Arizona Election Audit

#1,377
#1,377
BowlBrother85 said:
The purpose of this particular audit must completely be about driving public opinion, because the results of the audit will not change the outcome of the 2020 Presidential election, or for that matter, even change that Arizona's 11 electoral college votes went to Joe Biden. In this case, public perception is everything. So, the presence of an openly biased contributor does taint the whole operation. It is too easy to portray Cyber Ninjas as being biased, and therefore this audit will not change anyone's mind. People who believe the election was rigged against Trump, will still believe it... and people who believe that the results were valid, will still believe that. It's a waste of time.
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First off, and I've said this before (in this thread, too, I think), "Cyber Ninjas" is a stupid name; I'd be the first to agree that it completely destroys any sense of professionalism. It sounds more like a term used in the hacker world, but then I wouldn't mind seeing a hacker's view of election systems. I'd bet they are a lot less secure than cracked up to be - A LOT LESS.

As far as the purpose, we tend to see this differently. You are right; it isn't going to set aside an election - that's done. Biden won't get an asterisk beside his name pointing out his win was a fluke even if proven. This doesn't even rise to the level of "grudge match" because it won't affect the election - we don't do the "no confidence" thing and a do over, which sometimes might be a good idea ... but likely not in our hyper-partisan political arena. What I want (and several others here say the same) is a thorough look at our election system with an intent to fix flaws. We have a very bad habit of picking up on things that are wrong during elections and then ignoring them just to screech about them again the next time. We need to stop that BS, figure out if there is a problem, and address it. That requires literally picking the current one apart to see what's right and what's wrong, and a lot of us believe there's plenty wrong.

It just doesn't have anything to do with Trump. A lot of us who are offended by what looks to be faulty equipment and processes just may have preferred Trump as the winner. A flawed system is a flawed system - period; we're better than this. You cannot have negative vote counts, and pretend it never happened or that it's normal - that's the kind of thing that has people in an uproar.
 
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#1,379
#1,379
AM64 said:
First off, and I've said this before (in this thread, too, I think), "Cyber Ninjas" is a stupid name; I'd be the first to agree that it completely destroys any sense of professionalism. It sounds more like a term used in the hacker world, but then I wouldn't mind seeing a hacker's view of election systems. I'd bet they are a lot less secure than cracked up to be - A LOT LESS.

As far as the purpose, we tend to see this differently. You are right; it isn't going to set aside an election - that's done. Biden won't get an asterisk beside his name pointing out his win was a fluke even if proven. This doesn't even rise to the level of "grudge match" because it won't affect the election - we don't do the "no confidence" thing and a do over, which sometimes might be a good idea ... but likely not in our hyper-partisan political arena. What I want (and several others here say the same) is a thorough look at our election system with an intent to fix flaws. We have a very bad habit of picking up on things that are wrong during elections and then ignoring them just to screech about them again the next time. We need to stop that BS, figure out if there is a problem, and address it. That requires literally picking the current one apart to see what's right and what's wrong, and a lot of us believe there's plenty wrong.

It just doesn't have anything to do with Trump. A lot of us who are offended by what looks to be faulty equipment and processes just may have preferred Trump as the winner. A flawed system is a flawed system - period; we're better than this. You cannot have negative vote counts, and pretend it never happened or that it's normal - that's the kind of thing that has people in an uproar.
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Very well said.
 
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#1,382
#1,382
AM64 said:
First off, and I've said this before (in this thread, too, I think), "Cyber Ninjas" is a stupid name; I'd be the first to agree that it completely destroys any sense of professionalism. It sounds more like a term used in the hacker world, but then I wouldn't mind seeing a hacker's view of election systems. I'd bet they are a lot less secure than cracked up to be - A LOT LESS.

As far as the purpose, we tend to see this differently. You are right; it isn't going to set aside an election - that's done. Biden won't get an asterisk beside his name pointing out his win was a fluke even if proven. This doesn't even rise to the level of "grudge match" because it won't affect the election - we don't do the "no confidence" thing and a do over, which sometimes might be a good idea ... but likely not in our hyper-partisan political arena. What I want (and several others here say the same) is a thorough look at our election system with an intent to fix flaws. We have a very bad habit of picking up on things that are wrong during elections and then ignoring them just to screech about them again the next time. We need to stop that BS, figure out if there is a problem, and address it. That requires literally picking the current one apart to see what's right and what's wrong, and a lot of us believe there's plenty wrong.

It just doesn't have anything to do with Trump. A lot of us who are offended by what looks to be faulty equipment and processes just may have preferred Trump as the winner. A flawed system is a flawed system - period; we're better than this. You cannot have negative vote counts, and pretend it never happened or that it's normal - that's the kind of thing that has people in an uproar.
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We should be auditing others as well, since it's not about Trump and his claims before and after the 2016 and 2020 Presidential elections
 
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#1,384
#1,384
Tastylicks said:
He wasn't talking any intermediaries. Trump was addressing Russia and China directly
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He also wasn't talking about paying for the information.
I asked if it was okay to pay for it though and you said " Hell NO !!!". My question was , what if you used an intermediary?
 
#1,392
#1,392
NCFisher said:
@Tastylicks
V
V
And the paying customer was the opposition candidate and the party's national committee, thus implicating the entire party apparatus?

I'll answer for you: "OH HELL YES!"
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blah blah blah... you should consider worshipping our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ instead of Donald Trump hahaaaa
 
#1,394
#1,394
NCFisher said:
Audit both or any state election that Dems want; I'm good with any audit matching paper to counting machine tally.
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The repubs could have done the same in 2016, they just didn't seem overly concerned. Now had Hillary won, you can bet your ass we would have seen the same thing then we are seeing now.
 
#1,395
#1,395
NCFisher said:
Audit both or any state election that Dems want; I'm good with any audit matching paper to counting machine tally.
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I didn't say anything about Dems. So it's tribal for you? It shouldn't be about party politics. If we're really searching for the truth, an audit should be brought by apolitical organizations
 
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#1,398
#1,398
luthervol said:
The repubs could have done the same in 2016, they just didn't seem overly concerned. Now had Hillary won, you can bet your ass we would have seen the same thing then we are seeing now.
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And I would have supported that. So what’s the problem here? I mean look at this thread. Liberals, not saying you specifically, have posted in here religiously about how terrible and ridiculous it is. But why?

We all know nothing can nor will be done. Even if widespread fraud were to found, nothing would be done about it. So why the out rage over this audit? Let it play out and after nothing comes of it, just move on.
 
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#1,400
#1,400
luthervol said:
The repubs could have done the same in 2016, they just didn't seem overly concerned. Now had Hillary won, you can bet your ass we would have seen the same thing then we are seeing now.
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I doubt it unless we also had about 300 Republican lawsuits preceding the election to illegally usurp the authority of state legislatures to determine how elections are conducted, in violation of state law and the federal constitution. If Democrats openly do that, why should it be assumed they'd not furtively do so? With both Democrats and Republicans voicing concerns about electronic voting for at least a decade or more, why should they be considered secure? If Trump truly is - as at least 2/3rds of Democrats believe - illegitimate and placed into office by Russia, WTF wouldn't they nudge the needle? If he's actually a Hitleresque authoritarian, how could you NOT?

This study from MIT states electronic voting and mail ballots are ripe for fraud potential, aside from a host of security issues that haven't been addressed by Republicans or Democrats. http://electionlab.mit.edu/sites/default/files/2019-06/Election-Auditing-Key-Issues-Perspectives.pdf

No one knows how secure the elections are, especially people who authoritatively state they are.
 
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