Arizona Election Audit

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hUTch2002 said:
Produce the letter so it can be read
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Jeffrey Rosen testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Saturday. I would guess that they have it. I don't know if it will be made public or not. If it is made public, then your next move would probably be to start calling Jeffrey Rosen a "RINO" or a "Never Trumper", because that is how Trump's apologists always address allegations of his misconduct, whenever they are made by Republicans, such as Rosen...

... and then you will argue that since Trump didn't follow through with this strategy, there was no harm done.
 
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BowlBrother85 said:
Jeffrey Rosen testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Saturday. I would guess that they have it. I don't know if it will be made public or not. If it is made public, then your next move would probably be to start calling Jeffrey Rosen a "RINO" or a "Never Trumper", because that is how Trump's apologists always address allegations of his misconduct, whenever they are made by Republicans, such as Rosen...

... and then you will argue that since Trump didn't follow through with this strategy, there was no harm done.
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I definitely think Trump should be impeached for it.
 
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BowlBrother85 said:
That is blatantly wrong. Both impeachments concerned misconduct on the part of then-President Donald Trump.

(1) President Donald Trump should not have withheld Congressionally-authorized military aid to the Ukraine, in order to leverage the aid against their president's willingness to perform a campaign favor for him. That justified the first impeachment.

(2) President Donald Trump should not have lied to a crowd of his supporters on January 6th, by telling them that his Vice President, Mike Pence, had the power to cast aside votes from electors, who were from states which President Trump claimed to have held rigged elections. Mike Pence's role on January 6th, was nothing more than a procedural formality. That reality was brought to Trump's attention multiple times, and yet, he continued to repeat this lie. His lie was a factor in the ensuing riot, if not a direct incitement of it. That justified the 2nd impeachment.

I will also put this out there:

It has recently come to light, that on December 28th, then-President Donald Trump attempted to enlist the assistance of the acting Attorney General, Jeffrey Rosen, in his efforts to overturn the outcome of his own Presidential Election in the state of Georgia. Out of all the abuses of power, which Donald Trump engaged in as the President of the United States, this was the most egregious and potentially harmful to the country.

This flagrant abuse of the power of his office can not be allowed to stand as an established precedent for acceptable Presidential behavior, after losing a re-election bid, or it will imperil the democratic system of elections in the United States. There is no way in hell that Republicans would approve of Joe Biden asking Merrick Garland to do the same thing in December of 2024, if Biden loses his re-election.
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Congress controls spending and designates money for stuff ... a lot of it unnecessary and counter to what taxpayers would like, but that's a another story. Anyway under Trump, congress allocated funds to Ukraine, and under biden congress allocated money for the funky mortgage/rent forbearance program.

Ukraine under Trump got their money on time. Under biden, the funds for the mortgage/rent are still mostly sitting there. The weird part is that the guy who delivered on time was impeached for withholding funds and the slacker is down for his nap.
 
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AM64 said:
Congress controls spending and designates money for stuff ... a lot of it unnecessary and counter to what taxpayers would like, but that's a another story. Anyway under Trump, congress allocated funds to Ukraine, and under biden congress allocated money for the funky mortgage/rent forbearance program.

Ukraine under Trump got their money on time. Under biden, the funds for the mortgage/rent are still mostly sitting there. The weird part is that the guy who delivered on time was impeached for withholding funds and the slacker is down for his nap.
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No, they didn't... but that is irrelevant to the main point:

Donald Trump should not have used that pledged military aid as leverage in his political efforts to damage Joe Biden's 2020 presidential candidacy. It was an abuse of power.
 
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BowlBrother85 said:
No, they didn't... but that is irrelevant to the main point:

Donald Trump should not have used that pledged military aid as leverage in his political efforts to damage Joe Biden's 2020 presidential candidacy. It was an abuse of power.
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Sure they did. It was to be delivered before the end of the FY. It was. To be honest, I'd rather a lot of stuff be at the discretion of the administration - congress allocates and the administration may spend it if warranted. Seems stupid just to spend because it was in a budget rather than based on needs as they develop ... or don't. I may have money set aside in savings for items that I may replace if necessary; if they don't break, I don't replace and the money stays put ... pretty simple actually.
 
