Are we ever going to catch Georgia?

#51
#51
Thread says it. Are we ever really going to catch them? I don’t think so. People can talk about the portal and NIL all you want. It’s not
Leveling anything. All it’s doing is making the rich richer. I mean how long has it been since we have owned UGA? Well let’s look at facts.

Since 2000, we are 6-18 against UGA. And let’s face facts. The UGA that Heupel is going against is VASTLY better than ANY UGA team Fulmer or anyone else faced. I mean Butch beat UGA in 2015 and 2016. I mean really? That was Riches last year and Kirby’s first ever with a true FR QB. In 2016 we needed a pure luck play to beat them.

We know UGA will recruit nothing less than top 3 from here on out. So how do we overcome that?
I will quote Spurrier......" Georgia or Atlanta has become the new Florida with recruiting". Then you throw in Athens as the best college town in the South. Not to mention its 45 minutes from the busiest airport in the United States with more flight options than any other airport. Atlanta is a large city that can offer as much to recruits as New York, Los Angeles, etc..

This is why they can go get the Brock Bowers from California.

It's the new frontier...

Going to be hard to recruit against it---
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigOrangeTrain
#53
#53
I will quote Spurrier......" Georgia or Atlanta has become the new Florida with recruiting". Then you throw in Athens as the best college town in the South. Not to mention its 45 minutes from the busiest airport in the United States with more flight options than any other airport. Atlanta is a large city that can offer as much to recruits as New York, Los Angeles, etc..

This is why they can go get the Brock Bowers from California.

It's the new frontier...

Going to be hard to recruit against it---
We were told that NIL and the portal was gonna level the playing field. lol. It’s done no such thing. Bottom line is if you wanna win big in college football you HAVE to build your team through recruiting. And like you said, the chances of us ever catching them on the recruiting trail is slim to none.
 
#54
#54
Thread says it. Are we ever really going to catch them? I don’t think so. People can talk about the portal and NIL all you want. It’s not
Leveling anything. All it’s doing is making the rich richer. I mean how long has it been since we have owned UGA? Well let’s look at facts.

Since 2000, we are 6-18 against UGA. And let’s face facts. The UGA that Heupel is going against is VASTLY better than ANY UGA team Fulmer or anyone else faced. I mean Butch beat UGA in 2015 and 2016. I mean really? That was Riches last year and Kirby’s first ever with a true FR QB. In 2016 we needed a pure luck play to beat them.

We know UGA will recruit nothing less than top 3 from here on out. So how do we overcome that?
You say let’s look at facts? Well let’s do exactly that when we talking about closing the talent gap.

Since 2021 UT has been gutted for what talent they did have and lost it. After Pruitt was fired UT had 35 or so players transfer, recruits de-committing, and having to vacate scholarships due to Pruitts behavior. That has been the biggest difference between UT and UGA and Bama over the last 2 years. Our starters have been as good as anyone else starters most times. But when the game gets into the 2nd half, either teams come back from being behind, or they pull away. This year we have 4 losses where the Vols were either leading or only down by 14 or less at half. 2nd half comes and our starters are worn out for having to play as much, and our rotational players are not near as good as other teams due to lack of depth.

35+28= 63 scholarship players lost due to transfers and scholarship reductions since 2021. NCAA only allows 85 scholarship players. Up till spring of last year, you could only sign 25 players per cycle and now it’s 32. Heupel has not had enough time to rebuild the depth to be Competive with the top teams for the entire game. When you look at UGA you see 4* and 5*’s at every position in their 2 and 3 deep. When they sub, they don’t have a drop in talent. When the Vols sub, it’s not even close to what they replaced at most positions.

Injuries have been a big issue this year that has most definitely caused the Vols some problems. The Vols have not had the same starting 22 players since the 1st game of the year. Our WR’s have been bad this year with dropping passes and can’t get separation, and our only bright spot was Bru McCoy and he goes down for the year. Then when it appears Thornton is finally getting healthy and playing well, he goes down for the year. Our running backs are great, but when UGA and Mizzou knows we can’t pass it, they have no reason to play it and just solely concentrate on the run and force us to beat them through the air and we can’t yet. Then look at the defensive side of the ball and we have starters and key backups like Arion Carter out for the year.

