Athletes in favor of gay marriage rights

#51
#51
Rasputin_Vol said:
There are dead Jews and blacks are rolling over in their graves right now...

Persecution? Really?
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If you want to ignore the thousands of dead gays that were killed for their orientation, have at it. Don't expect me not to comment on it, though.
 
#52
#52
VOLatile said:
I'm not talking about gay marriage right now, I'm talking about acceptance and tolerance. The people that have been murdered because they are gay or ridiculed so much that they took their own lives.
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I wonder if you shed any tears for the families that are affected by jackbooting gov't thugs coming in and breaking up their happy homes because you have a marriage between one man and more than one woman?
 
#53
#53
JTrainDavis said:
Not nearly on comparable levels.
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Being dragged to death or left to die of exposure tied to a fence post is not comparable levels. Having a history of being systematically murdered by Nazis and neonazis just doesn't cut the mustard.

And even still, they are seen as not being on the same level as a heterosexual in terms of social standing.
 
#54
#54
IPorange said:
And even still, they are seen as not being on the same level as a heterosexual in terms of social standing.
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Nor are hillbillies or any number of subgroups. Hell, any number of subgroups of society treat other subgroups this way in terms of social standing.
 
#55
#55
Rasputin_Vol said:
I wonder if you shed any tears for the families that are affected by jackbooting gov't thugs coming in and breaking up their happy homes because you have a marriage between one man and more than one woman?
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I do think that is despicable, when all parties involved were consenting adults. It's still not quite the same as not being allowed to marry even one partner of your choosing.
 
#57
#57
IPorange said:
I do think that is despicable, when all parties involved were consenting adults. It's still not quite the same as not being allowed to marry even one partner of your choosing.
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Why not? Consenting adults are just that, regardless of creed or orientation, are they not?
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#58
#58
JTrainDavis said:
Why not? Consenting adults are just that, regardless of creed or orientation, are they not?
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Why not what? I'm saying I think it's despicable for the feds to bust up polygamous families, when they're all consenting adults.
 
#59
#59
The wording of your previous statement, that polygamists being forced to remain monogamous was different then not letting homos get married.
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#60
#60
IPorange said:
Hillbillies aren't allowed to get married?
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well we keep shifting what we are talking about from marriage to murder to suicide to being ostracized.

my point stands - persecution is an overstatement of the gay marriage situation.
 
#62
#62
volinbham said:
So would you describe wannabe polygamists as persecuted?
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I would if there were derogatory slurs referring to them, a history of murder and physical violence against them by all walks of life, etc. You know. Like... gays, for instance.
 
#63
#63
JTrainDavis said:
The wording of your previous statement, that polygamists being forced to remain monogamous was different then not letting homos get married.
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A polygamist is allowed to at least marry one partner. Gays are not. Therefore, it is to a degree less restricting. Also, unlike with polygamists (and this is partly a response to you as well B'ham), the anti-gay marriage is born directly out of a tradition of persecution, of viewing gays as degenerates or evil. It is an extension of it. It's no different than the "separate but equal" BS of the past. I know that statement is sure to rile up many including Rasputin, but the parallel is there nonetheless.
 
#64
#64
IPorange said:
I would if there were derogatory slurs referring to them, a history of murder and physical violence against them by all walks of life, etc. You know. Like... gays, for instance.
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What I meant is do you believe that 3 (or 4 or 5) people who want to get married but are denied legally are being persecuted by the government?
 
#66
#66
IPorange said:
A polygamist is allowed to at least marry one partner. Gays are not. Therefore, it is to a degree less restricting. Also, unlike with polygamists (and this is partly a response to you as well B'ham), the anti-gay marriage is born directly out of a tradition of persecution, of viewing gays as degenerates or evil. It is an extension of it. It's no different than the "separate but equal" BS of the past. I know that statement is sure to rile up many including Rasputin, but the parallel is there nonetheless.
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The fact that gays (and polygamists for that matter) have been persecuted doesn't make the marriage denial in itself persecution.
 
