Appropriate punishment or not?

[BigOrangeTrain]

How about let’s not march into a store and start calling people the n-word over sh*tty coffee and donuts? Play stupid games you’ll win stupid prizes.

I try to put myself in the shoes of each person and assess relatability. With the worker, I think 99.9% of the time I could brush the old man off and handle him through the correct channels… but if he caught me on that one wrong day, I can relate to hauling off and punching him. On the flip side, I can 100% say I don’t relate to marching into a dunk’n a berating a worker, calling him the n-word. Even on my worst day I’m confident in saying I would never do that.

What does that mean in relation to liability? Probably nothing, but it informs my opinion that most of the responsibility for the incident rests with the instigator. The manager deserves punishment for retaliating and escalating, but he didn’t start the whole thing.

I see so because an elderly person called a little black guy a name, that justifies assault? Sounds just like an idiot liberal.

 

[OHvol40]

I see so because an elderly person called a little black guy a name, that justifies assault? Sounds just like an idiot liberal.

Is that what I said… at all? I feel like I was a little more nuanced than that. We all see/hear what we want to I guess.

 

[CABVOL]

I’m still trying to figure out if I should be offended when I’m playing COD Vanguard, there are black ppl calling me and anyone else the n-word every 6th word they say? What say you? Should I get my boxer briefs in a bunch?

 

[TheDeeble]

How about let’s not march into a store and start calling people the n-word over sh*tty coffee and donuts? Play stupid games you’ll win stupid prizes.

The same applies to people that throw unnecessary punches. Especially when the punches are thrown against a 77 year old man.

I don't know what the legal definitions require, but it seems like he got off light for an assault that resulted in someone's death.

 

[Weezer]

How about let’s not march into a store and start calling people the n-word over sh*tty coffee and donuts? Play stupid games you’ll win stupid prizes.

I try to put myself in the shoes of each person and assess relatability. With the worker, I think 99.9% of the time I could brush the old man off and handle him through the correct channels… but if he caught me on that one wrong day, I can relate to hauling off and punching him. On the flip side, I can 100% say I don’t relate to marching into a dunk’n a berating a worker, calling him the n-word. Even on my worst day I’m confident in saying I would never do that.

What does that mean in relation to liability? Probably nothing, but it informs my opinion that most of the responsibility for the incident rests with the instigator. The manager deserves punishment for retaliating and escalating, but he didn’t start the whole thing.

Well that's just BS. Each person is individually responsible for their actions. The old man is responsible for being a racist ass hole that hurt the employee's feelings. The employee is responsible for losing his cool, punching an old man, and inadvertently killing him. The actions of each is 100% on them. This is like Ras blaming everyone else for Putin invading the Ukraine.

 

[Zues1]

I'll pose this question.
When you were 27 did you ever think for one minute if you sucker punched a 77 year old you would not knock them out cold?
I know I would have and I'm sure the majority of you would have as well.
When you knock some one out they hit the floor like John Tate. Smacking your head at 77 on the floor is a death blow.
Did the guy mean to kill the 77 year old? Probably not but you can bet he meant to knock his azz out.
Actions have consequences. The Donut man's actions resulted in a death. Just like a drunk driver, neither one meant to kill another person but their actions / decision caused a death.
Two years house arrest is just another slap in the face to the dead man's family.

 

[davethevol]

Honestly, the guy probably should serve a month or so in jail.

 

[NCFisher]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/09/corey-pujols-sentence-dunkin-punch/

What say you?

He should have no less sentence than Chauvin. This sends a message that battery is tacitly permissible if you're black and angry.

 

[walkenvol]

How about let’s not march into a store and start calling people the n-word over sh*tty coffee and donuts? Play stupid games you’ll win stupid prizes.

I try to put myself in the shoes of each person and assess relatability. With the worker, I think 99.9% of the time I could brush the old man off and handle him through the correct channels… but if he caught me on that one wrong day, I can relate to hauling off and punching him. On the flip side, I can 100% say I don’t relate to marching into a dunk’n a berating a worker, calling him the n-word. Even on my worst day I’m confident in saying I would never do that.

What does that mean in relation to liability? Probably nothing, but it informs my opinion that most of the responsibility for the incident rests with the instigator. The manager deserves punishment for retaliating and escalating, but he didn’t start the whole thing.