Expectations- When Heup took the job, most everyone just wanted a bowl game for years 1 and 2 as we all knew it was gonna take time to fix the mess he inherited. I remember everyone saying he would need 4 full recruiting classes, and need year 5 to actually tell what kind of coach we have and before we can start actually judging him. But the Heup man had other plans and it’s great. In year 2 he done the unthinkable and took the tram to a NY6 bowl game. Even after the small success we had the year before, we still wasn’t expecting 11 wins and competing for the CFP so quick. In fact most fans would have been satisfied for 9 wins and going to good bowl and keep showing improvement because they all knew just how bad the team was he took over and the depth issues we had. Now with all the success and the over achieving Heupel and this team has accomplished, everyone forgot that we still have real depth issues that are not fixed and all of sudden changed to borderline expectations after losing all the talent we did to the NFL. The Vols are not at the point YET where we can replace NFL talent the next year because of depth.

The pre season expectations for the Vols this year was 9-3 to 8-4 according to ESPN FPI. And we can still accomplish this and with a bowl game win 9 games. We have only lost 1 game this year that we was the favorite to win before the season. ESPN FPI projections had us losing to Florida, Bama, and UGA. Had us as a toss up with Kentucky but we was barely favored. Mizzou was the only game the FPI was wrong about. Many experts were wrong about Mizzou as they was picked to finish 6th in the east.

4 losses:
#1 UGA
#8 Bama
#10 Mizzou
Florida

UT is the only team in the country that has to play UF, UGA and Bama every season. Also how many teams have played 3 top 10 teams already? There’s only a hand full of teams in the entire country that can come out of this 4 game stretch with a winning record, and 2 of them are on this list. Not everyone can have Auburn, or Arkansas as their cross permanent team like Mizzou and UGA.

The last 3 years the Vols have played Bama(x3) Ole Miss, LSU, and aTm. UGA has played Bama(x1), Auburn(x3), Miss State, and Ole Miss. Mizzou has played Arkansas(x3), aTm, Auburn, and LSU. No one plays the same schedule as we do and we have to take that into consideration when we talk about expectations when Heup has been on the job less than 3 years. Imagine swapping our cross rival with Arkansas, Auburn or Miss State? What would UGA or Bama record be every year if they had to play each other every year plus other top teams. Bama and UGA both have scheduling advantages against the Vols also.

Anyways have a great night and know the future is bright and need to give Heupel the time to really build the depth. He has been recruiting well the last 2 years and let’s see what we do over the next 3 years visored to the previous 3 years.
 
#55
#55
What would UGA or Bama record be every year if they had to play each other every year plus other top teams. Bama and UGA both have scheduling advantages against the Vols also.
I looking forward to that being fixed with the divisions gone next year, the schedule balance will be similar across all sec schools. UT has had the lions share the last several years playing both. But for example UGA and Bama play each other next year during the season. And after next year I don’t think UT will have to play both UGA and Bama every year…possibly some years playing neither like Missouri’s schedule next year. It will be interesting to see what happens.
 
#57
#57
I guess is depends on what one thinks “catching them” means. If it means recruiting on their level - which is what it will take to get to their level consistently - then I say no. I don’t see UT putting together a string of 3 classes ranked number one in recruiting . . . Ever. I don’t see UT entering the top 3 in recruiting . . . For the simple reason that it looks obvious that Bama / UGA / OSU / have the top 3 spots most years.

Can we have a great team occasionally and beat them? Yes. But it will take a lot more talent than we currently have . . . And probably a generational type talent at QB.
I don't necessarily think we need to have the #1 class to compete with them, but we certainly need to be higher than 12th in the country, 6-7th in the SEC.

I'm called a "stargazer" by many, but even I'll admit there are misses/busts in every class. Some coaches develop talent better too ... unfortunately Saban and Kirby seem great at developing talent.....

I'd be happy getting into that top 5ish in the nation range for a few years. Most years, I don't think there's a big difference in the #1 class and the #4-5 class, but there's usually a huge difference in the #1 class and the #10-12th class.
 
#58
#58
We were told that NIL and the portal was gonna level the playing field. lol. It’s done no such thing. Bottom line is if you wanna win big in college football you HAVE to build your team through recruiting. And like you said, the chances of us ever catching them on the recruiting trail is slim to none.
Kirby is annoying and kind of a spaz at times, but I'll have to say he's pretty humble about his coaching abilities. When asked about how they've become so dominant he said "we go get really good players"
 
#59
#59
These numbers tell you all you need to know
Mark Richt was there 14 years. His record at Georgia was 145-51. He was a solid HC and left the program in very good shape. His last team went 9-3. Kirby took over a turn key program and has been there 7 years.

Phil Fulmer was at Tennessee 16 years. His record was 152-52. His last team went 5-7.

Lane Kiffin took over. Left a 7-5 team. There 1 year

Derek Dooley. Record at Tennessee 15-21. Left a 4-7 team. There 3 years.

Butch Jones. Record at Tennessee 34-27. Left a 4-6 team. There 5 years.

