Atlanta Braves II

[005]

They were a serious contender last year?

But what moves? Jw

 

[Vercingetorix]

They weren't a serious contender last year. The lineup sucked too much for them to have serious designs on playing deep into October.

And the lineup is still a house of cards. Both corner outfielders had awful years last year; they both have to rebound. Chipper has to play well and stay healthy, because otherwise you've got to pull Prado in and then you've got shiat out in LF. SS is essentially unmanned if a 22-year-old can't make the jump from basically AA.

The Braves desperately needed to acquire a bat to back up Chipper, either directly at 3B or indirectly in LF. They needed to do something at SS other than assume Pastornicky can handle it. That's two moves: find a guy who can hit and credibly play both corner outfield spots; find a guy who can credibly play both SS and 3B. Two veterans to back up four question marks. Instead they did nothing, and now almost everything has to go right for this team to be a serious contender. And what are the odds of that?

 

[005]

My main argument is... you were serious contenders. You were what, 1 game away from getting in the dance? And once you're in, anybody can win it. Anybody. But I do get your point about this year.

There are definite holes. I dunno who exactly y'all would get to fill them.

 

[TBrown]

My main argument is... you were serious contenders. You were what, 1 game away from getting in the dance? And once you're in, anybody can win it. Anybody. But I do get your point about this year.

There are definite holes. I dunno who exactly y'all would get to fill them.

One game shy of the dance after going 10-20 to close. Braves were easily the second best team in the NL to me.

I understand concerns over the lack of moves I guess, but did you not pay attention to the SS market this off-season? All multi-year and drastically overpaid deals. It was clear from the beginning the braves weren't going multi-year. Anyone can replace alex Gonzalez.

 

[005]

The only very real option at shortstop would have been if they got Marco scutaro from the red sox in that odd little deal.

The braves need a lot to go right to win... so does everyone else.

 

[GAVol]

Call me a sunshine pumper, but I think a full year of Michael Borne and the law of averages working for Heyward makes the offense a lot better than last year. And the addition by subtraction on the pitching staff means not having to keep running a starter out there due to his price tag and reputation.

 

[underscore]

I imagine that Prado, unless he just comes out tearing the cover off the ball, will be doing a little platoon action with Constanza in left and playing third if and when needed.

I am optimist as well. And I sorta fancy a 1-2 of Bourn and Constanza.

 

[TBrown]

Call me a sunshine pumper, but I think a full year of Michael Borne and the law of averages working for Heyward makes the offense a lot better than last year. And the addition by subtraction on the pitching staff means not having to keep running a starter out there due to his price tag and reputation.

Agree with the law averages across the board. I think heyward will be closer to what we think he is than what he was last year. However I don't think Bourn is as good as people are making him out to be.

Constanza? Please. Not the answer to any question besides who should pinch run for Mac in the 9th.

 

[OrangeWilly]

I imagine that Prado, unless he just comes out tearing the cover off the ball, will be doing a little platoon action with Constanza in left and playing third if and when needed.

I am optimist as well. And I sorta fancy a 1-2 of Bourn and Constanza.

If Prado is platooning with Constanza....we have big, big problems.

 

[GAVol]

I imagine that Prado, unless he just comes out tearing the cover off the ball, will be doing a little platoon action with Constanza in left and playing third if and when needed.

I am optimist as well. And I sorta fancy a 1-2 of Bourn and Constanza.

Any lineup with Constanza hitting above 7th means somebody is either hurt or in a deeeeeeeep slump.

 

[GAVol]

Agree with the law averages across the board. I think heyward will be closer to what we think he is than what he was last year. However I don't think Bourn is as good as people are making him out to be.

Constanza? Please. Not the answer to any question besides who should pinch run for Mac in the 9th.

Whatever you think of Bourne, he's light years better than the Schaefer/Prado/Heyward/insert name here slop the Braves had leading off for the first 4 months of last year.

 

[Regulator]

Prado wasn't comfortable in the 2 hole behind Bourn last season. I know it takes some adjustments to hit behind a true leadoff hitter/stolen base threat. Prado struggled with that last year, albeit with no time to get acclimated to a different plate approach. He tempered his natural aggression to give Bourn opportunities to steal bases, and often wound up behind in the count. If he can't show some improvement in that this spring, I'd hope to see Chipper hitting in the 2 hole.

 

[GAVol]

It may have been his approach early on, but that staph infection absolutely buried him last year.

 

[TBrown]

Whatever you think of Bourne, he's light years better than the Schaefer/Prado/Heyward/insert name here slop the Braves had leading off for the first 4 months of last year.

I agree with that for sure. I just don't think people realize Bourn is a .270 hitter who had a career year last year.

 

[GAVol]

I agree with that for sure. I just don't think people realize Bourn is a .270 hitter who had a career year last year.

If you look at his OBP's the past 3 years though, it wasn't really that much of an anomaly.

 

[zjcvols]

One game shy of the dance after going 10-20 to close. Braves were easily the second best team in the NL to me.

I understand concerns over the lack of moves I guess, but did you not pay attention to the SS market this off-season? All multi-year and drastically overpaid deals. It was clear from the beginning the braves weren't going multi-year. Anyone can replace alex Gonzalez.

