Any chance Butch brings Fulmer back?

#127
#127
vol81 said:
sjt and the like are just setting themselves up to have this same conversation about butch is a few years; they are among those who live and breath negativity, likely in all aspects of their life. There is no changing their mindset. Its best to just leave them alone and let them think they are right. 13 year olds are like that too............
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Holy cow!!! Either you are new or remember me wrong.

I am extremely hopeful that Jones will get the job done. I have been called both a Fulmerite and a Doolover for a) remaining hopeful while others talked the team down and b) advocating that a coach get a real chance to succeed before being thrown out. I say what I believe "success" will look like BEFOREHAND then stick with it as things unfold.

After 2005, MANY fans here where hatefully demanding Fulmer be fired. I said he should get a chance to turn it around but NO BACKSLIDING until he won the SEC again. When in 2008 it was no longer possible for him to achieve that... I began to say it was time to replace him and move on. Similarly, I said that Dooley should have to prove himself by year three by competing for the East and beating someone who mattered. When he lost to USCe last fall extinguishing any hope of accomplishing either... I said it was time to move on.

Up until those times, I held out hope that both guys would find a way to turn the tide. Coaching changes are not good for your program but there are points of no return.


I think Jones inherits a team with enough talent to make 7 wins a reasonable expectation if he's the right guy to lead UT back. I am not saying I think Jones should be fired if he doesn't do that this year. I am saying it would be a very strong indication he does not have what it takes. Next year's roster will be worse (younger and thinner quality wise) and schedule just as tough with Oklahoma replacing Oregon OOC. So if he wins 6 or less this year then I believe his chances of surviving to see a year 4 drop to well under 50%. Six wins this fall makes 4 or 5 reasonable next fall... meaning he'd have to yank out some sort of incredible miracle in '15 with what could still be a thin and young team.

I hope he wins 7-9 games this year then follows that up with 6 next year. That buys him time and even more recruiting credibility since he should not be on any kind of hot seat. By 15 or 16 he could realistically be in a position to compete for the SEC. But make no mistake. His ability to coach a team up will be tested THIS YEAR. There's talent.... if he can use it.

His history... is that he knows how to get the best from a roster. I hope it repeats at UT.
 
#128
#128
volfanecs said:
Pathetic
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Why because it disproves what you have decided to believe blindly?

Fulmer had a good run. Most of us can and do appreciate that. But he got left behind by the competition and either couldn't or wouldn't change.
 
#129
#129
I believe I remember an interview in which CBJ stated that Fulmer and Majors were both resources he uses often.

It Still to this day dumbfounds me on how negative most of the fanbase is towards Fulmer. When he is the one responsible for making expectations in this area so high.
 
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#130
#130
ImportedVoL said:
I believe I remember an interview in which CBJ stated that Fulmer and Majors were both resources he uses often.

It Still to this day dumbfounds me on how negative most of the fanbase is towards Fulmer. When he is the one responsible for making expectations in this area so high.
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I don't believe you can just slap one label or the other on him. Yes. He was a very successful coach in the 90's and early 00's. He became a recruiting force going into SC, GA, LA, and MS to pretty much pluck whoever he wanted.

OTOH, times changed and he refused to. The competition got better. He didn't nor did he demand/allow his staff (particularly Sanders) to get better. As great as much of his time was, you cannot deny what had happened at the end or the trajectory of the program under Fulmer.

Honor him for what he accomplished but don't turn a blind eye to how he fell.
 
#131
#131
sjt18 said:
Why because it disproves what you have decided to believe blindly?

Fulmer had a good run. Most of us can and do appreciate that. But he got left behind by the competition and either couldn't or wouldn't change.
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No, because it proves how blind you are to his accomplishments.
 
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#135
#135
CountVolcula said:
Florida was great under Spurrier
Arkansas was up and down
Alabama was on probation
Auburn was on probation
Georgia had Ray Goff
Ole Miss was bad
Miss. St was bad
LSU had Di'Nardo
South Carolina sucked
Kentucky was Kentucky
Vandy was Vandy
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Yeah and Tennessee was the sh&t under Fulmer.



Your point?
 
#137
#137
sjt18 said:
I don't believe you can just slap one label or the other on him. Yes. He was a very successful coach in the 90's and early 00's. He became a recruiting force going into SC, GA, LA, and MS to pretty much pluck whoever he wanted.

OTOH, times changed and he refused to. The competition got better. He didn't nor did he demand/allow his staff (particularly Sanders) to get better. As great as much of his time was, you cannot deny what had happened at the end or the trajectory of the program under Fulmer.

Honor him for what he accomplished but don't turn a blind eye to how he fell.
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Don't turn a blind eye to how he fell?






He won the East in 07 you clown.

Under Fulmer 14/16 good seasons

With Out Fulmer 0/4 good seasons


Do the math Jack
 
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#138
#138
Vol4life25 said:
Don't turn a blind eye to how he fell?






He won the East in 07 you clown.

Under Fulmer 14/16 good seasons

With Out Fulmer 0/4 good seasons


Do the math Jack
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we lost 100-37 to our biggest rivals in 2007 and had to wait for them to lose in order to make it to Atl.

you seem to not want to ever separate pre-2001 Fulmer with post-2001 Fulmer. It was obvious to anyone watching that the trajectory was down and he used his NC card after the 2005 season (a season where we had a preseason top-5 ranking and Fulmer talking about the NC).

he was an average coach in his last 4 years. Making the claim he was better than Dooley doesn't really have the impact you're searching for
 
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#139
#139
utvolpj said:
we lost 100-37 to our biggest rivals in 2007 and had to wait for them to lose in order to make it to Atl.

you seem to not want to ever separate pre-2001 Fulmer with post-2001 Fulmer. It was obvious to anyone watching that the trajectory was down and he used his NC card after the 2005 season (a season where we had a preseason top-5 ranking and Fulmer talking about the NC).

he was an average coach in his last 4 years. Making the claim he was better than Dooley doesn't really have the impact you're searching for
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You can nitpick all you want, We won the East in 07.

