Atlanta Braves II

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#5,577
#5,577
theyre not out yet, id rather be up 2 1/2 then down 2 1/2. Just win this series and next, and hope the muts pull a few upsets
 
#5,578
#5,578
Biggest game of the year, and we have a 21 year old who isn't even suppose to be starting this year and spend next year in Triple A.

Just awesome.
 
#5,579
#5,579
I hope the Braves see the clip that ESPN has been running of Larussa being interviewed at the same time as the Infante walk-off. They need to hear the Cardinals reaction in the background. Perhaps that will snap them out of this funk.
 
#5,585
#5,585
zjcvols said:
Biggest game of the year, and we have a 21 year old who isn't even suppose to be starting this year and spend next year in Triple A.

Just awesome.
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It's amazing what Derek Lowe's disastrous 2nd half and injuries have done to the starting pitching the last 2 months vs. the first half. It's literally Hudson followed by a cast of 5th starters.
 
#5,587
#5,587
GAVol said:
It's amazing what Derek Lowe's disastrous 2nd half and injuries have done to the starting pitching the last 2 months vs. the first half. It's literally Hudson followed by a cast of 5th starters.
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I knew the injuries to Hanson and JJ would kill us in the playoffs. But they are killing us right now and neither one is going to pitch until a playoff spot is clinched...which isn't looking good.

THe playoff rotation is either going to have two rookies, or a 5 ERA guy in there.

It's bad right now. BAD.
 
#5,588
#5,588
There aren't many teams that can absorb the loss of two of their top three starters in September. Wren gets a huge demerit for counting on Lowe, because it's been obvious for two years that he wasn't going to be somebody you could depend on, but there's really nothing that a GM can do to hedge against simultaneously losing two guys like Jurrjens and Hanson late in the year. It's just a bad break.

One thing which I'd love to read about is how different the atmosphere in that clubhouse is this year. For 20 years we've heard about how the best thing about Bobby was his steadying influence on the team, not letting them get too up or down. Interesting that the first year Bobby's gone, boom, there's a huge collapse.
 
#5,589
#5,589
Vercingetorix said:
There aren't many teams that can absorb the loss of two of their top three starters in September. Wren gets a huge demerit for counting on Lowe, because it's been obvious for two years that he wasn't going to be somebody you could depend on, but there's really nothing that a GM can do to hedge against simultaneously losing two guys like Jurrjens and Hanson late in the year. It's just a bad.

One thing which I'd love to read about is how different the atmosphere in that clubhouse is this year. For 20 years we've heard about how the best thing about Bobby was his steadying influence on the team, not letting them get too up or down. Interesting that the first year Bobby's gone, boom, there's a huge collapse.
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Hardly the first time it's happened. Did the same collapse two years ago, though they weren't the wild card leaders. Had a decent shot at the playoffs in '09, but fell apart down the stretch.
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#5,590
#5,590
Vercingetorix said:
There aren't many teams that can absorb the loss of two of their top three starters in September. Wren gets a huge demerit for counting on Lowe, because it's been obvious for two years that he wasn't going to be somebody you could depend on, but there's really nothing that a GM can do to hedge against simultaneously losing two guys like Jurrjens and Hanson late in the year. It's just a bad break.

One thing which I'd love to read about is how different the atmosphere in that clubhouse is this year. For 20 years we've heard about how the best thing about Bobby was his steadying influence on the team, not letting them get too up or down. Interesting that the first year Bobby's gone, boom, there's a huge collapse.
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I miss Bobby.
 
#5,591
#5,591
Regulator said:
Hardly the first time it's happened. Did the same collapse two years ago, though they weren't the wild card leaders. Had a decent shot at the playoffs in '09, but fell apart down the stretch.
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What's unfolding this year would be a choke job two orders of magnitude worse than what happened in 2009. That was a mediocre team that didn't expect to contend and never got closer than two games to the WC; this is a team which had designs on going deep in the playoffs and which had an 8 game lead in the WC for most of the year. Two weeks ago, Baseball Prospectus had Atlanta with a 98 percent chance of making the playoffs. Today it's 80.
 