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AM64 said:
Sure they did. It was to be delivered before the end of the FY. It was. To be honest, I'd rather a lot of stuff be at the discretion of the administration - congress allocates and the administration may spend it if warranted. Seems stupid just to spend because it was in a budget rather than based on needs as they develop ... or don't. I may have money set aside in savings for items that I may replace if necessary; if they don't break, I don't replace and the money stays put ... pretty simple actually.
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The end of the fiscal year was September 30th. It wasn't delivered by then... but once again, that isn't the point. That aid should not have been leveraged against Ukraine's willingness to help Trump smear a political opponent.
 
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#4,563
AM64 said:
Sure they did. It was to be delivered before the end of the FY. It was. To be honest, I'd rather a lot of stuff be at the discretion of the administration - congress allocates and the administration may spend it if warranted. Seems stupid just to spend because it was in a budget rather than based on needs as they develop ... or don't. I may have money set aside in savings for items that I may replace if necessary; if they don't break, I don't replace and the money stays put ... pretty simple actually.
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That is the stoopid of gov. Spend it or lose it. And therin lay the whole premise of every argument on this board...if you get my drift
 
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AM64 said:
Sure they did. It was to be delivered before the end of the FY. It was. To be honest, I'd rather a lot of stuff be at the discretion of the administration - congress allocates and the administration may spend it if warranted. Seems stupid just to spend because it was in a budget rather than based on needs as they develop ... or don't. I may have money set aside in savings for items that I may replace if necessary; if they don't break, I don't replace and the money stays put ... pretty simple actually.
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I do not agree with vesting more power in the president.
 
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As I attempted to post as a thread....


I cannot find the Reinstatement Ceremony on TV. Its August 13. Anybody know what stations are carrying it?
 
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VolinWayne said:
Lol yeah whatever. A lot of your democrat leaders sure thought it needed to be addressed in 2018. I wonder what happened between now and then.
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I wasn't one of them and you cannot compare the two situations. Democrats moved on after the loss and acknowledged the loss. And I don't recall you saying anything about fixing the broken system when your guy won.
 
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ClearwaterVol said:
I wasn't one of them and you cannot compare the two situations. Democrats moved on after the loss and acknowledged the loss. And I don't recall you saying anything about fixing the broken system when your guy won.
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Trump was elected in 2016 and 2 years later in 2018 they were warning against our election systems. On top of that they literally made up stuff so they could investigate. Yeah they really know how to move on.
 
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VolinWayne said:
Trump was elected in 2016 and 2 years later in 2018 they were warning against our election systems. On top of that they literally made up stuff so they could investigate. Yeah they really know how to move on.
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Are you telling me that there was anything comparing to the magnitude of this dog and pony show? Hillary gave her concession speech before noon the day after the election in 2016. "Donald Trump is going to be our president," Clinton said during her concession speech the morning of Nov. 9. "We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead. Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power. And we don’t just respect that, we cherish it." The DNC chair congratulated Trump. Obama congratulated Trump and invited him to the White House two days after the election. Don't try to rewrite history. Trump has behaved despicably through all of this process. His concession speech was given after he sent his supporters to the Capitol to try and stop the certification of the election.
 
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ClearwaterVol said:
Are you telling me that there was anything comparing to the magnitude of this dog and pony show? Hillary gave her concession speech before noon the day after the election in 2016. "Donald Trump is going to be our president," Clinton said during her concession speech the morning of Nov. 9. "We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead. Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power. And we don’t just respect that, we cherish it." The DNC chair congratulated Trump. Obama congratulated Trump and invited him to the White House two days after the election. Don't try to rewrite history. Trump has behaved despicably through all of this process. His concession speech was given after he sent his supporters to the Capitol to try and stop the certification of the election.
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VolinWayne said:
they were warning against our election systems
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VolinWayne said:
they literally made up stuff so they could investigate
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VolinWayne said:
they really know how to move on
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Who are "they"? You are being short on specifics.

You are trying to play "what-about-ism" here, but there just isn't anything in American history which closely parallels President Donald Trump's conduct, from the day a legally chosen set of electors met to cast their votes for President on December 14th, and the day that Joe Biden was sworn in as Trump's successor on January 20th.
 
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