Appropriate punishment or not?

#76
#76
NashVol11 said:
Lol at comparing “cracker” to the N word like the most clueless of white people. Killing someone for punching you in the face once in a situation you created isn’t “self-defense” anyway, so no, no one black or white should be shooting someone over this. Wtf kind of trigger-happy country are we in
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The kind where nobody has to be assaulted even if it means using deadly force. For people to hate a word so much they sure do use it a lot.
 
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#77
#77
McDad said:
I guess it is too much to ask people to control their own emotions and actions. I can't control what someone calls me and there are many ways to handle unruly, hateful people which do not require assault.
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Hence why I said 99.9% of the time I, personally, would handle it differently. I understand this concept. But maybe the day you decide to go on a racist tirade is the day you catch someone who just finalized a divorce and lost custody of their kids or some other awful scenario… or maybe you went off on someone with bipolar. That’s the risk you run going on a racist tirade I guess.
 
#78
#78
OHvol40 said:
Hence why I said 99.9% of the time I, personally, would handle it differently. I understand this concept. But maybe the day you decide to go on a racist tirade is the day you catch someone who just finalized a divorce and lost custody of their kids or some other awful scenario… or maybe you went off on someone with bipolar. That’s the risk you run going on a racist tirade I guess.
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Agree. It's the main reason I teach my children the art of de escalation. Never know where someone is emotionally, or what weapons they have access to.
With that said, calling somone a name is no justification for assault. No matter how macho it makes someone feel or how ugly the names are.
 
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#79
#79
C-south said:
The kind where nobody has to be assaulted even if it means using deadly force. For people to hate a word so much they sure do use it a lot.
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Lol yep, we should all be shooting to kill because “he hit me earlier” even if we’re in no danger whatsoever
 
#80
#80
The guy was asking to get punched, he got punched.

The Dunkin employee is working, a ****** job, trying to make his way. He's not a criminal. He's not a cop entrusted to protect the community. The guy asked to get punched, he got punched. There's no point in sending him to prison. I'm sure he regrets killing him. He'll get counseling. Look, nature is still nature. Don't start fights and assume you'll just walk away.
 
#82
#82
Weezy said:
The guy was asking to get punched, he got punched.

The Dunkin employee is working, a ****** job, trying to make his way. He's not a criminal. He's not a cop entrusted to protect the community. The guy asked to get punched, he got punched. There's no point in sending him to prison. I'm sure he regrets killing him. He'll get counseling. Look, nature is still nature. Don't start fights and assume you'll just walk away.
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bad take.
 
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#83
#83
McDad said:
bad take.
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Courtesy, respect, etc. I'm not asking the state to enforce the normal laws of decency. You can't run around screaming at everyone because your morning cup of coffee didn't meet your standard. You might approach the wrong guy. This guy found him. I'm sure it wasn't his first time doing this.
 
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#84
#84
Weezy said:
Courtesy, respect, etc. I'm not asking the state to enforce the normal laws of decency. You can't run around screaming at everyone because your morning cup of coffee didn't meet your standard. You might approach the wrong guy. This guy found him. I'm sure it wasn't his first time doing this.
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The actions of the racist, old man do not dictate what another person does. Dunkin man should maintain his composure, keep his emotions in check.
Dunkin man will have to live the rest of his life knowing he contributed to the death of someone. That's a hell of a burden to carry. This ain't Hollywood. Normal people who kill others, even accidentally, live with that guilt forever.
 
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#85
#85
McDad said:
The actions of the racist, old man do not dictate what another person does. Dunkin man should maintain his composure, keep his emotions in check.
Dunkin man will have to live the rest of his life knowing he contributed to the death of someone. That's a hell of a burden to carry. This ain't Hollywood. Normal people who kill others, even accidentally, live with that guilt forever.
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And I'm sure he regrets it. But he didn't shoot him. He punched him, and an unexpected result occured. Jail serves no purpose here.
 
#87
#87
Not to sound racist, but I don't think a black guy should be able to kill an old man because he used the forbidden word. I mean, I know we're asking a lot of black people to be able to not kill people when they hear an upsetting word, but they need to at least try.
 
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#88
#88
SamRebel35 said:
Not to sound racist, but I don't think a black guy should be able to kill an old man because he used the forbidden word. I mean, I know we're asking a lot of black people to be able to not kill people when they hear an upsetting word, but they need to at least try.
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He didn't shoot him. He responded as humans have responded for thousands of years. I suppose being 77 may buy some protection from your actions, but it didn't this time.
 
#89
#89
Weezy said:
He didn't shoot him. He responded as humans have responded for thousands of years. I suppose being 77 may buy some protection from your actions, but it didn't this time.
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You're right. I changed my mind. We can't possibly expect a black person to be able to not kill an 80 year old when he says a bad word. Other races, maybe we could expect them to not do it, but there's just something about the color of his skin that makes him incapable of doing things that every other person on planet earth seems to be able to do.
 