Jeremy Pruitt. Record at Tennessee. Actual / 16-19. But because of vacated wins and Covid he's credited for a 5-19 record.

We're on our 5th Athletic Director since 2010.

And some will have you believe I'm settling for mediocrity because I'm happy with the direction we're headed after *3 years.

*Still have 1 game left and a bowl game. Which even though some will tell you bowl games don't matter. They're kinda like air. Not important unless you don't have any.

That type of disfunction for that period of time doesn't get magically fixed in 3 years. It just doesn't.
 
Last edited:
#60
#60
Heard a stat somewhere about Georgia's recruiting since Kirby has been there. They average a top 3 class every year except the first year and that was like top 15. So they have had either the 1,2 or 3 recruiting class every year since he's been there.
Our roster was gutted. Look at the 3 Pruitt classes and run down the top recruits. You'll find a handful of them left and they are contributing.
2 years isn't enough to expect an even playing field.
2025 would be when I would start really looking to see where we stand against Saban (Sauron) and Smart (Saruman).
1700484026261.png
 
#61
#61
Thread says it. Are we ever really going to catch them? I don’t think so. People can talk about the portal and NIL all you want. It’s not
Leveling anything. All it’s doing is making the rich richer. I mean how long has it been since we have owned UGA? Well let’s look at facts.

Since 2000, we are 6-18 against UGA. And let’s face facts. The UGA that Heupel is going against is VASTLY better than ANY UGA team Fulmer or anyone else faced. I mean Butch beat UGA in 2015 and 2016. I mean really? That was Riches last year and Kirby’s first ever with a true FR QB. In 2016 we needed a pure luck play to beat them.

We know UGA will recruit nothing less than top 3 from here on out. So how do we overcome that?
Did we ever catch Saban? This guy has better odds....
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigOrangeTrain
#62
#62
Missouri.. A team with classes ranging in the 40"s has played them off their feet 2 years in a row. Talent helps, but it isn't everything. I don't know what motivates kids to play these days, but playing angry (and smart) helps make up for a lot of things. A really good QB closes that gap as well. I still think UGA will lose a game this year. They just haven't ran into the right team yet. It's coming though..
 
#63
#63
Missouri.. A team with classes ranging in the 40"s has played them off their feet 2 years in a row. Talent helps, but it isn't everything. I don't know what motivates kids to play these days, but playing angry (and smart) helps make up for a lot of things. A really good QB closes that gap as well. I still think UGA will lose a game this year. They just haven't ran into the right team yet. It's coming though..
Tennessee is undisciplined and simply lacks focus and toughness. Don't know any of their records, but I'd bet the farm that a service academy would look more capable and put up a better fight vs UGA than UT did. As for UGA losing, the only team that's going to beat UGA this year is UGA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nooga
#64
#64
Tennessee is undisciplined and simply lacks focus and toughness. Don't know any of their records, but I'd bet the farm that a service academy would look more capable and put up a better fight vs UGA than UT did. As for UGA losing, the only team that's going to beat UGA this year is UGA.
They can be beat. They've played well to this point but every dog has his day pun intended. Maybe Heupel is too nice. Your team kind of reflects the coach. Maybe he's too easy going and a players coach. Those traits are good for personal relations,, can also get your fired if your players take you for granted.
 
#66
#66
These numbers tell you all you need to know
And we’re trending in the right direction there. Overall roster is about 60% guys who were rated 3 star or less. 2022 class was 70% 3 stars 😬 but 2023 class was 56% three stars, and the current class is 40% three stars. Further recruiting efforts should continue to increase that bluechip ratio while also yielding more guys who turn out to be bluechips but weren’t rated as such, like Squirrel and Jeremiah Telander.
 
#67
#67
It’s not really a fair comparison. Richt was recruiting well and his record was 145-51 with a 74% win rate. We’d kill to have the same results over that time. Kirby Smart couldn’t have walked into a better situation.

We on the other hand have had constant turnover of coaches and players. I don’t think you can really objectively compare the two situations.

No one in the country is on Bama and Georgias level, unfortunately we have to play them both every year. That’s almost two guaranteed loses every year, unless we play perfect and all the breaks go our way.
We aren’t going to catch either team for at least a couple of full recruiting cycles.
 
#68
#68
We were told that NIL and the portal was gonna level the playing field. lol. It’s done no such thing. Bottom line is if you wanna win big in college football you HAVE to build your team through recruiting. And like you said, the chances of us ever catching them on the recruiting trail is slim to none.
UGA has built the core of their roster with high school recruiting, but they have also used the portal to fill it out. How different would their offense look without Lovett and RaRa? By contrast you have Clemson, whose coach has spurned both NIL and the portal and is now losing to the likes of Duke.
 