#68
#68
volinbham said:
The fact that gays (and polygamists for that matter) have been persecuted doesn't make the marriage denial in itself persecution.
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I disagree, as it is 1) an extension and intellectual successor to those past ideas and 2) has no tangible effect on other parties not directly involved.

Also, I think being sent to prison is definitely textbook persecution, which occurs with polygamists.
 
#69
#69
IPorange said:
I disagree, as it is 1) an extension and intellectual successor to those past ideas and 2) has no tangible effect on other parties not directly involved.

Also, I think being sent to prison is definitely textbook persecution, which occurs with polygamists.
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Certainly polygamists are subject to worse consequences from their actions than gays.

Of the two, I think imprisonment or criminal prosecution for polygamy is much closer to persecution.

So under your view anyone not supporting gay marriage or polygamy is persecuting those parties.

I suppose if a gay person supported gay marriage but not polygamy then they are persecuting polygamists all while arguing for tolerance.

Sounds like a whole lot of persecuting going on.
 
#70
#70
volinbham said:
Certainly polygamists are subject to worse consequences from their actions than gays.

Of the two, I think imprisonment or criminal prosecution for polygamy is much closer to persecution.

So under your view anyone not supporting gay marriage or polygamy is persecuting those parties.

I suppose if a gay person supported gay marriage but not polygamy then they are persecuting polygamists all while arguing for tolerance.

Sounds like a whole lot of persecuting going on.
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In a word: ya.

One is enabling, tolerating, etc. persecution by not supporting the ability of consenting adults to have equal legal status and options.
 
#71
#71
IPorange said:
In a word: ya.

One is enabling, tolerating, etc. persecution by not supporting the ability of consenting adults to have equal legal status and options.
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I think we are seriously dumbing down the word in this case.

It's already happened to racism.

You in effect are saying Obama (and anyone else not supporting gay marriage) is persecuting gay people.

Accusing someone of persecution is a pretty big deal; or it use to be. Now about 1/2 the country is persecuting gay people. Must be the new in thing.
 
#72
#72
I just object to the level we've reached in debate - rather than debate positions we label our opponents.

Call for welfare reform? = racist (for some reason)
Don't favor abortion? = sexist (we saw this in another thread)
Don't favor gay marriage = homophobe who is persecuting gays
Suggest government should have bigger role in HC = socialist/communist/marxist

Drives me nuts.

[/rant]

Good night VN - sorry to take the Pub all political.
 
#73
#73
Agreed vibham... Especially the last one. If I had a nickel for every time I talked to/heard that talked about socialist/communist/marxist and I was 99.9% sure they had no idea what they were talking about, I would be one wealthy bourgeoisie capitalist pig.
 
#74
#74
volinbham said:
I think we are seriously dumbing down the word in this case.

It's already happened to racism.

You in effect are saying Obama (and anyone else not supporting gay marriage) is persecuting gay people.

Accusing someone of persecution is a pretty big deal; or it use to be. Now about 1/2 the country is persecuting gay people. Must be the new in thing.
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They're complicit with an injustice, yes. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you, but it is what it is.

And it IS a big deal. If you aren't trying to improve the situation and support progress, you are part of the problem.

Don't pretend like there isn't a high degree of homophobia and bigotry surrounding this debate. I've read the word "******" 3 times on this forum in the last 24 hours, each time not one person protested, no mod intervened and said anything, nothing. Yet, "******" is widely regarded as unacceptable. To me, the words are equally hateful and unacceptable.

A large portion of America are homophobic at the least and bigoted at the most. That is a large part of what is feeding the anti-gay marriage, anti-gay agenda. Call me a LG or whatever, but it's the truth if people even on this forum are honest about it.
 
#75
#75
Report it if you see it. Irks me to see people called that just as much as it does the n-word. Equally banable IMO.
 
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