athiests and agnostics know more about religion than churchgoers

#228
#228
bamacheats said:
Anyone who believes Adam & Eve have any shot at redemption is exponentially more illogical than even utgibbs and his Fulmerphilia. What a colossal insult to the value of Christ's sacrifice.
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Not if Christ's sacrifice was to offer redemption to all sinners.

To answer your initial question - I have no idea for sure but my guess would be if by faith they repented of their sin and whatnot then they would be in heaven.
 
#229
#229
tigervol9802 said:
Not if Christ's sacrifice was to offer redemption to all sinners.

To answer your initial question - I have no idea for sure but my guess would be if by faith they repented of their sin and whatnot then they would be in heaven.
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They can't repent. They were created perfect (WITHOUT sin) and WILLFULLY sinned after having been properly warned. The bible is clear that there is no sacrifice for willful sinners.
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#230
#230
bamacheats said:
They can't repent. They were created perfect (WITHOUT sin) and WILLFULLY sinned after having been properly warned. The bible is clear that there is no sacrifice for willful sinners.
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You really might want to re-research that section from Hebrews (I'm pretty sure) you are referring to.

With that said, I'm tired of discussing this with you.

See you folks when I get back from Red Stick. :hi:
 
#232
#232
CSpindizzy said:
Where do you get this from exactly?
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Your concept of sheol where people are awaiting judgement. I get that but that means that they are just dead, nonexistent, until resurrected. Problem is at every funeral I hear "that they are in heaven now". Which is it? Are they all mistaken and they are dead, waiting on heaven? Or do they go straight to heaven? Assuming there is no other possibility.
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#233
#233
bamacheats said:
They can't repent. They were created perfect (WITHOUT sin) and WILLFULLY sinned after having been properly warned. The bible is clear that there is no sacrifice for willful sinners.
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Thanks Adam for Original Sin.
 
#234
#234
CSpindizzy said:
Close minded means intolerant.

Here's an apocalypse for you....look over the past 10 years and tell me which conference has won the most titles? When you line the best of the conferences up against each other what do you get? Look at the draftees coming out of each conference. Who turns out the talent?

Wow. A debate fit for another forum finds its way into here...stranger things have happened.
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Nonsense. Facts and evidence mean nothing in these discussions. Faith and personal intuitions run supreme.
 
#235
#235
rjd970 said:
Nonsense. Facts and evidence mean nothing in these discussions. Faith and personal intuitions run supreme.
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To me faith only comes with evidence. Hope is minus evidence. It's been my experience that the majority who claim to have faith in reality just hope because they can provide no evidence for what they hope other than its just common opinion or that's what their daddy told them.
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#237
#237
Worshiped... trust and obeyed... what's the difference?

There are only two beings who created me, and there are only two beings that deserve my unconditional trust and obedience.

Neither are mentioned in holy text, and both actually possess a tangible existence.

Anyway, I'm not dead-set enough to be an atheist... there's just more proof for a godless universe than there is for a universe created by a higher power. However, there's no resounding proof/answer for either argument. Maybe I lack faith in things I cannot touch or see... maybe I have more respect for science than religion, but I'm rambling. I guess the big thing to take away from this thread is to not only know what YOU believe, but take the time to learn about what you don't believe.

I scored a 14/15 on that quiz, by the way... I 50/50 guessed the last one, and I missed the one about reading Biblical text in class for educational purposes (I went to a religious high school, so I didn't really know the functions of a public school).
 
#238
#238
bamacheats said:
Anyone who believes Adam & Eve have any shot at redemption is exponentially more illogical than even utgibbs and his Fulmerphilia. What a colossal insult to the value of Christ's sacrifice.
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At what school of theology did you study??



bamacheats said:
They can't repent. They were created perfect (WITHOUT sin) and WILLFULLY sinned after having been properly warned. The bible is clear that there is no sacrifice for willful sinners.
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It could be just me but you seem to have a rather shallow perception of God's grace.




overseasorange2 said:
As usual it was the woman's(Eve) fault:)
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So have you heard of the feminist's version of the Garden of Eden??

First God created Eve and asked her what she thought.

She said; "I am perfect....... except maybe for the third boob, I think two would be enough."

So God reached out and took the thrird boob and then asked again what she thought of herself.

She replied; "I AM PERFECT NOW, but what are you going to do with the useless boob?"

And God created man.
 
#239
#239
DinkinFlicka said:
Worshiped... trust and obeyed... what's the difference?

There are only two beings who created me, and there are only two beings that deserve my unconditional trust and obedience.