#5,592
#5,592
Vercingetorix said:
What's unfolding this year would be a choke job two orders of magnitude worse than what happened in 2009. That was a mediocre team that didn't expect to contend and never got closer than two games to the WC; this is a team which had designs on going deep in the playoffs and which had an 8 game lead in the WC for most of the year. Two weeks ago, Baseball Prospectus had Atlanta with a 98 percent chance of making the playoffs. Today it's 80.
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I agree that this is much worse than '09. But I think the gist of your initial comment was to try and pin this on Fredi Gonzalez, which would be unfair, IMO. The Red Sox are in the midst of a bigger collapse than the Braves. Nobody us questioning Terry Francona's managerial skills.
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#5,593
#5,593
Regulator said:
I agree that this is much worse than '09. But I think the gist of your initial comment was to try and pin this on Fredi Gonzalez, which would be unfair, IMO. The Red Sox are in the midst of a bigger collapse than the Braves. Nobody us questioning Terry Francona's managerial skills.
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While I do in general think that Fredi Gonzalez is an idiot and a terrible manager, I'm not directly blaming the collapse on him. Because managers don't matter that much. (Terry Francona: idiot with the Phillies, great with the Red Sox. Torre: idiot with the Braves and Mets, great with the Yankees, then idiot again with the Dodgers once the team's finances started collapsing. Funny how payroll walks hand in hand with managerial "skill," isn't it?)

I'm mostly interested in what this potentially means retroactively about Bobby Cox, another indifferent tactical manager who owes his reputation to having a rotation full of Hall of Famers for most of his tenure. We always heard that Bobby's greatest skill was managing the clubhouse, keeping the team harmonious and on an even keel. Not too high, not too low. As someone who's always believed that, generally speaking, the difference between a good Strat-O-Matic player and a HOF manager would be, say, two or three wins a year at most, I always regarded that claim with a great deal of skepticism. I'm wondering whether what we're seeing this year indicates that maybe what they said about Bobby's clubhouse was true after all.
 
#5,594
#5,594
I hate the Cardinals worse than any other team in the league. If we do choke this away, I will NEVER hear the end of it from some friends of mine. I think that Kimbrel is tired and what we need to do is win these next 5 or 6 games by over 3 runs so we can rest the back end of our pen. I really hope this doesn't keep up because I will fall into hibernation if we choke this one away
 
#5,595
#5,595
Vercingetorix said:
While I do in general think that Fredi Gonzalez is an idiot and a terrible manager, I'm not directly blaming the collapse on him. Because managers don't matter that much. (Terry Francona: idiot with the Phillies, great with the Red Sox. Torre: idiot with the Braves and Mets, great with the Yankees, then idiot again with the Dodgers once the team's finances started collapsing. Funny how payroll walks hand in hand with managerial "skill," isn't it?)

I'm mostly interested in what this potentially means retroactively about Bobby Cox, another indifferent tactical manager who owes his reputation to having a rotation full of Hall of Famers for most of his tenure. We always heard that Bobby's greatest skill was managing the clubhouse, keeping the team harmonious and on an even keel. Not too high, not too low. As someone who's always believed that, generally speaking, the difference between a good Strat-O-Matic player and a HOF manager would be, say, two or three wins a year at most, I always regarded that claim with a great deal of skepticism. I'm wondering whether what we're seeing this year indicates that maybe what they said about Bobby's clubhouse was true after all.
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IMO, Bobby's greatest skill was that he treated everyone like men, and kept rules to a minimum. I heard many former players say his basic rules were: be on time, no music in the clubhouse, and play the game with respect (hustle). Other than an occasional Gary Sheffield or Yunel Escobar type, most Braves players all fell in the same mold. Weren't many egos to massage or prima donnas to cater too.
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#5,596
#5,596
Vercingetorix said:
While I do in general think that Fredi Gonzalez is an idiot and a terrible manager, I'm not directly blaming the collapse on him. Because managers don't matter that much. (Terry Francona: idiot with the Phillies, great with the Red Sox. Torre: idiot with the Braves and Mets, great with the Yankees, then idiot again with the Dodgers once the team's finances started collapsing. Funny how payroll walks hand in hand with managerial "skill," isn't it?)

I'm mostly interested in what this potentially means retroactively about Bobby Cox, another indifferent tactical manager who owes his reputation to having a rotation full of Hall of Famers for most of his tenure. We always heard that Bobby's greatest skill was managing the clubhouse, keeping the team harmonious and on an even keel. Not too high, not too low. As someone who's always believed that, generally speaking, the difference between a good Strat-O-Matic player and a HOF manager would be, say, two or three wins a year at most, I always regarded that claim with a great deal of skepticism. I'm wondering whether what we're seeing this year indicates that maybe what they said about Bobby's clubhouse was true after all.
Click to expand...

In all fairness before you bury and throw dirt on Bobby Cox, he was the GM that drafted Glavine and traded for Smoltz.
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#5,597
#5,597
Chipper with an in-clubhouse "guarantee" of a win tonight. Seconded by McCann.

We'll see.
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#5,600
#5,600
Delgado is showing major guts tonight. The more I watch him pitch, the more I like him.
 
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