1 NC
2 SEC Titles
7 Division Titles
152-52

He did go from great to average towards then end, but what person who has done anything great in life, hasn't struggled at one point? Give him a chance to pull his self out.

But we have Butch now, and hopefully he will bring us back to the top.

No use crying over spilt milk, what's done is done.
 
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#141
#141
Vol4life25 said:
You can nitpick all you want, We won the East in 07.

1 NC
2 SEC Titles
7 Division Titles
152-52

He did go from great to average towards then end, but what person who has done anything great in life, hasn't struggled at one point? Give him a chance to pull his self out.

But we have Butch now, and hopefully he will bring us back to the top.

No use crying over spilt milk, what's done is done.
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it's not nitpicking to say we got abused by our 2 biggest rivals in 2007 and benefited greatly from our schedule. His chance to pull himself out was in 2005. The team never really got back to competing with the big boys and it was only going to get worse with Saban now in the mix.

Just using an overall record as proof of anything is misleading. He hadn't won anything in 10yrs and his record his last 4 years was below average compared to the resources at his disposal.

there's also no such thing as a division "title"
 
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#142
#142
utvolpj said:
it's not nitpicking to say we got abused by our 2 biggest rivals in 2007 and benefited greatly from our schedule. His chance to pull himself out was in 2005. The team never really got back to competing with the big boys and it was only going to get worse with Saban now in the mix.

Just using an overall record as proof of anything is misleading. He hadn't won anything in 10yrs and his record his last 4 years was below average compared to the resources at his disposal.

there's also no such thing as a division "title"
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All I'm saying is Dooley got 3 chances, Fulmer should of too.

And ask USCjr. If there's no such thing as Divison titles, they wave that thing around as if it was a National Championship.

So if we had to do it over, would you still of fired Fulmer, then hired Kiffin and Dooley or kept Fulmer, and gave him one more year to try to turn it around?

Bc Sjt has said he would go through another 100 coaching changes before giving Fulmer another chance, in another thread.
 
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#143
#143
Vol4life25 said:
All I'm saying is Dooley got 3 chances, Fulmer should of too.

And ask USCjr. If there's no such thing as Divison titles, they wave that thing around as if it was a National Championship.

So if we had to do it over, would you still of fired Fulmer, then hired Kiffin and Dooley or kept Fulmer, and gave him one more year to try to turn it around?

Bc Sjt has said he would go through another 100 coaching changes before giving Fulmer another chance, in another thread.
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so we're comparing ourselves to USCjr now? SEC titles is the only real one.

Fulmer got plenty of chances since he lasted 10 yrs without a title. Think bama, UF, LSU, UGA, etc would do the same?

the hiring process that took place after he was fired is not relevant to the conversation. His lack of success and the downward trajectory of the program under his watch got him fired
 
#144
#144
utvolpj said:
so we're comparing ourselves to USCjr now? SEC titles is the only real one.

Fulmer got plenty of chances since he lasted 10 yrs without a title. Think bama, UF, LSU, UGA, etc would do the same?

the hiring process that took place after he was fired is not relevant to the conversation. His lack of success and the downward trajectory of the program under his watch got him fired
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So in your mind, we should be winning a NC every 10 years?

I really don't understand where the sense of entitlement comes from. If you take away WW2 era, and maybe 5-10 seasons in between and then part of the Fulmer era. Historically Tennessee is a mediocre team.

Just taking me orange glasses off for a second.
 
#145
#145
Vol4life25 said:
So in your mind, we should be winning a NC every 10 years?
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pretty sure I said UT should win an SEC title at least once every decade and have been consistent about that

Vol4life25 said:
I really don't understand where the sense of entitlement comes from. If you take away WW2 era, and maybe 5-10 seasons in between and then part of the Fulmer era. Historically Tennessee is a mediocre team.

Just taking me orange glasses off for a second.
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that's pretty funny since you aren't willing to do that with Fulmer's record. Of course once you start taking years out of his record he becomes an average to below-average coach
 
#147
#147
utvolpj said:
pretty sure I said UT should win an SEC title at least once every decade and have been consistent about that



that's pretty funny since you aren't willing to do that with Fulmer's record. Of course once you start taking years out of his record he becomes an average to below-average coach
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I just used that for an example, why would anyone take years off a coaches record?

He was a great coach, then became a good coach, then a midiocre coach, then a good coach, then a mediocre coach.

If you follow that pattern, Great is up next.
 
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#148
#148
utvolpj said:
it's not nitpicking to say we got abused by our 2 biggest rivals in 2007 and benefited greatly from our schedule. His chance to pull himself out was in 2005. The team never really got back to competing with the big boys and it was only going to get worse with Saban now in the mix.

Just using an overall record as proof of anything is misleading. He hadn't won anything in 10yrs and his record his last 4 years was below average compared to the resources at his disposal.

there's also no such thing as a division "title"
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I bet there will be a division "title" if CBJ finishes 1st.
 
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#149
#149
Wait tell Sjt gets on, he's going to write a 5000 word essay on why Fulmer failed as a coach and why Dooley should of been givin more time. Lol
 
#150
#150
Vol4life25 said:
Yeah and Tennessee was the sh&t under Fulmer.



Your point?
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Its deductive reasoning

We deduced that a majority of Fulmer's wins and titles were when the SEC was down.

We also deduced that once the SEC became stronger by adding coaches like Spurrier again, Meyer, Saban, Richt, and Miles, Fulmer started to nose dive

This is fact. Not made up Fulmer hate.
 
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