Neither are mentioned in holy text, and both actually possess a tangible existence.

Anyway, I'm not dead-set enough to be an atheist... there's just more proof for a godless universe than there is for a universe created by a higher power. However, there's no resounding proof/answer for either argument. Maybe I lack faith in things I cannot touch or see... maybe I have more respect for science than religion, but I'm rambling. I guess the big thing to take away from this thread is to not only know what YOU believe, but take the time to learn about what you don't believe.

I scored a 14/15 on that quiz, by the way... I 50/50 guessed the last one, and I missed the one about reading Biblical text in class for educational purposes (I went to a religious high school, so I didn't really know the functions of a public school).
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I only got only 13 correct, missing both 14 and 15.

Missing 14 was a brain glitch, I knew better but recalled having the concept of nirvanna first explained to me by a hindu, I just didn't think the question through.

On 15 my thinking may have been clouded by the recent occurance of the denial of a visa the the evngelist from New Zealand and some of his detractors claim he is too close to Finney. At any rate I question why our state department would deny him a visa while granting houndreds, if not thousands of visas to moslem imams who preach the most vile form of wahibbi islam.

Then too, being neither catholic or protestant, I'm not up so much on that history.

Considereing your ramblings, it seems to me that anyone with a truly open mind can't completely rule out the possibility of there being a spiritual realm that can't be explained in physical terms.

Personally I believe prayer can be the door to that realm, so I always suggest that anyone try honest prayer, if nothing happens, then what have you lost, if something does happen then you may gain more than you can imagine. :)
 
#241
#241
gsvol said:
I only got only 13 correct, missing both 14 and 15.

Missing 14 was a brain glitch, I knew better but recalled having the concept of nirvanna first explained to me by a hindu, I just didn't think the question through.

On 15 my thinking may have been clouded by the recent occurance of the denial of a visa the the evngelist from New Zealand and some of his detractors claim he is too close to Finney. At any rate I question why our state department would deny him a visa while granting houndreds, if not thousands of visas to moslem imams who preach the most vile form of wahibbi islam.

Then too, being neither catholic or protestant, I'm not up so much on that history.

Considereing your ramblings, it seems to me that anyone with a truly open mind can't completely rule out the possibility of there being a spiritual realm that can't be explained in physical terms.

Personally I believe prayer can be the door to that realm, so I always suggest that anyone try honest prayer, if nothing happens, then what have you lost, if something does happen then you may gain more than you can imagine. :)
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Oh god... I think we're having a non-volatile discussion. I'm gonna take a deep breath.

Okay...

touching on not ruling out the spiritual realm... I see what you're saying. It's why I think anyone who says they are 100% atheist is lying to themselves... just as any religious folks who completely rule out the possibility of being wrong are simply afraid of the dark truth that this life is all one has. Ignorance goes both ways. The main point here is that none of us know the answer because it has yet to be uncovered, therefore we should always keep our minds open, which is why I've studied religion as much as I have (both in school and on my own accord... I'm a curious soul).

I was only semi-sure about question 15 because I learned that at some point in high school... it was definitely a doozy.

As far as prayer... I myself have tried meditation. Specifically, I've used the method of chanting the name of god relentlessly until one briefly realizes god. I myself have done so multiple times for as long as 2 hours and never attained that realization. It is why I am convinced that I lack the necessary faith to be spiritual.

I have opened my mind to the concept of reincarnation more than any other religious facet strictly because I've experienced deja vu a great deal throughout my 21 years. If you ever take the time to look into the links between deja vu and reincarnation, you'll find it quite fascinating.

finally, in response to your inquiry about what one loses in devoting themselves to a deity... it goes back to what I said. If one follows a certain belief strictly because of the "might as well" factor, then what does that say about the strength of a person's faith? The vibe I get from it is fear. However, to answer your question... one would lose a great deal of time and energy in their (possible) one and only life if they were wrong. The way I see it, I've got another 50 or 60 years to experience the world; probably less. I'd like to use those years absorbing everything in the world around me without having to worry about the sins I commit or the sulfuric pits I'll burn in for taking drugs, committing adultry/premarital sex, lying for self-gain, or whatever trouble I've managed/will manage to get myself into.

Basically, I really hate the thought of answering to some celestial being and being punished for simply spending my life having fun.
 
#242
#242
gsvol said:
At what school of theology did you study??





It could be just me but you seem to have a rather shallow perception of God's grace.
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Actually you seem to be completely ignorant of the value and purpose of the ransom.