Think somebody in their late 70’s might be suffering from cognitive impairment? What if a 7 year old kid came in and used the N word - jaw punch him too?

 

[NCFisher]

Yes. This was an elderly person that was attacked. Not some 20 year old. The fact that the man got punched at all is a huge problem.

Yabbut but I'm calling BS on the entire notion that ANYone gets to attack - injuring or possibly maiming or killing - ANYone of ANY age over speech. Period. Such injuries and death happen much more frequently than people acknowledge.

You don't get to attack someone over words. He should be Chavinated.

 

[NCFisher]

Call someone a racial slur, get hit in the mouth for it and then shoot and kill the person because they did something you knew was coming? I’m not surprised you would defend that
Lol at comparing “cracker” to the N word like the most clueless of white people. Killing someone for punching you in the face once in a situation you created isn’t “self-defense” anyway, so no, no one black or white should be shooting someone over this. Wtf kind of trigger-happy country are we in

Punch a frail, elderly person and expect them not to be injured or die? Is inflicting injury NOT the point of hitting someone? Over speech?
"What kind of country are we in?" that you condone battery in response to words?

Unsurprising you support that.

 

[85SugarVol]

Yes. This was an elderly person that was attacked. Not some 20 year old. The fact that the man got punched at all is a huge problem.

I agree that it is not ok to punch an old man. Unfortunately the old man died.

But 10 years? That seems excessive to me.

3 years Max. Out in 18 months with good behavior.

 

[EasternVol]

The guy was in the drivethru, got angry, came inside to throw a tantrum, called dude the word, then got rightfully punched. He's a convicted sex offender too. Sometimes you deserve what you get.

The other guy has no criminal record and is working at Dunkin. Sending him to jail just makes him a career criminal. I'm good with it.

The conviction makes him a convicted felon. Where he spends the sentence is immaterial to that. A career criminal is someone with multiple convictions so that doesn't apply.
The dead guy's past doesn't matter in the case. Should Dunkin man have gotten 30 years if old guy was a Medal of Honor recipient?

 

[NashVol11]

Punch a frail, elderly person and expect them not to be injured or die? Is inflicting injury NOT the point of hitting someone? Over speech?
"What kind of country are we in?" that you condone battery in response to words?

Unsurprising you support that.

What are you talking about? I’m saying I don’t support shooting him over it. In that situation you’ve already recovered from the punch enough to pull a gun, you see the guy isn’t coming to throw a second punch (which I’m pretty sure he wasn’t); BOT says kill him anyway because…? He had the nerve to touch you?

 

[NCFisher]

Think somebody in their late 70’s might be suffering from cognitive impairment? What if a 7 year old kid came in and used the N word - jaw punch him too?

WTF not? We have suspended the moral and judicial notion of disproportionate response. This is why I insist that karma should visit violence upon those who excuse it rather than those who simply say "no, this is wrong, period".

You know who you are.

 

[McDad]

How about let’s not march into a store and start calling people the n-word over sh*tty coffee and donuts? Play stupid games you’ll win stupid prizes.

I try to put myself in the shoes of each person and assess relatability. With the worker, I think 99.9% of the time I could brush the old man off and handle him through the correct channels… but if he caught me on that one wrong day, I can relate to hauling off and punching him. On the flip side, I can 100% say I don’t relate to marching into a dunk’n a berating a worker, calling him the n-word. Even on my worst day I’m confident in saying I would never do that.

What does that mean in relation to liability? Probably nothing, but it informs my opinion that most of the responsibility for the incident rests with the instigator. The manager deserves punishment for retaliating and escalating, but he didn’t start the whole thing.

I guess it is too much to ask people to control their own emotions and actions. I can't control what someone calls me and there are many ways to handle unruly, hateful people which do not require assault.

 

[McDad]

He should have no less sentence than Chauvin. This sends a message that battery is tacitly permissible if you're black and angry.

Oof. That's a really bad take.

 

[85SugarVol]

What are you talking about? I’m saying I don’t support shooting him over it. In that situation you’ve already recovered from the punch enough to pull a gun, you see the guy isn’t coming to throw a second punch (which I’m pretty sure he wasn’t); BOT says kill him anyway because…? He had the nerve to touch you?

