't wrong as long as it's literally a 2-3 second thing to prevent immediate injury, holding it there for 30 sec to a minute is complete idiocy
 
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#122
#122
Bigun said:
That is what makes this infuriating as there was no need to have your knee on this guys neck once he submits. Now it gives the race baiters more ammunition and they don't need any to begin with but this idiot cop deserves what he gets.
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I think race plays a role. People have preconceived notions and to act like race plays no role is to be willfully blind.
 
#124
#124
Wireless1 said:
It appears from the 20 seconds of tape that every news channel runs that the force was excessive but we are seeing one angle. The deceased was obviously able to inhale since his cry’s for relief was louder than the officers. I believe he was having difficulty breathing but was it for the knee or some medical cause ( the officers had an ambulance on the way and suspected he was under the influence of something) It’s Minneapolis which elected Talib so they will side a certain way. I’m not saying the officers are completely innocent but when all the news reports show the same exact film footage and have very similar commentary I question if we are being told what to believe

View attachment 282944
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See?
 
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#125
#125
Septic said:
It's not self defense when you're in the middle of committing an aggravated assault.

Arbery, being chased down and accosted by the two armed hillbillies - was defending himself.

It's fascinating that you and guys like @Rickyvol77 would have people believe that in the commission of an armed felony, that Arbery didn't have the right to fight back.

I have to wonder... If Arbery had used a licensed, concealed gun instead of his hands and he was white, they were black - would you still be saying he 'attacked' them? Doubt it.
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I’m confused. Where in my post did I state my beliefs on the matter?
 
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