We should have got Jed Lowrie. I'm disappointed with Wren on that one.

But, to me, it's obvious Wren didn't have much money to spend. AT ALL.

I like the roster. Love that we didn't trade any of our young pitching. And I do think Wren has a point that if Heyward is 100% (as he seems to be), that's basically a big pickup right there.

But I still think we should have gone after Jed Lowrie and B.J. Upton. JMO.

 

[slh1089]

It may have been his approach early on, but that staph infection absolutely buried him last year.

This. I am not really sure why people keep on ignoring that. It played a huge role in his off year. This team can be deadly when every plays around what they are expected. At one point they had one of the top 4 records in the majors if I am not mistaken. I think management made a great decision in keeping the young pitching together. So if you add in Medlen coming back, a healthy Prado and a full year with Bourne I believe you can call this team improved. A team that was one game away from the playoffs.

 

[Vercingetorix]

This. I am not really sure why people keep on ignoring that. It played a huge role in his off year. This team can be deadly when every plays around what they are expected. At one point they had one of the top 4 records in the majors if I am not mistaken. I think management made a great decision in keeping the young pitching together. So if you add in Medlen coming back, a healthy Prado and a full year with Bourne I believe you can call this team improved. A team that was one game away from the playoffs.

Well, that's the key, isn't it? If Chipper stays healthy and hits, and if Prado returns to form, and if Heyward turns it around, then the lineup will score enough runs. If if if. Teams that are serious about winning have a backup plan.

The 3B is 40 years old and has played 140 games only once in the last 8 years. The backup 3B is the starting LF. The backup LF is a career minor leaguer. The only way to handle a player like Chipper on the roster is to set things up that anything you get out of him is a bonus, and it doesn't throw the whole lineup into flux if he misses two months or sucks or both. Wren hasn't done anything to address that at all.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Any lineup with Constanza hitting above 7th means somebody is either hurt or in a deeeeeeeep slump.

Fredi does not understand baseball well enough to understand that a player like Constanza has to be buried at the bottom of the lineup. He has an 80s mentality where the fast guys go at the top of the order regardless of whether they can actually get on base or not.

 

[slh1089]

Well, that's the key, isn't it? If Chipper stays healthy and hits, and if Prado returns to form, and if Heyward turns it around, then the lineup will score enough runs. If if if. Teams that are serious about winning have a backup plan.

The 3B is 40 years old and has played 140 games only once in the last 8 years. The backup 3B is the starting LF. The backup LF is a career minor leaguer. The only way to handle a player like Chipper on the roster is to set things up that anything you get out of him is a bonus, and it doesn't throw the whole lineup into flux if he misses two months or sucks or both. Wren hasn't done anything to address that at all.

Yes, but they were basically in the playoffs with Chipper being hurt for sometime, Uggla being hot cold, Prado being hurt, Heyward being hurt, Medlen not playing at all, with Gonzo at shortstop, without Jurjens, without Hansen for a good period of time. So yes, I see a lot of upside this coming year.

Edit: We also have Matt Diaz to help in left field. AND Derrick Lowe gone.

 

[TBrown]

I don't have a problem with Upton or Lowrie but what do you suppose we give up?

There just wasn't a match there.

We should have got Jed Lowrie. I'm disappointed with Wren on that one.

But, to me, it's obvious Wren didn't have much money to spend. AT ALL.

I like the roster. Love that we didn't trade any of our young pitching. And I do think Wren has a point that if Heyward is 100% (as he seems to be), that's basically a big pickup right there.

But I still think we should have gone after Jed Lowrie and B.J. Upton. JMO.

 

[TBrown]

Wilson is out until at least mid-April.. Lookin good at SS

 

[zjcvols]

I don't have a problem with Upton or Lowrie but what do you suppose we give up?

There just wasn't a match there.

Lowrie could have been had pretty easily, especially with Boston's lack of pitching. They only got a middle reliever out it.

Upton would have been harder because Tampa needs position players in their system, and all we have are pitchers.

 

[zjcvols]

Atlanta Braves' Brian McCann much more than just 'offensive catcher' | braves.com: News

Bowman makes the case as Mac as the best catcher in baseball (which I fully agree with).

 

[Vercingetorix]

Yes, but they were basically in the playoffs with Chipper being hurt for sometime, Uggla being hot cold, Prado being hurt, Heyward being hurt, Medlen not playing at all, with Gonzo at shortstop, without Jurjens, without Hansen for a good period of time. So yes, I see a lot of upside this coming year.

Edit: We also have Matt Diaz to help in left field. AND Derrick Lowe gone.

Chipper is just as likely (maybe more likely) to hit .260 and miss 50 games as he is to be productive. Freeman is likely to endure some kind of a sophomore slump. Either Prado or Heyward is likely not to rebound like the Braves would expect. The SS is likely to be an out machine after basically making a jump from AA.

My point isn't that the Braves won't be competitive; they've got a nice team with, as you say, a lot of upside. My complaint is that there's a lot of predictable risk with this lineup, and the Braves haven't done anything to prepare for it. They're counting on "upside" at over half the positions in the field. A team that's serious about winning looks at this lineup and knows that it has to go into the season with better guys on the bench than stiffs like Matt Diaz and Jose Constanza.