He probably could have mounted a pretty good defense in Florida if he had shot him.

 

[McDad]

Yabbut but I'm calling BS on the entire notion that ANYone gets to attack - injuring or possibly maiming or killing - ANYone of ANY age over speech. Period. Such injuries and death happen much more frequently than people acknowledge.

You don't get to attack someone over words. He should be Chavinated.

I agree except for the last sentence.

 

[NCFisher]

What are you talking about? I’m saying I don’t support shooting him over it. In that situation you’ve already recovered from the punch enough to pull a gun, you see the guy isn’t coming to throw a second punch (which I’m pretty sure he wasn’t); BOT says kill him anyway because…? He had the nerve to touch you?

I'm pointing out the oblivious irony in your posts.

Back up; you're glossing over where at least twice you excuse the battery by stating the old man "created" it, and is thereby responsible for the violence inflicted on him. You entirely excuse the person committing violence over speech.

NashVol11 said:
Call someone a racial slur, get hit in the mouth for it and then shoot and kill the person because they did something you knew was coming? I’m not surprised you would defend that
Lol at comparing “cracker” to the N word like the most clueless of white people. Killing someone for punching you in the face once in a situation you created isn’t “self-defense” anyway, so no, no one black or white should be shooting someone over this. Wtf kind of trigger-happy country are we in

That BS. Hitting someone is intended to inflict injury; it's the entire point. The 'society' you decry is the same you make excuse for when you victim-blame.

 

[NCFisher]

Oof. That's a really bad take.

I understand your objection and why you err in the judgment.

Murder was over the top for Chauvin; he should have been found on no more than a lesser charge of negligent manslaughter or some such. There is no evidence that Chauvin intended to kill or even injure Floyd, or that Floyd died from anything other than his comorbs and potentially lethal intake of fentanyl and meth.

So, why should someone who purposely inflicts injury that unquestionably results in death get less than what Chauvin should have gotten? Or that he received?

 

[McDad]

I understand your objection.

Murder was over the top for Chauvin; he should have been found on no more than a lesser charge of negligent manslaughter or some such. There is no evidence that Chauvin intended to kill or even injure Floyd, or that Floyd died from anything other than his comorbs and potentially lethal intake of fentanyl and meth.

So, why should someone who purposely inflicts injury that unquestionably results in death get less than what Chauvin should have gotten?

I see two critical differences between the events. Floyd was subdued via restraints. There was no need to continue to apply pressure to his neck area. Furthermore, 3 other officers were there to lend a hand even if Floyd became harmful to others. Secondly, the police have a higher standard because of their training and their legal lethality. Authorities, experts, and professionals who make mistakes are held to a higher standards than layman if harm or loss comes from at their hand..

 

[NashVol11]

I'm pointing out the oblivious irony in your posts.

Back up; you're glossing over where at least twice you excuse the battery by stating the old man "created" it, and is thereby responsible for the violence inflicted on him. You entirely excuse the person committing violence over speech.

NashVol11 said:
Call someone a racial slur, get hit in the mouth for it and then shoot and kill the person because they did something you knew was coming? I’m not surprised you would defend that
Lol at comparing “cracker” to the N word like the most clueless of white people. Killing someone for punching you in the face once in a situation you created isn’t “self-defense” anyway, so no, no one black or white should be shooting someone over this. Wtf kind of trigger-happy country are we in

That BS. Hitting someone is intended to inflict injury; it's the entire point. The 'society' you decry is the same you make excuse for when you victim-blame.

That’s not “oblivious irony,” plenty of people say things that end up with them getting punched in the face and I’m not always weeping for the instigator. If you think everyone who throws a punch should get years in jail that’s fine, but the legal system clearly disagrees with you

 

[OHvol40]

The same applies to people that throw unnecessary punches. Especially when the punches are thrown against a 77 year old man.

I don't know what the legal definitions require, but it seems like he got off light for an assault that resulted in someone's death.

I think I touched on this in the rest of my post.

 

[OHvol40]

Think somebody in their late 70’s might be suffering from cognitive impairment? What if a 7 year old kid came in and used the N word - jaw punch him too?

Are you inserting variables into the story that don’t exist?