And as to your "Theological school" question, the hypocritical Pharisees and Saducees asked the same of Jesus' apostles. The only thing taught at theological schools are traditions of men and pagan customs adopted by "christians" such as the upcoming Halloween which is so overtly demonic I can't believe anyone who follows Christ can find it harmless.

No matter what anyone teaches you, parents, pastors, preachers, etc., its irresponsible to blindly believe it and not prove it to yourself.
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#243
#243
bamacheats said:
No matter what anyone teaches you, parents, pastors, preachers, etc., its irresponsible to blindly believe it and not prove it to yourself.
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+1

If everyone simply took a second to think for themselves, the world would be in a much better place right now. Sure, I'll listen to men and women of great wisdom, but I'll pursue what they teach for myself and decide if it's really for me or if it sounds logical.
 
#244
#244
bamacheats said:
Actually you seem to be completely ignorant of the value and purpose of the ransom.

And as to your "Theological school" question, the hypocritical Pharisees and Saducees asked the same of Jesus' apostles. The only thing taught at theological schools are traditions of men and pagan customs adopted by "christians" such as the upcoming Halloween which is so overtly demonic I can't believe anyone who follows Christ can find it harmless.

No matter what anyone teaches you, parents, pastors, preachers, etc., its irresponsible to blindly believe it and not prove it to yourself.
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You should really study the "Christian" faith more because there are several of us that don't recognize Halloween, Christmas, Easter Bunny, etc. and understand they are exactly as you say they are.

I enjoy Christmas, btw, but not as a celebration for Christ. His birth, death, and resurrection are to remembered daily.
 
#245
#245
ridethelightening said:
Dead. Sin is sin, one isn't greater than another or more/less acceptable than another. Pretty sure Adam and Eve didn't die right after they sinned, so they had time to atone for it.
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Not true. There is unforgivable sin. We have ability for atonement because we battle to overcome inherited sin. Adam didn't. He was without sin. He overtly, willingly, conscientiously, without regard for God, blatantly disobeyed, knowing it came with a death sentence. God didn't say that he would be destroyed immediately, he said he would die in "that day" he ate from it. The Hebrew language expression used didn't mean a 24 hour period, it referred to a general time period that would be known by context. Same reason these idiot "creationists" believe Earth is 6000 years old when evidence from stars light prove without doubt its been here multi-million years at least. Time is a creation of God, he is not governed by it, he governs it, he's especially not bound by 24 hour time periods since Earth is not his domain.
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#246
#246
bamacheats said:
Not true. There is unforgivable sin. We have ability for atonement because we battle to overcome inherited sin. Adam didn't. He was without sin. He overtly, willingly, conscientiously, without regard for God, blatantly disobeyed, knowing it came with a death sentence. God didn't say that he would be destroyed immediately, he said he would die in "that day" he ate from it. The Hebrew language expression used didn't mean a 24 hour period, it referred to a general time period that would be known by context. Same reason these idiot "creationists" believe Earth is 6000 years old when evidence from stars light prove without doubt its been here multi-million years at least. Time is a creation of God, he is not governed by it, he governs it, he's especially not bound by 24 hour time periods since Earth is not his domain.
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Where do you get this? The only sin that can not be forgiven is one that is not asked forgiveness for
 
#247
#247
ridethelightening said:
You should really study the "Christian" faith more because there are several of us that don't recognize Halloween, Christmas, Easter Bunny, etc. and understand they are exactly as you say they are.

I enjoy Christmas, btw, but not as a celebration for Christ. His birth, death, and resurrection are to remembered daily.
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"several" maybe, but still most who are Christian blindly celebrate because "everyone else is doing it"

I don't allow my girls to celebrate Halloween because I find it demonic. If they grow up and find evidence to prove otherwise then that's a decision I'll respect even if I still don't agree.
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#248
#248
ridethelightening said:
Where do you get this? The only sin that can not be forgiven is one that is not asked forgiveness for
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Do you understand why a ransom was needed in the first place?

If Adam, who was created holy, can be forgiven than so can Satan who at first was holy.
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#250
#250
bamacheats said:
Do you understand why a ransom was needed in the first place?

If Adam, who was created holy, can be forgiven than so can Satan who at first was holy.
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Let me edit my response. I meant to anyways. The only unforgivable sin BY A BELIEVER is one not asked forgiveness for. Obviously, a non-believer denies Christ which is also unforgivable.

So I wasn't created holy? You? Anybody? Just Adam and Eve came on this earth holy?
 
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