Atlanta Braves II

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#6,751
#6,751
Will Derek Lowe improve at Cleveland? How will this trade help the Braves? They do need young arms but experience too.
 
#6,752
#6,752
Not sure of the answer to that, but I've been in Space Coast area for the past two springs.
 
#6,753
#6,753
volville said:
Hopefully that money is spent and not just pocketed.
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Last time a significant amount of money came off the books, most of it wasn't replaced. The payroll just went down.

The Braves have developed an institutional belief that you don't generally get good value in the free agent market. Schuerholz used to talk about this some; Wren has been even more vocal about it since taking over. They've come to think of the free agent market as a supplemental way of temporarily plugging holes in the roster, not something you should use to build your team.

In general, they're right. The Braves got a year and a half of Michael Bourn for basically nothing by trading for him. Some other team is going to get four or five years of him (including a couple of years when his speed will probably be declining) for an insane amount of guaranteed money because they'll get him on the FA market. Signing quality free agents is like buying a stereo at a high-end audio store instead of looking on Amazon.

Unfortunately the Braves have come to this philosophy not just because it's smart, but mostly because they're cheap. And they've pushed it far enough that they no longer really look for anybody significant on the FA market. This is a team which has a serious chance to win a WS in the next couple of years, but they desperately need to add another big bat. And no matter what happens with the payroll in the next few offseasons, they're not going to just go out and sign one like the teams that are serious about winning would.
 
#6,754
#6,754
Vercingetorix said:
Last time a significant amount of money came off the books, most of it wasn't replaced. The payroll just went down.

The Braves have developed an institutional belief that you don't generally get good value in the free agent market. Schuerholz used to talk about this some; Wren has been even more vocal about it since taking over. They've come to think of the free agent market as a supplemental way of temporarily plugging holes in the roster, not something you should use to build your team.

In general, they're right. The Braves got a year and a half of Michael Bourn for basically nothing by trading for him. Some other team is going to get four or five years of him (including a couple of years when his speed will probably be declining) for an insane amount of guaranteed money because they'll get him on the FA market. Signing quality free agents is like buying a stereo at a high-end audio store instead of looking on Amazon.

Unfortunately the Braves have come to this philosophy not just because it's smart, but mostly because they're cheap. And they've pushed it far enough that they no longer really look for anybody significant on the FA market. This is a team which has a serious chance to win a WS in the next couple of years, but they desperately need to add another big bat. And no matter what happens with the payroll in the next few offseasons, they're not going to just go out and sign one like the teams that are serious about winning would.
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I get tired of us TRADING for 5 million dollar players that aren't much better than our youngsters. Save this $ and spend it on a big gun/bat --someone you know is among the best players in the game. Greg Maddux's don't grow on trees, but when there are can't miss guys on the market they are absolutely worth it. Just stop trading for the McClouths, Ankiels and Lowes of the world who are no guarantee to be better than a youngster from AAA and AA.
 
#6,755
#6,755
WesternKyVol said:
Just stop trading for the McClouths, Ankiels and Lowes of the world who are no guarantee to be better than a youngster from AAA and AA.
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If that's the standard, they might as well never make a trade.

I'd say the deals for Dan Uggla and Michael Bourne are looking pretty good.
 
#6,756
#6,756
GAVol said:
If that's the standard, they might as well never make a trade.

I'd say the deals for Dan Uggla and Michael Bourne are looking pretty good.
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The Uggla trade is interesting because of the extension, which is really out of character for the the Liberty-owned Braves. Be curious to know what Wren thinks about that four-year commitment now after the up-and-down season Uggla had last year.
 
#6,758
#6,758
Interesting.

Braves willing to trade Jurrjens and Prado Bowman's Blog

Jurrjens is an easy one, given the Braves' pitching depth and Jurrjens's Boras problem. I wouldn't exactly be eager to trade him, but I would certainly want to hear what other teams might want to offer. Prado is interesting. If you move him, then you've got two questions to answer by March: who's the full-time LF, and who's going to play 3B at least 40 times this year?
 
#6,759
#6,759
Vercingetorix said:
Interesting.

Braves willing to trade Jurrjens and Prado Bowman's Blog

Jurrjens is an easy one, given the Braves' pitching depth and Jurrjens's Boras problem. I wouldn't exactly be eager to trade him, but I would certainly want to hear what other teams might want to offer. Prado is interesting. If you move him, then you've got two questions to answer by March: who's the full-time LF, and who's going to play 3B at least 40 times this year?
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A few thoughts here:

1. JJ should not be traded unless Tommy Hanson is 100% healthy and 100% ready to go. Only if.

2. Hinske can play third. But if the Braves decide to trade Prado, they have to upgrade their bench and get a RH bat who can play third.

3. Wil Meyers is worth both of them. Kid has superstar potential and is right handed. But the Braves would have to get someone to fill in till he's ready.

4. And I think that player is B.J. Upton. He screams "Carlos Beltran 2004" all over again. Good play and explodes playing for a team that wants him in a contract year. He hit 23 homers and had a .330 OBP. That is someone Atlanta could use.
 
#6,761
#6,761
If the offer were right, I'd be willing to trade Jurrjens regardless of Hanson's status. One the one hand, this is the time to move him if you still want to get great value for him [1]; on the other, the Boras problem means that you definitely want to flip him for value before his expiration date. There's enough highly regarded and semi-proven young pitching behind him that I think you can make the move regardless of where Hanson is.


[1] Since his breakout 2009 season, where he led the league in starts at age 23, he's had two years where he couldn't pitch the whole season. One year was pretty crappy and the other ended with a long stretch of ineffectiveness and injury. He's probably got a better than even chance of making the drive over to Birmingham to see the Grim Reaper in the next year or or two. If I could get any kind of legitimate value for him, I'd trade him now rather than risk seeing his value collapse.
 
#6,764
#6,764
dhendri said:
Any speculation for whom? The only Royal I can even name is Frenchy.
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The Braves have told some teams they would be willing to move Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado in a trade, a Major League source tells MLB.com's Mark Bowman. Atlanta is known to be looking for a power-hitting outfielder and possibly a new shortstop, so either could be acquired in a Jurrjens/Prado trade, or at the very least the Braves could pick up some salary relief --- both Jurrjens and Prado are arbitration-eligible for the second time this winter.

The Braves and Royals have already discussed a Jurrjens trade, and the Braves have an interest in minor league outfielders Lorenzo Cain and Wil Myers, amongst several other prospects in K.C.'s deep farm system. The Royals are known to be targeting veteran starting pitching on the trade market this winter so the two sides would seem like a fit as trading partners. As Bowman notes, Cain could be seen by the Braves as a future center field option if Michael Bourn isn't signed to an extension.
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#6,771
#6,771
Royals traded Melky for Jonathon Sanchez today. They have also said they won't trade Wil Myers, so the Royals may be off Jurrjens. Bummer, Dayton Moore is a moron, would be easy to fleece him.
 
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