Atlanta Braves II

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#9,626
#9,626
Vercingetorix said:
If I had even one time in recent years seen Chipper go through a long protracted period where he tried to play through an injury, struggle to hit .200, and eventually have to give up and go on the DL, I'd probably look at him totally differently. But that's not what he does. Apparently he just shows up to the ballpark, takes BP, and if he's not feeling it, he doesn't play. And then he sees the next night. And then maybe he's feeling better the next night, and he's back in the lineup, and boom, he gets three hits and Joe Simpson explodes on the broadcast console. Why didn't he try to go the night before when maybe he'd only get one hit? Why can't he play through anything?



He wasn't consistently in the lineup when he was 32, or 33, or 34, or 35, or 36, or 37, or 38, or 39, or now that he's 40. I don't get how at some point that doesn't start to define him. He's a great player -- the best Braves position player of my lifetime -- but he's been done for awhile. It's past time to move on.

See, it's not either/or, and when it's not your childhood hero, you won't see it that way either. You see the whole player. It's been all business with me since August 3, 1990. It'll be that way with you soon.
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Again, it's his body. Have you seen him run the last few years? He's looked bad. It might be that big of a struggle.

Yeah, I don't doubt it's not part of his legacy. Incredible player, yet he struggled with injuries. Yeah, he probably should have retired after 2009. But guess what? It's hard to A) Pass up $26M. B) Stop playing the game you love. C) Say no when the team keeps asking you back. D) It's not my career.

Yeah, he is my "childhood hero" (though I've understood most of my childhood that athletes are humans and highly likeable to screw up). I also know what he has mean to the organization and Braves fans under 25. I'm a Braves fan because of Chipper Jones. So yeah, it is personal. But it's not as bad as you make it out to be. If he was making $4-5M is this a big deal to you? Probably not. Blame the idiot Brave organization.
 
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#9,627
#9,627
zjcvols said:
LOL at this:

Last five years for two players:

A) .303/.403/.507 125 games per year

B) .236/.304/.388 101 games per year

Player A is Chipper Jones. Player B is Dale Murphy.

Now...which player looks like he should have retired earlier?
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See, that's it. Murph spent most of those five years A) playing for the Phillies and the Rockies, and B) eating far less than 10 percent of his team's payroll. He didn't cripple any potential playoff teams because he could figure out when to hang it up. Chipper's dogged insistence on playing the contract all the way out probably A) cost the Braves a playoff spot in 2011, and B) gave the Giants a WS championship in 2010. Awesome.
 
#9,628
#9,628
Vercingetorix said:
See, that's it. Murph spent most of those five years A) playing for the Phillies and the Rockies, and B) eating far less than 10 percent of his team's payroll. He didn't cripple any potential playoff teams because he could figure out when to hang it up. Chipper's dogged insistence on playing the contract all the way out probably A) cost the Braves a playoff spot in 2011, and B) gave the Giants a WS championship in 2010. Awesome.
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Who gave the contract to Chipper again? The Braves.

Again, it's his career. The Braves have allowed him to do this. He has every right to take this. Would you be turning down being able to play the game you love while making $13M a year trying to get one last ring to cement your career? I know I wouldn't.
 
#9,629
#9,629
zjcvols said:
Again, it's his body. Have you seen him run the last few years? He's looked bad. It might be that big of a struggle.
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THEN RETIRE. If you can't get on stage, it doesn't matter how good you still are. I don't know if it's true or not, but when I was a kid the story was that Ace Frehley had to drop out of KISS because he had a medical condition that meant he couldn't ride on an airplane anymore, which meant he couldn't tour, which meant he couldn't be in the band. Chipper can still hit the hell out of the baseball, but he's really struggling to be in the band. And the guys that have to come in when he can't go suck.

Yeah, I don't doubt it's not part of his legacy. Incredible player, yet he struggled with injuries. Yeah, he probably should have retired after 2009. But guess what? It's hard to A) Pass up $26M. B) Stop playing the game you love. C) Say no when the team keeps asking you back. D) It's not my career.