#69
#69
Not true. Yes there are more elite players closer to their campus, but Knoxville isn't in North Dakota. In the 90s we took who we wanted out of Georgia. And historically (not lately) been the better program. TN can (and has) competed with the very best. We've just been in a 15 yr rut.
We took what we wanted because we were the "hot program" then. We were winning and GA wasn't. It's not that way now.

What does TN have that GA can't match? Recent Nattys? GA. Facilities? Even. NIL money? We already have them beat and have since NIL began and they still out recruit us.

With NIL making "aTm-ing" a recruiting class possible, schools like Oregon with Nike money can, if they wished, buy all the players that can be bought every year if they wish. Having a guy with $40 billion who really likes your program means he alone could drop $100M a year for players for 10 years just to screw with the B1G and never feel it.

I see people say "it's the Jimmy's and Joe's" but Jimmy, at 280lbs and limited resources to have been developed in HS, vs Jack, at 320lbs and having been funded for his development since HS by Nike money, is not going to work.

The next step of NIL is a school that HEAVILY funds private HS "education" (read: IMG Academy on steroids with NIL deals) and essentially recruits nationwide in HS, making 16yo athletes millionaires.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Voltopia
#70
#70
You say let’s look at facts? Well let’s do exactly that when we talking about closing the talent gap.

Since 2021 UT has been gutted for what talent they did have and lost it. After Pruitt was fired UT had 35 or so players transfer, recruits de-committing, and having to vacate scholarships due to Pruitts behavior. That has been the biggest difference between UT and UGA and Bama over the last 2 years. Our starters have been as good as anyone else starters most times. But when the game gets into the 2nd half, either teams come back from being behind, or they pull away. This year we have 4 losses where the Vols were either leading or only down by 14 or less at half. 2nd half comes and our starters are worn out for having to play as much, and our rotational players are not near as good as other teams due to lack of depth.

35+28= 63 scholarship players lost due to transfers and scholarship reductions since 2021. NCAA only allows 85 scholarship players. Up till spring of last year, you could only sign 25 players per cycle and now it’s 32. Heupel has not had enough time to rebuild the depth to be Competive with the top teams for the entire game. When you look at UGA you see 4* and 5*’s at every position in their 2 and 3 deep. When they sub, they don’t have a drop in talent. When the Vols sub, it’s not even close to what they replaced at most positions.

Injuries have been a big issue this year that has most definitely caused the Vols some problems. The Vols have not had the same starting 22 players since the 1st game of the year. Our WR’s have been bad this year with dropping passes and can’t get separation, and our only bright spot was Bru McCoy and he goes down for the year. Then when it appears Thornton is finally getting healthy and playing well, he goes down for the year. Our running backs are great, but when UGA and Mizzou knows we can’t pass it, they have no reason to play it and just solely concentrate on the run and force us to beat them through the air and we can’t yet. Then look at the defensive side of the ball and we have starters and key backups like Arion Carter out for the year.

Expectations- When Heup took the job, most everyone just wanted a bowl game for years 1 and 2 as we all knew it was gonna take time to fix the mess he inherited. I remember everyone saying he would need 4 full recruiting classes, and need year 5 to actually tell what kind of coach we have and before we can start actually judging him. But the Heup man had other plans and it’s great. In year 2 he done the unthinkable and took the tram to a NY6 bowl game. Even after the small success we had the year before, we still wasn’t expecting 11 wins and competing for the CFP so quick. In fact most fans would have been satisfied for 9 wins and going to good bowl and keep showing improvement because they all knew just how bad the team was he took over and the depth issues we had. Now with all the success and the over achieving Heupel and this team has accomplished, everyone forgot that we still have real depth issues that are not fixed and all of sudden changed to borderline expectations after losing all the talent we did to the NFL. The Vols are not at the point YET where we can replace NFL talent the next year because of depth.

The pre season expectations for the Vols this year was 9-3 to 8-4 according to ESPN FPI. And we can still accomplish this and with a bowl game win 9 games. We have only lost 1 game this year that we was the favorite to win before the season. ESPN FPI projections had us losing to Florida, Bama, and UGA. Had us as a toss up with Kentucky but we was barely favored. Mizzou was the only game the FPI was wrong about. Many experts were wrong about Mizzou as they was picked to finish 6th in the east.

4 losses:
#1 UGA
#8 Bama
#10 Mizzou
Florida

UT is the only team in the country that has to play UF, UGA and Bama every season. Also how many teams have played 3 top 10 teams already? There’s only a hand full of teams in the entire country that can come out of this 4 game stretch with a winning record, and 2 of them are on this list. Not everyone can have Auburn, or Arkansas as their cross permanent team like Mizzou and UGA.

