Arizona Election Audit

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#1,426
AM64 said:
At the end of the election, about half the population doesn't care. Their guy won, so don't rock the boat. They accuse the other half of being sore losers. The country is the worse for it because legitimate questions are never really investigated and answered; we need to do better.
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The problem is that legitimate questions are rarely even asked. The 2020 Trump Campaign has made blanket allegations of fraud and cheating, which are never specific in detail. Listen to Trump's phone call with Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger. Trump is incredibly vague with his accusations. He says things like "Something happened with Stacey Abrams" but never provides specifics of what the hell he is talking about. Trump follows that up with "I just need you to find the votes" (paraphrasing). What the hell was Raffensperger supposed to do with that?
 
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BowlBrother85 said:
Election auditing is routine... and the results in Arizona have already been through two of them. The Big Four accounting firms (Ernst & Young, PwC, Deloitte, KPMG) have all performed audits of elections. I can't believe that anyone would defend Cyber Ninjas being hired for this.

I frequently see the Republican argument that "People who are confident that the results are valid, should not care if those results are audited".

Why didn't this logic apply to the 2000 Presidential Election? Republicans fought like hell from having the results from the state of Florida audited, and that was a much closer election than the results currently being audited in Arizona... and the outcome of the entire 2000 Presidential Election hung in the balance on that one state - which was decided by only 568 votes. An audit in Florida in December of 2000 really could have changed the outcome of the whole election. It was possible.
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The previous audits consisted of auditing 2% of the ballots. Those weren't real audits. The previous audits also did not live stream the audit with over 15 cameras. The Republicans in Arizona are pulling off the most comprehensive and thorough audit ever
 
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#1,429
AM64 said:
Probably not because I don't recall participating in any discussions about elections before. But going back to the Bush/Gore election, I certainly didn't have a problem with all the fanfare that went on there. Again to me that brought up a systemic problem that should never have happened and needed to be addressed to insure it never happened again. It's not the results that are important (although we may pay dearly for bad choices); it is the process, the process, the process - always make sure the process works and is untainted. Always address all the issues in full with complete honesty. I will never accept election software that's labeled "proprietary" - that's simply stupid - people have been adding 1's for years; it's entry level computer programming at best. There are way too many issues from registration right through vote counting; it's frankly embarrassing that this country doesn't have a more professional system.
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Bush / Gore was close. Trump / Biden wasn't. Trump lost by 8 million freaking votes.
 
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VolinWayne said:
The previous audits consisted of auditing 2% of the ballots. Those weren't real audits. The previous audits also did not live stream the audit with over 15 cameras. The Republicans in Arizona are pulling off the most comprehensive and thorough audit ever
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... by hiring a company to assist in the audit, who has never had the responsibility of auditing an election before (at any level of government)? Whatever you say, Hoss!

And why don't Republicans in the Arizona State Legislature want there to be federal monitors present? To use your logic... what do they have to hide?
 
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#1,434
AM64 said:
Rolling, unannounced audits should be a part of any election process. If the people running the election know a team of inspectors could walk in the door any time to watch, verify, and/or audit - and there are real penalties, it keeps people focused on doing things right. Unfortunately election commissions have never operated in that kind of environment, and the sloth taking place shows it.
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I like it!!!
 
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VolinWayne said:
When you send in high profile attorneys disguised as normal citizens and media. Yeah I see nothing fishy about thay at all
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Who would you expect to serve as a "federal monitor"? I would expect a federal monitor to be an FBI agent with a background in accounting... most likely a CPA, who has experience with working for a Big 4 Accounting firm, or an attorney who is familiar with election law.
 
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NEO said:
I like it!!!
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But the auditors could/would be partisan as well. If the dang system was not so frekin complicated, we would not need auditors at all IMO. Like the tax code. I figure Iraqis have a better system than ours.
 
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BowlBrother85 said:
Who would you expect to serve as a "federal monitor"? I would expect a federal monitor to be an FBI agent with a background in accounting... most likely a CPA, who has experience with working for a Big 4 Accounting firm, or an attorney who is familiar with election law.
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A CPA? lol.
 
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Orangeburst said:
A CPA? lol.
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Yes. I have a good friend who is an FBI agent who is a CPA. He worked for Arthur Anderson in Greensboro, NC - before they became known as Grant Thornton after the Enron scandal. He has served as a monitor for an election recount.
 
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BowlBrother85 said:
At least in terms of the audit taking place in Arizona... we will never know if this is true, because they are not all "proven to be absolutely unbiased". It is way too easy to accuse "Cyber Ninjas Inc." of partisanship, and that really does taint the whole operation. They should not be a part of this, if the goal is to reassure the American people that this was a fair election with valid results. It is amazing that some of you will argue that point.
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So basically you’re saying that everyone hired that thought there was no fraud before beginning the audit, and I’m betting that most of the “audits” done in all states to this point have fit this description, were partisan hacks not to be trusted. Beautiful! There’s always another side to the coin BB. Cue insults in 3...2...1...
 