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#90
#90
For reference, Dr. Fauci is 81, Biden is 79, and Trump is 75. 2 out of 3 of these folks still have enough marbles left that we can take what they say as something other than old man ramblings. And I'd wager that under the right circumstance 50% if the board would punch them if they said the right thing to them. Well, this old racist sexual predator (not talking about Joe here) found the right guy.
 
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#91
#91
Weezy said:
For reference, Dr. Fauci is 81, Biden is 79, and Trump is 75. 2 out of 3 of these folks still have enough marbles left that we can take what they say as something other than old man ramblings. And I'd wager that under the right circumstance 50% if the board would punch them if they said the right thing to them. Well, this old racist sexual predator (not talking about Joe here) found the right guy.
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LOL. That was a well-timed disclaimer.
 
#92
#92
McDad said:
The actions of the racist, old man do not dictate what another person does. Dunkin man should maintain his composure, keep his emotions in check.
Dunkin man will have to live the rest of his life knowing he contributed to the death of someone. That's a hell of a burden to carry. This ain't Hollywood. Normal people who kill others, even accidentally, live with that guilt forever.
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He can go get his tear drop tatt now.
 
#94
#94
If the sentence is in line with others convicted of involuntary manslaughter in that jurisdiction then it's an appropriate sentence.
 
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#97
#97
McDad said:
I see two critical differences between the events. Floyd was subdued via restraints. There was no need to continue to apply pressure to his neck area. Furthermore, 3 other officers were there to lend a hand even if Floyd became harmful to others. Secondly, the police have a higher standard because of their training and their legal lethality. Authorities, experts, and professionals who make mistakes are held to a higher standards than layman if harm or loss comes from at their hand..
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What is the value of a life? If we apply equal treatment under the law, we have established the old dead white guy's life is virtually worthless, while Floyd's was invaluable. Intent and manner of harm inflicted on a person are the supposed gauge to determine penalty.

There is no question being battered by Dunkin directly caused the guy's death; whether Chauvin caused Floyd's death is not without reasonable doubt given his health and ingestion of overdose quantity. Dunkin intended injury, that is the purpose of battery; it cannot be said Chauvin intended Floyd's injury or death rather than he was negligent. And while using a restraint designed by MPD for restraining persons under influence of drugs.

If justice is blind - its purpose the equitable protection of life and liberty - it cannot gauge Dunkin's actions and result as less malevolent than the MN officers' based upon nothing more than race. Not to digress, but what we're witnessing is a parallel system of legal corruption whose aim is not justice but power via settling some destroy-the-system score based upon racialized Marxism.

I'm arguing absence of consistent application of justice is the absence of justice. Dunkin should go to prison for no less than negligent or unintentional manslaughter or similar.
 
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#98
#98
NashVol11 said:
That’s not “oblivious irony,” plenty of people say things that end up with them getting punched in the face and I’m not always weeping for the instigator. If you think everyone who throws a punch should get years in jail that’s fine, but the legal system clearly disagrees with you
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No, but everyone who is battered has the option to press charges.
Unless they're dead from the battery in which case, yes, you should get years in prison.

The irony is you're still blaming the victim of battery for 'creating' their punching while ignoring you've no right to batter someone except in defense.
 
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#99
#99
NCFisher said:
What is the value of a life? If we apply equal treatment under the law, we have established the old dead white guy's life is virtually worthless, while Floyd's was invaluable. Intent and manner of harm inflicted on a person are the supposed gauge to determine penalty.

There is no question being battered by Dunkin directly caused the guy's death; whether Chauvin caused Floyd's death is not without reasonable doubt given his health and ingestion of overdose quantity. Dunkin intended injury, that is the purpose of battery; it cannot be said Chauvin intended Floyd's injury or death rather than he was negligent. And while using a restraint designed by MPD for restraining persons under influence of drugs.

If justice is blind - its purpose the equitable protection of life and liberty - it cannot gauge Dunkin's actions and result as less malevolent than the MN officers' based upon nothing more than race. Not to digress, but what we're witnessing is a parallel system of legal corruption whose aim is not justice but power via settling some destroy-the-system score based upon racialized Marxism.

I'm arguing absence of consistent application of justice is the absence of justice. Dunkin should go to prison for no less than negligent or unintentional manslaughter or similar.
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Our legal system isn't built on the concept that all life is equally valuable. Nor is it built on the notion cause of death or intention of perpetrator is inconsequential to punishment.
 
#100
#100
SamRebel35 said:
You're right. I changed my mind. We can't possibly expect a black person to be able to not punch an 80 year old when he says a bad word. Other races, maybe we could expect them to not do it, but there's just something about the color of his skin that makes him incapable of doing things that every other person on planet earth seems to be able to do.
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FYP, and people of all races punch people over words all the time.
 
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