The last 3 years the Vols have played Bama(x3) Ole Miss, LSU, and aTm. UGA has played Bama(x1), Auburn(x3), Miss State, and Ole Miss. Mizzou has played Arkansas(x3), aTm, Auburn, and LSU. No one plays the same schedule as we do and we have to take that into consideration when we talk about expectations when Heup has been on the job less than 3 years. Imagine swapping our cross rival with Arkansas, Auburn or Miss State? What would UGA or Bama record be every year if they had to play each other every year plus other top teams. Bama and UGA both have scheduling advantages against the Vols also.

Anyways have a great night and know the future is bright and need to give Heupel the time to really build the depth. He has been recruiting well the last 2 years and let’s see what we do over the next 3 years visored to the previous 3 years.
I think you have a fair amount of recency bias in the post. Auburn isn’t some scrub school, they have won the West in the last 5 years and a natty in 2010. AU has had much better success than Florida over the same period. AU is no bama that we can agree, but AU has beaten bama with more frequency than anyone in the SEC. As for the last 3 years, I assume you are talking reg season but if you look at the whole schedule UGA has played bama 3x, LSU, clemson, oregon, top ten Arkansas, they also played Michigan and Ohio State, hating on UGA is what fans are supposed to do but pointing to scheduling isn’t a good argument to shortfalls.

If the argument is the vols play a tough schedule, they do but don’t act like it is tough because florida, ole miss and atm are on it, the weight of bama and uga is tough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nooga and Mtnvol80
#72
#72
It’s not really a fair comparison. Richt was recruiting well and his record was 145-51 with a 74% win rate. We’d kill to have the same results over that time. Kirby Smart couldn’t have walked into a better situation.

We on the other hand have had constant turnover of coaches and players. I don’t think you can really objectively compare the two situations.

No one in the country is on Bama and Georgias level, unfortunately we have to play them both every year. That’s almost two guaranteed loses every year, unless we play perfect and all the breaks go our way.
We aren’t going to catch either team for at least a couple of full recruiting cycles.

Agree, this is the point of my long thread about Tennessee being competitive in SEC. The sport itself has a problem when 2 programs can just hoard all of the players and basically have a major advantage going into the season.

The sport is suppose to be entertaining to fans but with 0 parity, it kind of ruins CFB. NIL might help reduce some of that as teams can now buy players but the Saban (and now Smart) stranglehold has killed a lot of the sport. The realignment was partially driven by this as well. Entire areas of the country are dialing out (like West Coast) because their teams are a non-factor.

Why watch College Football unless you are an Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, or Ohio State fan the past 13 years? They are the only teams really winning anything with the exception of LSU in 2019.
 
#73
#73
Agree, this is the point of my long thread about Tennessee being competitive in SEC. The sport itself has a problem when 2 programs can just hoard all of the players and basically have a major advantage going into the season.

The sport is suppose to be entertaining to fans but with 0 parity, it kind of ruins CFB. NIL might help reduce some of that as teams can now buy players but the Saban (and now Smart) stranglehold has killed a lot of the sport. The realignment was partially driven by this as well. Entire areas of the country are dialing out (like West Coast) because their teams are a non-factor.

Why watch College Football unless you are an Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, or Ohio State fan the past 13 years? They are the only teams really winning anything with the exception of LSU in 2019.
Exactly. NIL hasn't really changed the dynamic like everyone said it would and while the transfer portal might help, you're still taking someone else's leftovers. Maybe we have a shot with the new playoff format but if our recruiting efforts stay about what they've been, we'll be an 8-9 win team. I'm beginning to lose interest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grey_pilgrim
#74
#74
Exactly. NIL hasn't really changed the dynamic like everyone said it would and while the transfer portal might help, you're still taking someone else's leftovers. Maybe we have a shot with the new playoff format but if our recruiting efforts stay about what they've been, we'll be an 8-9 win team. I'm beginning to lose interest.

NIL will be a POSITIVE change. The sport without NIL was dying and frankly, most teams were already paying players anyways. I am pretty confident that Alabama and Saban, for example, violated a ton of NCAA rules back in 2007 and 2008 when he started hoarding in the initial great classes that were the best in CFB.
 
#75
#75
Have to recruit at a high level and recruit players away from Georgia/Alabama/OSU.

Need to get into the Midwest and pull a few Oline recruits from Iowa, Wisconsin, etc. Even Illinois and Northwestern seem to have better linemen than UT.
 

VN Store



Back
Top