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hUTch2002 said:
So basically you’re saying that everyone hired that thought there was no fraud before beginning the audit, and I’m betting that most of the “audits” done in all states to this point have fit this description, were partisan hacks not to be trusted. Beautiful! There’s always another side to the coin BB. Cue insults in 3...2...1...
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That isn't what I said at all. Someone like Doug Logan, who has made a conclusive determination of the outcome, before the audit even began should not be a part of the audit. Nor should someone who has a clear conflict of interest with an attorney for one of the campaigns (and Logan has posted provably false claims about Dominion on Sidney Powell's website, which she is now being sued for) be a part of the audit. Finally, someone with zero experience in auditing elections, should not be a part of an audit which involves the Presidential Election.

I can't believe how many of you are defending and justifying the hiring of Cyber Ninjas. It is embarrassing to read. This is so stupid. They should not have been hired. Period.
 
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#1,441
BowlBrother85 said:
Yes. I have a good friend who is an FBI agent who is a CPA. He worked for Arthur Anderson - before they became known as Grant Thornton. He has served as a monitor for an election recount.
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You have some validity after thought as it has to do with accredidation. My Father has had a firm for going on 50 years and has been present at meetings I thought out of sphere. Not sure they would be of help into the science of ballot markings or chads or whatnot.
 
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USAFgolferVol said:
Your lengthy posts are far more compelling than NC Fisher's! I am able see your point and maybe, meld into mine. I truly believe there are major problems. Voting systems should be uniform across the country. There shouldn't be limited access. Flaws in vote counts, and gerrymandering, must be eliminated
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Thank you; brevity while trying to make a point can be difficult. In all honesty we're seeing more of the process than we used to, and it looks disturbing. Perhaps it's just chaotic by nature, and we haven't seen it, but I don't like what I've seen. My job was testing and analysis of problems in nuclear plants, and my one big goal every time was to find the fault so it could be corrected. To me, doing that was personal, and there were no shortcuts or politically correct solutions - just the root cause.
 
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BigOrangeTrain said:
And U would have supported that. So what’s the problem here? I mean look at this thread. Liberals, not saying you specifically, have posted in here religiously about how terrible and ridiculous it is. But why?

We all know nothing can nor will be done. Even if widespread fraud were to found, nothing would be done about it. So why the out rage over this audit? Let it play out and after nothing comes of it, just move on.
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I think there is less confidence that the audit will be carried out appropriately than that the election was legitimate.
 
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#1,446
BowlBrother85 said:
That isn't what I said at all. Someone like Doug Logan, who has made a conclusive determination of the outcome, before the audit even began should not be a part of the audit. Nor should someone who has a clear conflict of interest with an attorney for one of the campaigns (and Logan has posted provably false claims about Dominion on Sidney Powell's website, which she is now being sued for) be a part of the audit. Finally, someone with zero experience in auditing elections, should not be a part of an audit which involves the Presidential Election.

I can't believe how many of you are defending and justifying the hiring of Cyber Ninjas. It is embarrassing to read. This is so stupid. They should not have been hired. Period.
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I still tend to agree with you about that particular company. The name doesn't promote legitimacy or professionalism, but you still can't judge a book by its cover. When you look at things, very few are unbiased from the start - for example, the election commissions themselves. How did those people get the job - selected by politicians in office or elected themselves - in which case they were probably declared one party or the other. Look at judges - people who supposedly hand down unbiased decisions. Yet, those same judges were either political appointees or ran for office - generally with a political party affiliation and with financial backing. The only solution is oversight and unannounced inspections with consequences that may look at specific items or everything - that keeps people honest even if they have a political bias.
 
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Tastylicks said:
And then after that audit, you'll want another. And another and another and another...
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All I want is validation of mine and every vote that was cast for his past and future election.
2020 is over. A big portion of the population believe their are issues in the election process. Not healthy for our republic.
 
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Orangeburst said:
A comprehensive audit should be considered nothing but healthy. Now The Who and how can be debated forever.
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Republicans sure fought like hell from having a comprehensive audit in 2000. For those of us who remember that, it makes this line hard to swallow now. A comprehensive audit in the state of Florida really could have changed the outcome of the entire election... unlike what is going on now in Arizona.
Also, does anyone remember what Trump supporters were chanting at the TCF Center in Detroit the day after the election? It was "Stop the Count!" Republicans even filed suit to try and stop votes from being counted because Trump had the lead, but Biden was quickly gaining. So Republicans wanted to keep counting votes in states where Biden had a lead, but they also wanted to stop votes from being counted in states where Trump had a lead and Biden was closing. That doesn't sound like they were working in the best interest of democracy to me. They just wanted to do whatever was necessary to win.
 
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