Yeah, he is my "childhood hero" (though I've understood most of my childhood that athletes are humans and highly likeable to screw up). I also know what he has mean to the organization and Braves fans under 25. I'm a Braves fan because of Chipper Jones. So yeah, it is personal. But it's not as bad as you make it out to be. If he was making $4-5M is this a big deal to you? Probably not. Blame the idiot Brave organization.
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Had he been able to flip his late career into being sort of a Great Switch-Hitting Bat Emeritus off the bench, a guy that starts two or three times a week at 3B and LF and pinch hits a couple more, then I don't know that I'd care what his residual contract looked like. He'd be great in that role. The problem is that the Braves are still counting on him, roster-wise, to be a starter. And I think that's both their faults.

As I said above, I'd feel a lot less snarky toward Mr Jones if I'd ever once seen him try to grit his way through an injury and been obviously unable to handle it. But that's not what he's done. He hits great, then he sits out a few games, then he hits great again. It makes you wonder how many hits he's leaving on the table in between just because he's not feeling 100 (or 90 or 70 or 50 or whatever his threshold is) percent.
 
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#9,630
#9,630
zjcvols said:
Who gave the contract to Chipper again? The Braves.

Again, it's his career. The Braves have allowed him to do this. He has every right to take this. Would you be turning down being able to play the game you love while making $13M a year trying to get one last ring to cement your career? I know I wouldn't.
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I feel pretty sure that if A) I had been out of the lineup as much has Chipper has been in the last 10 years and B) I had already made $150 million dollars playing baseball, as Chipper has, then I would probably be self-aware enough to say to the Braves: We all know I ain't starting 140 games at 3B. Let's figure out some other way that I can contribute.

Uh, I guess the dude destroyed his marriage by knocking up a Hooters waitress. It's nonsensical to even talk about self-awareness for a guy like that.
 
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#9,631
#9,631
Vercingetorix said:
I feel pretty sure that if A) I had been out of the lineup as much has Chipper has been in the last 10 years and B) I had already made $150 million dollars playing baseball, as Chipper has, then I would probably be self-aware enough to say to the Braves: We all know I ain't starting 140 games at 3B. Let's figure out some other way that I can contribute.

Uh, I guess the dude destroyed his marriage by knocking up a Hooters waitress. It's nonsensical to even talk about self-awareness for a guy like that.
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Was this hooters waitress your girlfriend or something? What about the clutch RBI that Chipper has had that has lead to wins in this young season already? Also, so you would rather have a player put himself in the lineup when he knows he will not be able to produce? Out of curiosity what is your list of players that you think the braves would have been able to buy if Chipper had retired before this season?
 
#9,632
#9,632
Weezy said:
I believe this argument happens once a week. I was thinking tonight once I got settled in my seat, that it would be nice to have a Chipper schedule along with the regular schedule. That way we know if we will get to see him or not.
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This is so true on all levels.
 
#9,640
#9,640
Right hand pitcher on the bump, Frediot brings in washed up righty Jack Wilson to face him. Good morning, good afternoon, goodnight. Seriously Frediot?
 
#9,643
#9,643
zjcvols said:
Yeah, he probably should have played in a few more games. Almost all baseball hitters can say that. It's also his body and we don't know what kind of pain he has been.

I'll remember Chipper as a great third basemen who helped lead Atlanta to one of the greatest runs of all time. You can choose to remember him as a baby and constantly ***** how he's not in the lineup even though he's 40 years old and has had about 7 major leg surgeries instead of appreciating the last days of one of the greatest hitters of our generation.
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Actually that has been happening for the past several seasons, just not when he's 40.
 
#9,644
#9,644
Regulator said:
One out. Nobody on base. Coming in for defense regardless. I don't have a problem with the move under those conditions.
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Make that move after pinch hitting Juan or Hinske.. Play to win first. Worry about the bench later. Basically gave them an out. Least there is a decent chance that Juan or Hinske runs into one
 
#9,645
#9,645
Scotty's Flat Top said:
Make that move after pinch hitting Juan or Hinske.. Play to win first. Worry about the bench later. Basically gave them an out. Least there is a decent chance that Juan or Hinske runs into one
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Nobody on base. Had the lead. Go for defense, save the boppers for later. May need a homer or extra-base hit later in the game.
 
#9,649
#9,649
Not until May 25-27 in Atlanta, and then again June 1-3 in DC.

Important thing in the next week is us both beating the Phils.
 
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